Troy Smith

the MkI nose is 4 inches shorter than the mkII, ignoring different spinners fitted, for photos and drawings for the details of this, read this thread http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/64364-hurricane-noses-and-the-hasegawa-172-kits/page-2 The difference is hard to see from certain angles. Given the pic is lo res and a bit squashed I couldn't say if was a mk I or II, or even what spinner is fitted. cheers T

Hi Max interesting. What does RATG stand for, not one I've heard of? a google does not get me an answer. Any idea where and when the picture is from? Given the lo-res nature of the pic, it could be any mark really. it looks to have a trop filter, and is a uniform colour. Surviving Hurricanes of 6sq ended up being painted overall in aluminium dope, with anti glare panel left in camo, in 1946 in Cyprus IIRC as shon on this decal sheet illustration any use? T

HI Graham I said 501 was not part of the AASF, though I thought 85 and 87 were, they certainly were in France during the phoney war, and there is a pic in linked thread here of an 87 Sq plane with a striped rudder. [but I may be wrong and my books are in a box at the mo] this old thread has some great France era 1 Sq photos, no serials visible. http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/54350-po-moulds-hurricane-l1842-no1-squadron-france-1939 also an interesting comment from John Adams about possible use of french blue on AASF Hurricane undersides. The photos I've seen of 85 sq in France of older planes have no serials, though Allard's N2319 does. see here - http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234907653-hurricane-i-vy-cg-of-85-sqn-lille-seclin-around-apr-1940/ AFAIK it was RAF policy not to paint on control surfaces after a crash of a 43 Sq Fury in the 30's when they had checked rudder and elevators, and constant retouching to keep the paint job immaculate eventually unbalanced them, causing the practice to be banned, and I have no memory of seeing pre war Hurricanes with anything painted on the rudders. Obviously now we have the contradiction of the AASF planes with painted rudders! I presume that they must have been rebalanced afterwards, but apart this, and some stray D-day stripe painting, and late war Halifax group markings I can't think of any other examples of RAF planes with field applied paint on control surfaces. cheers T

HI Shaun, and welcome as it's your first post. without being funny or trying to lecture you, that's a LOT of questions, or perhaps that's just because of the threads I have read here on the subject! More specific questions get better answers here, try to make the thread heading a clear precise question, and you will get good answers. I hope the following gives you some ideas and pointers for this. Camo guide? for the early part of the war, try this http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fleet-Air-Camouflage-Markings-Mediterranean/dp/1905414080/ref=la_B0034Q8RYI_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1385772140&sr=1-1 The author post here under a pseudonym BTW. Part two is a work in progress, unfortunately this is a way down the line, as that's the volume I want I note you ask about US supplied planes, the short is that initially they were painted in British specified colours, but when Lend-Lease got into full swing tended to in equivalent colors, which were US paints. [note when searching to try both the UK and US spellings of color ] In the case of the Avenger, Grumman built planes in British spec, Eastern built planes in US paint. The internal colors vary depending on which plant built them as well! This then affect the British Mk number as well, Grumman = MkI, Eastern = MkII, you need a serial to get the US subtype though, but this is all out there if you ask! One tip, the search here works very well, as long as you know what you are looking for!!! I mostly use google, add britmodeller to your search term, and try that. There will be answer's to a lot of what you ask already here, buried in various threads. Also worth looking up the specifics of the kits you have, as build threads can turn up pitfall and useful tweaks, as well as colour info as well. Remember to bookmark them as it's easy to lose track though! Try the above suggestion on the Avenger, I know there are several threads here on that very subject. Also for US built planes, Hyperscale Plane Talking is very good. Hard or soft edge depends on what it is, when it was built etc etc. Try image searches on google for some general guidance, then ask more specifically. There are some excellent colour photos available if you google up 'etienne du plessis flickr' and look for the photos of RAF and SAAF aircraft set. A great resource. Also, search the IWM site, many many photos, and decent scans too. This shows you have tried to find the answer and not been lazy, and can also turn up an interesting question, that can in turn get answers and information you didn't even know you wanted to know! Model paints, do you want enamel or acrylic? Do have a preferred brand? Specific acrylics are made by Xtracrylix, and enamels by Xtracolor [both by Hannants], and White Ensign do a range too. Equivalents are in the Humbrol range, and certain colours and specific mixes are available for tamiya acrylics. Again, a more specific question will get better answers. OK, this should give some pointers. It may seem overwhelming, and it can be, as there is a phenomenal amount of intformation available if you take the time to search and ask the right questions! Except for the specifics of the navigators's position fitted in FAA Avengers from what I have read cheers T

links to a couple of threads on Sovietarplanes about the VVS 2 seat conversion [uTI] http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1020.0 http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=643.0 the plane itself hope of interest T

Hi Graham Yes, I think I misread the meaning of the original quote. Thanks for clarification. I had a look at a link on BoB film here, which led to Hyperscale, and then to this http://www.strijdbewijs.nl/top/p/hurricane.htm which has a couple of photos I'd not seen before which are relevant to this thread. Hurricane L2124, No. 501 Squadron in Villeneuve, France. presumably early 1940. If the serial is correct presumably fabric winged. Perhaps not France as no underwing roundels [specified for planes in France] and still with aluminium under nose and rear fuselage, as well as a visible serial, often painted out on AASF planes. wrecked Belgian Hurricane, caption says bombed but looks more made unservicable. Note cut out roundel from fuselage fabric, souvenir hunters, and what looks like slashed fabric at rear wing panel. hope of interest T

Hi Graham there was a thread about the BoB film in thw WWII section with a link to hyperscale has this photo. a look here, while the photos are small, all seem to be smooth and disc hubs, and look to be through the lifespan of the plane in Spanish service. http://flaps-aviation-aviacion-luftfahr.blogspot.co.uk/2011/07/hispano-aviacion-ha-1109-ha-1112-buchon.html the one shown preserved on the wiki page are the same http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispano_Aviaci%C3%B3n_HA-1112 HTH T

yep, great camo too more pics here http://kevsaviationpics.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Il-28 or how about a Finnish Target Tug think this is Egyptian? The HPH kit looks incredible though! cheers T

Hi Dave I've quoted Graham above, as he's mentioned the point ' a reference in 12 Days in May to a fabric winged replacement arriving in France, and being viewed as scraping the bottom of the barrel for replacements' as for L1932, without access to an aircraft service history, don't know. Note that in the colour photos L1936,L1937 and L1940 are visible. If L1932 had gone to France, and stayed there, I'd be surprised if rewinged. But I'd suggest having De Havilland propeller fitted as well as new exhausts [which burn out in time] the reason for this supposition is that at least one 85 sq plane still had fabric wings at Lille Seclin in May 1940, as shown here. from this thread. http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234907653-hurricane-i-vy-cg-of-85-sqn-lille-seclin-around-apr-1940 note the faded outerwing panels, don't know if the fabric faded more, or due to difference in reflectance of metal vs fabric. also of relevance to Battle of France http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234946963-hurricane-1-87-sqn-lille-seclin-france-1940/ Cockpit colour - http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/52968-hurricane-mk1-cockpit-colour/page-2?hl=hurricane#entry742480 ie mostly aluminium paint, not grey green. This is visible on the inside of the canopy framework of the science museum Hurricane walkround linked below. how do you tell a fabric from a metal wing? from the rear, if you can see the difference, as shown in the 85 sq pic above from the side, if you can see the ejector ports, fabric has a 5 slots, metal has 4, but usually tricky to see. from the front, the metal wing has the landing lights a wing bay further out compared to the fabric wing metal fabric. The apparent bare metal around the gun ports is also of note. here's one to bookmark, high res walkround of the science museum example, usefully hanging up so lots of unusual detail visible http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/mark_hayward/hurricane_mk1_l1592/ of note in this shot, the faint diagonal line from ejector port to landing light is the join of the 4 ft wide linen strips used as covering, and the jagged line of the fabric at the leading edge, which if you look carefully are triangular crenelations, from using pinking shears, this stops fabric from fraying. also note that the fabric overlaps the metal leading edge, which runs the length of the wing. The rivets are just visible. Compare the ejector slots with those just visible in the metal winged pic above as well. if you have a set of 5 spoke hubs from a spitfire kit, they are the same as used on the Hurricane, but the tyres are different. It should be possible to graft in a set of the 5 spoke hubs though. HTH T

The Skymodels sheet has very few early fabric winged options on it, looking at the pic of the sheet at Hannants, I only 2 'L' serialed planes. A word of caution, I have the 1/48th version of this, and I'd not trust all the options and the colours of the code letters is a bit off Not really much use, just maybe the Finnish plane had fabric wings, they got 12 mk I's, and IIRC 4 or 5 had fabric wings. EDIT - found this thread http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/38048-finnish-hurricanes-fabric-or-metal-wingers/ courtesy of Drdave So, the Aeromaster option is not one of these. The Romanian option doesn't. They also recieved 12 hurricanes, all metal wings but with 5 spoke wheels. The only 3 Romanian planes with fabric wings were 3 passed on by the Germans from Yugoslavia, and these retained their 3 colour Yugoslavian upper camouflage and high underside colour demarcation. Iliad Designs did a sheet in 1/48th http://www.iliad-design.com/decals/prewarhurri.html which might get scaled down to 1/72nd. I'd not be surprised if Xtradecal come up with something. A lot of pre-war/early war schemes could be made up from generic sheets, but note that early Hurricanes of the Lxxxx and Nxxxx serails had 6" high serial, not the later 8". as seen here is this rare shot of a pre war plane. From Etienne's flickr stream, since folks don't seem to follow links, i'll repost them here. Much detail can be gleaned from careful study of these, for example the overpainted yellow outer rings on the fuselage, and difference between metal and fabric on wing HTH T

this one? from Etienne's flickr, not that clear but hopefully of use.

They do, in 1/24th, included with Spitfires, Hurricanes, Mustangs and Mosquito kits. Try asking in the wanted section if anyone has a leftover one from a kit perhaps? cheers T

Not long, late 1945 really. Units in Germany added colour trim and spinners, like this photos here - http://www.184squadron.com/ other units did similar. Details in the 4th Volume of 2nd Tactical Airforce this one http://www.amazon.co.uk/2nd-Tactical-Air-Force-Camouflage/dp/1906537011/ cheers T

Jennings Heritage/Kitsforcash do a MkIX conversion for £30 see - http://www.kitsforcash.com/spitfire-ix-conversion-kit-26-p.asp so I can't a XIV being much more really if someone did it the same way. cheers T

as in a MkXIV conversion? Not as far as i know. Ask on Large Scale Planes site. i can send you a scan of the Peter Cooke plans, and he was making scratchbuilt 1/24 planes in the late 70's, Tempest, Sea Fury and Griffon Spitfires which won the Model Engineer show. There was a thread here where a chap did some CAD drawings of the griffon nose/fuselage, here - http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234930585-spitfire-griffin-nose-drawings/ and there a 3-d printing place, http://www.shapeways.com/?ca=gp&ct=shapeways-3d-printing&cr=ad-29&gclid=COHQnezG77oCFaoEwwodJSkArw, which has been used by members, so if you could get the CAD work you might be able to get a nose and spinner made up. The rest could be scratchbuilt reasonably easily..... AFAIK, Vintage Fighter Series [VFS] did a P-40 and P-47, and planned a Spitfire XIV. VFS are no longer in operation, but I believe that Kinetic have taken over the moulds http://imodeler.com/2013/10/vintage-fighter-series-p-47d-thunderbolt-124/ HTH T

sorry. No. Not even close. In 1976 I bought the 1/24th Airfix Hurricane, my big deal 10th birthday present, it cost £3.30 using this siter http://www.measuringworth.com/ppoweruk/ A quick look at Hannants shows that the retail for that kit is now £56.99 From what I can observe the stepp rise in kit prices was the late 80 and early 90's, not an era I was buying in, but from looking at old model mags and my occasional look in shops. I also know that a Airfix Spitfire VB in 1/48th cost £1.95 in 1979 [i still have the box with price sticker] which also shows how high inflation was back in the late 70's....and that kits have gone up way more than average inflation/wages, and how much of a cash cow those old back catalogue Airfix kits are. I'd be surprised if the actual manufature costs [bear in mind the moulds paid for themselves long ago] of a say, 1/24th Hurricane were more than £5, probably less. Of course kits sell less from the peak days of the 60/70's. Obviously somethings have also fallen in real terms as well. a colour TV in the 1970's cost £400, and a 1983 NME shows BLANK videos were £15 IIRC... I'm not saying a RRP of £90 is unreasonable for new tool 1/24th Typhoon, but note this which is 3 times the price an Airfix Hurricane was then. hope of interest even if a little off topic. cheers T

Overall very very impressive. One obvious glitch. 4 spoke wheels. Should be 5 spoke. I have never seen an early Hurricane with 4 spoke wheels, that includes the early metal winged as well. Not knocking Airfix, this detail is often missed eg Classic Airframes, Aardvard or MDC conversions, the 1/32 PCM kit got it right. [and Italeri included 3 spoke wheels which I never seen on any Hurricane ever] I don't 'do' 1/72 so the Sword kit may have them. the 2nd I'd need to see the kit, but looks like they may have made the error Hasegawa did in their 148 kit, of have 'edges' to fabric covered inspection panels behind the cockpit. I really hope not. It may just be the light. The Hasegawa error was then replicated by other companies, Classic Airframes and Pegasus... It's a hard one to fix as well see here for pics http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234934849-classic-airframes-hurricane-worth-getting/ Airfix have got the lack of the starboard rectangular panel right [wrong on the CA kit] and the fabric covered inner wing roots [dismissed in the MDC instructions, but photo in linked thread] One final point, regarding rewinging fabric winged hurricanes, what happened to this panel? has anyone ever seen a photo a fabric winged Hurricane rewinged? Given the loss of Hurricanes in France, and the speed of new ones being built, would it make sense to use metal wings on an old airframe, rather than just sending it 'as is' to an OTU. There is a pic from about 1942 of a fabric winged Hurricane in a training unit which has nosed over in Hurricane At War 2 if anyone has that to hand. Pity it's not 1/48th is my real gripe cheers T

By Peter Cooke. Edgar knows him. He also did latemark Spitfires, a Tempest, and a Hurricane. He won the Model Engineer Trophy. There is more here in a thread somewhere. He pioneered scratchbuilding using resin. There was an article by him about how he built them in a later Scale Models as well. he also used to sell them, they were expensive but also museum quality, bear in mind this was before the advent of commercial photo etc and resin as well. But a 1/24th Sea Fury would be very impressive! Revell did a 1/32 car door Typhoon in the late 60's, which is basic but essentially accurate AFAIK. A search on Large Scale Planes I'm sure would turn up chapter and verse on it. cheers T

There are some very dedicated 1/48th armour modellers. And, 1/48th armour could tempt 1/48th aircraft builders to the dark side. see here - http://www.track48.com/shop/home.php several threads on Churchill and Centurion's in the forum. Again, both would be ripe for multiple builds if done in a modular fashion. As an aside, Airfix seem to be very bad at doing what hasegawa turned intoan art form, getting the maximum number of version out of a basic kit tooling, their recent 1/48th Spitfires being a good example although this Typhoon has been done to allow any commonly used version to be built the right Airfield set would have a general purpose British truck [bedford?] , which then be picked up by the military builders. Also, a set of 1/48th Multipose figures would also be great addition. cheers T

The Spitfire, bf109, actually they could be retooled, to a decent standard I think, even some additional sprues would do. the mustang has shape issues in the nose and would be worth a new tool. But the Ju87? in what way does that need redoing? While old it's probably the best of the old 1/24th kit, followed by the Hurricane. Yep, they are old, but not worth retooling. Surprising no-one has issued etch or resin for these. Several folks here have asked for a 1/24th P-47 and P-40 B, both of which have been done in the last few years by the Vintage Fighter Company, and and now being reissued by Kinetic I believe. I know it's 'what should Airfix do in 1/24th' but AFAIK these kits were OK. The ground crew idea is a good one, if thought through carefully, say 3 figures in coveralls done like the old multipose range would be very handy, you could just issues separate side caps and they would do for both RAF and Luftwaffe figures possibly, as coveralls are basically coveralls? cheers T

Hi Steve that's come out really well. Here's one of the pics from Steve's original question thread here http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234948380-hurricane-colour-question/ One point, and this goes for ALL RAF planes. Roundels NEVER overlap onto control surfaces. there is a formula for the size and positioning of them as well. [ from memory 2/3rd out on wing, 2 inch gap from leading edge and rear of wing/control surface, I'm not going to look it up as that could take another 15 mins to find the exact reference...] just about visible here In the 1930's IRRC, 43 sq flying Hawker Fury's had check on their tailplanes, and with continual retouching to look immaculate, eventually they caused them to become unbalanced, after that regulations specified no painting on control surfaces, and with very few exceptions [eg rudder stripes in France] this was obeyed. I also just noticed, the spinner has a white backplate as well. cheers Troy

The legend is that the 1/24th Mosquito was planned back in the late 1970's! One result of this research was the 1/48th Airfix Mosquito from 1979, which is still an excellent model now, the best out the original Airfix 1/48th kits from then. [ which were Spitfire VB, Bf 109F, Hurricane I, Ju-87B, note the Hawker Fury was an upgraded tooling of an unissued Merit kit] cheers T

It would be neat if Airfix dipped their toe in more 1/48 armour. Say, a classic or two British subject, a modular Churchill would be good, by modular, designed to make some different variants, bear in mind it was the basis of many 'Funnies' also would tie with the D-day theme. The other would be a Centurion, again, if designed well, would allow many variants, and was a widely used and successful tank, eg Korea, Israeli and Australian use. The other would be some British airfield vehicles, like the ones they just did in 1/72nd or the old ones in 1/76th. I know the 1/48 armour is a 'niche' but it matches the planes neatly cheers T

Sorry Enzo, but no. The Hurricane bits are not really going to help. While Hurricane bits may look useful, they won't be, the Tornado is considerably bigger. Start with a cardoor Typhoon and work from there. Also depends which Tornado, as first flown, with revised radiator or as Centaurus test bed. If you look at the link this thread will show http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234940153-hawker-tornado-landing-gear-doors/#entry1315704 Basically the wings are 3 inches lower, so new wing roots, new belly, new nose. Lot of work to be accurate, oh, the Tornado wings were the 12 gun type too. If you want drawings/info PM me. cheers Troy

Enzo why do you need both to build a Tornado? The only Hurricane bits you could use are the exhaust pipes... and using kits for those is an expensive you to get them..... please see the link above for more info on the Tornado and how it's differs from the Typhoon.. or am I missing another joke?