Troy Smith
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Posts posted by Troy Smith
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I suspect the reason it isn't available in resin is because you'd end up with more resin than styrene when you were through. Something like that could easily cost £150 or more and the potential market size is minuscule.
Jennings
Heritage/Kitsforcash do a MkIX conversion for £30
see - http://www.kitsforcash.com/spitfire-ix-conversion-kit-26-p.asp
so I can't a XIV being much more really if someone did it the same way.
cheers
T
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This is probably a silly question as I can't find the answer on the interweb but.....
I have found that Debenhams are selling Airfix 1/24 Spitfire Vb for £30.
Is there any way this kit can be converted to a mkXIV?
I've found conversions to a mkIX only.
I would love to have a 1/24 griffon engined Spit.
I also found that a company (forgot the name) was planning to release a new 1/24 mkXIV a few years ago but it didn't happen. Anyone have info as to what happened with it.
Thanks
Mark.
as in a MkXIV conversion? Not as far as i know. Ask on Large Scale Planes site.
i can send you a scan of the Peter Cooke plans, and he was making scratchbuilt 1/24 planes in the late 70's, Tempest, Sea Fury and Griffon Spitfires which won the Model Engineer show.
There was a thread here where a chap did some CAD drawings of the griffon nose/fuselage, here - http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234930585-spitfire-griffin-nose-drawings/
and there a 3-d printing place, http://www.shapeways.com/?ca=gp&ct=shapeways-3d-printing&cr=ad-29&gclid=COHQnezG77oCFaoEwwodJSkArw, which has been used by members, so if you could get the CAD work you might be able to get a nose and spinner made up.
The rest could be scratchbuilt reasonably easily.....
AFAIK, Vintage Fighter Series [VFS] did a P-40 and P-47, and planned a Spitfire XIV.
VFS are no longer in operation, but I believe that Kinetic have taken over the moulds
http://imodeler.com/2013/10/vintage-fighter-series-p-47d-thunderbolt-124/
HTH
T
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Excellent point....but between January and June this year 1400 kits were released...this takes in single figures as well as re releases. Models might not be that popular with youngsters today but the models are still being released.
The Spit Mk1 when it was released was not a youngsters kit, and I was around back then, I couldn't afford it on my pocket money, I did get a Christmas present of it one time, but even then it did not go together well. I remember a friend getting the Hurricane which was a much better kit.
However, technology and cheap labor make these kits cheaper than they were 40 years ago - taking inflation into consideration. I know we can all go on about how much change you could get out of a fiver and still get the bus home after buying such a kit but that fiver is equivalent to the £90 these days. I.
sorry. No. Not even close.
In 1976 I bought the 1/24th Airfix Hurricane, my big deal 10th birthday present, it cost £3.30
using this siter http://www.measuringworth.com/ppoweruk/
In 2012, £3.30 from 1976 is worth:
£20.10 using the retail price index
£30.40 using average earningsA quick look at Hannants shows that the retail for that kit is now £56.99
From what I can observe the stepp rise in kit prices was the late 80 and early 90's, not an era I was buying in, but from looking at old model mags and my occasional look in shops.
I also know that a Airfix Spitfire VB in 1/48th cost £1.95 in 1979 [i still have the box with price sticker]
In 2012, £1.95 from 1979 is worth:
£8.35 using the retail price index
£12.60 using average earningswhich also shows how high inflation was back in the late 70's....and that kits have gone up way more than average inflation/wages, and how much of a cash cow those old back catalogue Airfix kits are.
I'd be surprised if the actual manufature costs [bear in mind the moulds paid for themselves long ago] of a say, 1/24th Hurricane were more than £5, probably less.
Of course kits sell less from the peak days of the 60/70's.
Obviously somethings have also fallen in real terms as well.
a colour TV in the 1970's cost £400, and a 1983 NME shows BLANK videos were £15 IIRC...
I'm not saying a RRP of £90 is unreasonable for new tool 1/24th Typhoon, but note this
In 2012, £10.00 from 1976 is worth:
£60.90 using the retail price index
£92.20 using average earningswhich is 3 times the price an Airfix Hurricane was then.
hope of interest even if a little off topic.
cheers
T
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I know this might be a bit late but I picked up this kit at Telford and have just got round to taking some comprehensive sprue shots.
I hope they will be of use to modellers considering this kit as it is really impressive.
There are plenty of optional parts available to portray different fabric winged Hurricanes....
I plan to buy a couple more of these
Overall very very impressive.
One obvious glitch. 4 spoke wheels. Should be 5 spoke.
I have never seen an early Hurricane with 4 spoke wheels, that includes the early metal winged as well.
Not knocking Airfix, this detail is often missed eg Classic Airframes, Aardvard or MDC conversions, the 1/32 PCM kit got it right.
[and Italeri included 3 spoke wheels which I never seen on any Hurricane ever]
I don't 'do' 1/72 so the Sword kit may have them.
the 2nd I'd need to see the kit, but looks like they may have made the error Hasegawa did in their 148 kit, of have 'edges' to fabric covered inspection panels behind the cockpit. I really hope not. It may just be the light.
The Hasegawa error was then replicated by other companies, Classic Airframes and Pegasus... It's a hard one to fix as well
see here for pics http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234934849-classic-airframes-hurricane-worth-getting/
Airfix have got the lack of the starboard rectangular panel right [wrong on the CA kit] and the fabric covered inner wing roots [dismissed in the MDC instructions, but photo in linked thread]
One final point, regarding rewinging fabric winged hurricanes, what happened to this panel?
has anyone ever seen a photo a fabric winged Hurricane rewinged? Given the loss of Hurricanes in France, and the speed of new ones being built, would it make sense to use metal wings on an old airframe, rather than just sending it 'as is' to an OTU.
There is a pic from about 1942 of a fabric winged Hurricane in a training unit which has nosed over in Hurricane At War 2 if anyone has that to hand.
Pity it's not 1/48th is my real gripe
cheers
T
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Of all the plausible 1/24 kits a Sea Fury would really float my boat. In 1980 in Scale Models (I think) there was an article on one in that scale that was scratch built. It made such an impression that I remember it clearly 33 years later!
Will
By Peter Cooke.
Edgar knows him. He also did latemark Spitfires, a Tempest, and a Hurricane. He won the Model Engineer Trophy. There is more here in a thread somewhere.
He pioneered scratchbuilding using resin. There was an article by him about how he built them in a later Scale Models as well. he also used to sell them, they were expensive but also museum quality, bear in mind this was before the advent of commercial photo etc and resin as well.
But a 1/24th Sea Fury would be very impressive!
The Hawk would be a nice choice too, I agree. but shortly after Revells good 1:32 Hawk it would have been more risky. With the Tiffie they have no competition in the 1:32-scale (at least, none I know about... but I could be wrong). Which leads to the interesting question if 1:24 will remain a niche, or if Airfix revamped a whole new series, and other manufacturers will jump on this scale too.
Alex
Revell did a 1/32 car door Typhoon in the late 60's, which is basic but essentially accurate AFAIK.
A search on Large Scale Planes I'm sure would turn up chapter and verse on it.
cheers
T
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I think Airfix going down the 1/48 Armour is right for them as it ties in with their modern 1/48 helos/aircraft and they then do the box sets, although Tamiya seemed to push the 1/48 scale
Seems a lot of the dedecated Armour makers stick to 1/35 though
There are some very dedicated 1/48th armour modellers. And, 1/48th armour could tempt 1/48th aircraft builders to the dark side.
see here - http://www.track48.com/shop/home.php
several threads on Churchill and Centurion's in the forum.
Again, both would be ripe for multiple builds if done in a modular fashion.
As an aside, Airfix seem to be very bad at doing what hasegawa turned intoan art form, getting the maximum number of version out of a basic kit tooling, their recent 1/48th Spitfires being a good example although this Typhoon has been done to allow any commonly used version to be built
the right Airfield set would have a general purpose British truck [bedford?] , which then be picked up by the military builders.
Also, a set of 1/48th Multipose figures would also be great addition.
cheers
T
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Re-do their old 1/24 range so that they are up to modern standards in accuracy and moulding
Specifically: Spitfire, Ju87, P-51, Fw190... these kits are relics of well over a generation ago
Cool when we were kids, but pretty weak when compared to their current Mossie or even the oft overlooked Trumpeter Hurricane
1/24 is not my scale btw (1/32)
The Spitfire, bf109, actually they could be retooled, to a decent standard I think, even some additional sprues would do.
the mustang has shape issues in the nose and would be worth a new tool.
But the Ju87? in what way does that need redoing? While old it's probably the best of the old 1/24th kit, followed by the Hurricane.
Yep, they are old, but not worth retooling.
Surprising no-one has issued etch or resin for these.
Several folks here have asked for a 1/24th P-47 and P-40 B, both of which have been done in the last few years by the Vintage Fighter Company, and and now being reissued by Kinetic I believe. I know it's 'what should Airfix do in 1/24th' but AFAIK these kits were OK.
The ground crew idea is a good one, if thought through carefully, say 3 figures in coveralls done like the old multipose range would be very handy, you could just issues separate side caps and they would do for both RAF and Luftwaffe figures possibly, as coveralls are basically coveralls?
cheers
T
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Hi Steve
that's come out really well.
Here's one of the pics from Steve's original question thread here
http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234948380-hurricane-colour-question/
One point, and this goes for ALL RAF planes. Roundels NEVER overlap onto control surfaces. there is a formula for the size and positioning of them as well.
[ from memory 2/3rd out on wing, 2 inch gap from leading edge and rear of wing/control surface, I'm not going to look it up as that could take another 15 mins to find the exact reference...]
just about visible here
In the 1930's IRRC, 43 sq flying Hawker Fury's had check on their tailplanes, and with continual retouching to look immaculate, eventually they caused them to become unbalanced, after that regulations specified no painting on control surfaces, and with very few exceptions [eg rudder stripes in France] this was obeyed.
I also just noticed, the spinner has a white backplate as well.
cheers
Troy
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Remember that a lot of work had been done before Airfix's earlier bankruptcy, the costs of which presumably had therefore been written off. That said, it was before the age of computers, so data would have need to have been 'transferred' or whatever. Though I've not seen the kit, I believe the engine sprues etc are duplicated, with a further cost saving.
The legend is that the 1/24th Mosquito was planned back in the late 1970's!
One result of this research was the 1/48th Airfix Mosquito from 1979, which is still an excellent model now, the best out the original Airfix 1/48th kits from then.
[ which were Spitfire VB, Bf 109F, Hurricane I, Ju-87B, note the Hawker Fury was an upgraded tooling of an unissued Merit kit]
cheers
T
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1/48th armour sells well with Wargamers seeing as modern/urban/post apocalypse/Zombie gaming is very popular and takes less room than big Napoleonic games.
It would be neat if Airfix dipped their toe in more 1/48 armour.
Say, a classic or two British subject, a modular Churchill would be good, by modular, designed to make some different variants, bear in mind it was the basis of many 'Funnies'
also would tie with the D-day theme.
The other would be a Centurion, again, if designed well, would allow many variants, and was a widely used and successful tank, eg Korea, Israeli and Australian use.
The other would be some British airfield vehicles, like the ones they just did in 1/72nd or the old ones in 1/76th.
I know the 1/48 armour is a 'niche' but it matches the planes neatly
cheers
T
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No joke. I thought I could take the nose, radiator and canopy from the Hurricane. I'm going to do more research on this now as I think it could be a really good project for the short term.
Sorry Enzo, but no. The Hurricane bits are not really going to help.
While Hurricane bits may look useful, they won't be, the Tornado is considerably bigger. Start with a cardoor Typhoon and work from there.
Also depends which Tornado, as first flown, with revised radiator or as Centaurus test bed.
If you look at the link this thread will show
Basically the wings are 3 inches lower, so new wing roots, new belly, new nose. Lot of work to be accurate, oh, the Tornado wings were the 12 gun type too.
If you want drawings/info PM me.
cheers
Troy
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And let's not forget the 1/72 Typhoons!
I want a Hurricane and a Typhoon in 1/72 so I can build a Tornado.
Enzo
why do you need both to build a Tornado? The only Hurricane bits you could use are the exhaust pipes... and using kits for those is an expensive you to get them..... please see the link above for more info on the Tornado and how it's differs from the Typhoon..
or am I missing another joke?
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Hi
well i wonder if the AM guys will do a tornado conversion.
imagine a 1:24 vulture
that i would get an extra 1:24 typhoon for
cheers
jerry
Hi Jerry
not so simple, as this thread will show
Basically the wings are 3 inches lower, so new wing roots, new belly, new nose. Lot of work to be accurate, oh, the Tornado wings were the 12 gun type too.
I'm sure some enterprising type will do this though
cheers
T
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Hi Johan
if you want decals for a TR.33... the Israeli's flew them.
or in suez stripes?
Isradecals do a sheet of Israeli Mossie's too....
or did you want a RN plane?
cheers
T
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thanks Occa
I was not aware of the TSS desert Beaufighters, great photo.
the reproduction and colour on the IWM version looks better.
Edgar, this really does not look like DG/DE too me. I know about the vagaries of WW2 colour, but the background and roundel colours look correct. It also does not look like December!
Could this just be later in 1941?
cheers
T
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more browsing through Etienne's photo's, spotted this one, posting it up as the is a very full comment added
Hello from "The Land Down-Under" (New Zealand in this instance). A19-17 was a Beaufighter Mk.Ic, previously (T4947. Brought on RAAF strength on 4 May 1942 at No.1 AD and received a double engine change and 240-hour inspection at No.14 ARD on 15 May. Assigned to No.30 Sqdn on 18 June. Crash-landed on 8 August at Richmond when one wheel failed to extend. Crew: Pilot Sgt Col Campbell, Navigator F/Sgt Jim Yeatman (it was noted in April 2004 that Yeatman’s Logbook does not support his presence in the aircraft). To No.7 RSU 12 August, to No.31 Sqdn 25 October, based at Coomalie, NT. On 2 March 1943 A19-17, piloted by “Bluey” Armstrong, was returning to base from a cross-country exercise when Coomalie was strafed by six Zeros. Three Zeros attacked A19-17 but the escaped by heading south at full power. On 30 August A19-17 was part of a six-Beaufighter strike on Taberfane and shot down a “Pete” seaplane which had just taken off. Crew: Pilot Fg Off J.D. Entwistle, Navigator Sgt D.A. Webb. This aircraft crashed into the sea on 19 October 1943 while returning from an 8-Beaufighter raid on Trangan Aru Island. Crew: Pilot Fg Off F.H. Cridland, Navigator Plt Off R.B. De Pierres both killed. Following the attack, against a newly constructed airfield near the Taberfane seaplane base, A19-17 was seen to be lagging behind after leaving the target area. Dropping alongside A19-17, the Squdn CO (possibly Mann) saw the Navigator leaning over the slumped and obviously wounded Pilot, handling the controls. The Navigator was ordered to bail out immediately, to await rescue by a Catalina as it was impossible for him to reach the rudder pedals to stop the Beaufighter from entering a spiral dive. The Navigator refused to abandon the unconscious Pilot. Soon afterward A19-17's starboard wing dropped, and with one arm around the Pilot, the Navigator waved a final farewell. "Greater Love Hath No Man..." Lest We Forget.
Your photo shows A19-17 whilst in service with No.31 Sqdn RAAF; she wears a disruptive camouflage of (faded) Dark Green and Dark Earth, with Sky undersides. Details from several sources, mainly the ADF website and N.M. Parnell's book on Australian Beaufighter operations.
Robert.Now i know WW2 colour photos can be misleading, but is this really faded Dark Green and Dark Earth?
My knowledge of RAAF colours is basic, but, again, I though this was an interesting colour pic i'd not seen before, and perhaps of interest here.
cheers
T
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Three years of combat vs. 30 years of being the front line RAF deterrent and helping win the only major conflict the RAF was involved in since WWII?? What's "more significant" is a highly personal and highly charged question. You tell me which is more significant historically.
I hadn't even finished typing "one color scheme" than I knew someone was coming up with something to prove me wrong. But you'll note that even the black/yellow striped airplane is still DG/OG just like every other Tiffie. My point (apparently completely lost here) was that the Tiffie simply doesn't have a wide variety of possible colors and markings. Even compared to something like a Hurricane or a Spitfire, it's a one trick pony.
Hi Jennings
Tiffie schemes in non DFS are rare, but exist
eg the desert trials planes
from this thread
and Chris has info on one Tiffie stripped back to NMF post war
see here
http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234939136-post-ww2-hawker-typhoon/?hl=typhoon
using info from Chris, david womby made this model
see here http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234944194-a-quickie-post-ww2-typhoon/?hl=typhoon
The early planes with yellow ID stripes, and also with white nose are pretty eye catching too.
cheers
T
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great pic Dave.
More weathered than I thought!
Is that the tropical filter just visible on the belly? the little lump just behind the inner gear door.
I can see one of the new 1/24th Airfix Typhoon's in this scheme giving a few double take looks!
cheers
T
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Looking at Etienne Du Plessis photostream on Flickr
I noticed this , a chap says is from 235 Sq, what i noticed is apparently a Temperate Sea Scheme
a quick google reveals that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._235_Squadron_RAF
were with Coastal Command, so the TSS is not a huge surprise, but it's a new photo to me and thought worth pointing out for those wanting an option for a Beaufighter in the stash, as I've not seen this on a Beaufighter before, not that I've looked for it...
Anyone know the full serial and mark?
hope not old news
cheers
T
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Ok many thanks guys this is a good start. Clearly it's the dust I need to think about... And the affects of the sun of course. Mmm.....
HI Chris
as these were test planes, figure on them being looked after.
I'd suggest this as a weathering guide, remember exhaust stains can and are wiped off.
some sun fading of the upper surfaces, note the upper wing roundels compared to the fuselage.
HTH
T
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looking through Etienne's photostream just now I spotted this
note the almost solid sand colour on this, as well as the masked off swastika.
HTH
T
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Hi Chris
neat link from Jack G.
note the trials were from July 1943 to September 43, and as trails aircraft would be quite cared for, so they would not get to heavily weathered.
as can be seen in this pic from the link Dave posted
But for weathering, have a look at other reasonably fresh aircraft in the desert.
I suggest a browse through Etienne du Plessis flickr account of WW2 colour pic of RAF/SAAF planes, as there a fair few dest shots in there
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8270787@N07/sets/72157605269786717/detail/
HTH
T
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I'm thinking that a 'black box' kit like the one here:
http://www.oldmodelkits.com/index.php?detail=5394&page=102&soldarchive=1
Is very old mould with raised panel-lines? Am I right?
Hi Dave
it's am ex-Mania kit. Hasegawa reboxed a few of these.
Another set of Mania tooling acquired by Hasegawa, with petite raised panel lines. The tail chord is a “compromise”, as it is midway between early/broad and late/narrow!
see here for everything you ever wanted to know about Hasegawa's obsession with annoying modellers by do multiple part specific boxings rather than just bunging the lot in each box ...
http://modelingmadness.com/splfeat/kr/has48a.htm
cheers
T
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Awesome! Not my scale but kudos to Airfix for this..........beast of a kit.
Parts breakdown is interesting with a separate back end, so early and late a possibity?
Trevor
Hmm, I looked at the parts breakdown, at it seems 'over engineered' note the separtae outer lower wing and underfuselage.
Given the excellent fit of the new kits I'm being pessimistic, but be interesting to know why ths part breakdown.
the two tails had me scratching my head, but, it's for the later Tempest style tailplanes, note the different root faring on each. Does mean a lot of surplus parts.
What a beast!
Given Sir Sidney Camm's design evolutions are we likely to see a progression of Typhoon-Tempest-Sea Fury on this?
I doubt it. The real things have many simarlarites, but these are not as appliable to models.
the Tempest has an entirely new wing, and U/C, with different wing roots and a extended by 2 ft fusleage in front of cockpit, and a large fin extension
The Sea Fury uses the Tempest wing, minus centre section, with and entirely new fuselage...
I would be very upset if they did these as i might have to buy them!
I could even see myself buying a Typhoon in a year's time when initail demand has dropped off and they are available cheap briefly [like the Mosquito was] ....but where would I put it!!!!
cheers
T
Airfix 1/24 hawker Typhoon
in Aircraft WWII
Posted
Not long, late 1945 really.
Units in Germany added colour trim and spinners,
like this
photos here - http://www.184squadron.com/
other units did similar. Details in the 4th Volume of 2nd Tactical Airforce
this one
http://www.amazon.co.uk/2nd-Tactical-Air-Force-Camouflage/dp/1906537011/
cheers
T