HBBates
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Posts posted by HBBates
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Ok...i see that now.. i did see that in a few earlier photos but I thought it was just maybe it was a molding flaw
They did seem to somtimes confuse rivet lines and panal lines on the blueprints.. at least we know they we're looking at the blueprints ..
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Some other quick notes... lower cowl seam (so same as kit lower cowl seam) ...and
...Piano hinge line on the wing gun hatches (needs to added on kit I think)
Also the under left wing air temp probe (on US P-40's only)
Also on the Tomahawk the is a round hatch on the right side of the engine cowl.. it sometime left off in the field
Round hatch left off ( just above wing root fillet )
Round hatch just aft of "smile lines" ( again just above wing root fillet )
(Note again Lower cowl single center line seam )
Round hatch (again just above wing root fillet)
(note on bottom photo.. disregard lower cowl "cheek seam".. this incorrect on the restoration copying later short nose P-40 cowls.. long nose cowl should only have single centerline seam as shown above)
Final Note .. the "kink" in the Gun cowl to Engine cowl
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58 minutes ago, 71chally said:
Superb info and work on this thread.
It's just occurred to me that what I thought was the first of the P-40 variants in RAF is this kitted Tomahawk II, what was the Tomahawk I?
Sorry not having better info right now.. I do no have my files right now .. just gabbing thing I had in my photobucket
For the Tomahawk I I think the main thing you need to look to at this scale is the antenna mast
Below are some notes an spine detail .. for the RAF Tomahawk .. note the little blister light.. the same opening is patched over on the AVG Tomahawks
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8 hours ago, Jon Kunac-Tabinor said:
Actually I have a question too.
RAF Tomahawks - gunsights. Were these fitted? or was the ring & bead all they had. And, If they were, how did they attach inside? Later P-40 variants have what I can only describe as a whacking big mount sticking out from the top of the instrument panel back into the 'pit
I know something was puzzling me
Jonners
RAF gunsite
Im doing this blind because I do not have the kit... but in looking at the instruction I do not see an RAF gun site included
Here are some incomplete notes
By the way.. note the grab bar on top of windscreen
And note armor glass is it mounted straight on RAF AVG Tomahawks
But armor glass is at an angle to right on US P-40 due to gun-sight reflector mounted on windscreen glass (see below)
US P-40 floor mounted gun site..(reflector is on the windscreen glass)
US P-40 gun-sight reflector mounted on windscreen glass
Armor glass (center photo) is mounted at angle to right due to gun-sight reflector
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4 hours ago, Tbolt said:
The one I haven't worked out is the panel line which has part of it extra wide lthat sits above the wing fairing - from picture I've seen of the real thing this is just a lap join with two rows of rivets, so not sure what Airfix were doing there. I'll probably fill and rescribe this to match the rest of the line.
Tbolt what are you looking for? this seam between the upper and lower fuselage its common to H75,81 &87 (P36 & early late P40)?
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Really people are upset because the aileron are not separate??!!
That's almost like a man dying of thirst bitching cuz he didn't get ice in his drink... hey I wanted it too but hardly a deal-breaker it a 5 minute job to seperate.. in fact its separate from the top wings so it's only the bottom
The Hasegawa P-40 does not separate ailerons either and it got rib detail error in it ailerons to boot... hell most the modern Japanese kits still don't have all separate controls
Trumpeters separate surface is because it scaled down from their 1/32 kit
I'll take a correct wing shape over separate control surfaces any day
Trumpeters wing and aileron shape is a mess along with the all the other control services elevators, stabilizers, and rudder being a shape mess
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I definitely wanted the aileron's to be separate ...but it not that hard to remove..I just do scribe and break
The P40 aileron's are slotted and have a quite distinctive gap on the underside you can see through
Fyi on the kit left aileron there's an inset trim tab and right and external ground set tab That mostly applies just to US P40bc.
RAF Tomahawk did not have..then had external ground set tabs on both aileron's....
AVG Tomahawks seem to be a mix of some with two external tab and some with the right external ground set and right inset
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5 hours ago, Tbolt said:
Yes the trim tab is only scribed on the right side, I didn't notice that earlier! It's quite deeply scribed and may be difficult scribing it the same on the right side, I think the easiest thing will be to remove it and scratch one from plasticard. Here's the picture of the right side. As you can see it's one of the parts that didn't have the mold polished.
Yep.. the top on the rudder on the right side should not have that hinge but that's no big deal it can be removed... and the right is correct in that access hatch for the trim tab linkage access...
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Crap I just noticed in your photo of a rudder it looks like the trim tab is not scribe there.. FYI can you show the other(right) side of the rudder I want to see if they got the details correct the early P40 different on that side of the rudder vs the the later P40
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Understand.. The Airfix kit is cleanly is the best early P-40 out there by far...I can say that because I know how bad the other early P-40 are.. so the bar was very low.
It may ( I do not have the kit yet to check) be the best 1/48 P-40 of an version (hasegawa is the other)...
But that does not meant it is perfect.. far from it.. it has thing that clearly need to be fixed.. but even in the worse case I see no deal breakers.. and that including if the belly is off... any thing is fixable but how much work is needed to fix..
Look for people sweating the keel fairing ..from web 2 back (per the blue prints ) its the same shape on both early and late P-40
Grab a Hasegawa 1/48 P-40 and compare to Airfix 1/48 P-40 then grab your other reference then pick who is best..
If the Hasegawa keel fairing is best to you.. and you got problem with Airfix.. then cast a copy of Hasegawa's.. how simple is that fix for aftermarket, you dont not even need to master the part..or are they both close enough for you?
I personally think it the radiator outlet part that need the main fix (an I believe it a simple fix for and modeler but I will know when I get the kit)
But want ever it needs in not a "sky is falling" or "screw the pooch" level.. you got a gem of a kit here... just give some time see what tweekes and fixed may on my not be needed
Any belly issues are way way oven blown by some at hyperscale.. you could replace whole belly ( really not that hard)..you could even be missing the whole belly faring and you would be miles ahead of any othe early P-40 out there.. (I wish they had made that keel fairing separate to attach to the bottom of the wing.. just like the really aircraft, then people would just view any issue, if found, as a simple tweek or replacement part)
The problem on the other kits early P40 kits, hobbly craft, trumpeter is the wing location not the belly faring .. .. and that why you have never seen simple belly replacement that even fix the problem with the other kits
Again you got a gem of a kit here.. relax, enjoy ..and wait for a hard tweek list if you want
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4 hours ago, BS_w said:
8" 9/32 (4,38mm) aft the sta 1(firewall), the depth of keel fairing fwd measured from wing surface is given at 7.88" (4,17mm)
you can make a jig with plastic card, cut a notch, wide 12,3mm, high 4,17mm, you will know if the keel fairing is right at this place.Data from Curtiss blue print
Perfect! hard data for people that have the kit.. thanks my friend
Im hoping to have one by next week.. and intend to remove the nose at firewall to get a clean crossview of fuslage to wing top and bottom relation so i will check this also... we will then have hard idea if any of this is off.. I'm inclined to believe everything is actually correct in the actual Keel Fairing and wing fuselage relationship at sta 1 ( I know they had the actual blueprints because I gave it to them) and it's just an upsweep of the radiator outlet part that i know is off and I have good idea of simple fix..( no blueprints for that part).. they did copy this kit off one of the restored examples and that's area on the restored is off .. the kit seem to follow that same thing on the restored example
Bottom line once in hand no more guestimates if it got hard data
Fyi another area I want to check is the framing around rear glass..i hate how they did the rear glass
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9 hours ago, chuckb1 said:
Now my question is, are other gluing and sticking communities wringing their hands and moaning that this kit is "Unbuildable and has compounded errors"? Or are they saying "Oh my this is the best one yet and with a couple of fills and re scribes it will assemble into a lovely kit?
I am just gutted mine is not here yet, my fault the day I go out to clock up some off road miles on the mountain bike the courier turned up on time for once.
It's the latter it's .. It has things that need to be fixed but I'm giving it a B+... I don't have the kit yet but I've seen the instructions on it now and quite frankly I think it's a little gem cockpit looks fantastic....
Understand this has gone from what was available in the past for early long nose P40 which was pure junk ...to a kit that's equal to your typical mainstream if not better ..its has the same amount of issues as other modern kits
To me it looks like a kit I would build even if it was a subject I had no interest in simply because it's such a nice model
And I'm saying that is probably the number one early P40 geek around
Airfix contacted me 2 years ago on this project and ask me for my opinion and I provided a lot of the earlier material to them so I've been living with his kit for a while.
Are there things I wish were different ..sure..
but right now I see only one "must fix: for the average model and that's that fuselage gun bay at firewall line and someone has already showing how simple that is to fix.
That doesn't mean that there isn't a bunch of little other things that can be done to improve it... but understand that's not a criticism saying it unbuildable ..these are things will make it better
A tweek list for model is common and is not a criticism saying something's unbuildable
Ive already stated on hyperscale I think this may be the best P40 of any version out there in 1/48 scale and that's including the Hasegawa 1/48 scale short nose P40..
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1 hour ago, BS_w said:
Hello Hume
have you noticed that this cockpit was originally a french cockpit?
Yes.. but in bits..this is something the uk put together as a cockpit guide so it has details from different versions note the fire extinguisher on the left-hand floor and also the right-hand wall.. the aircraft would have only one fire extinguisher that's just two different locations of two diffrent version for one fire extinguisher... there's 2 different styles of map pocket also ..this just show the one map pocket that use if the fire extinguishers is on right hand wall above it..the text below tell if a detail only applies to a specific range of aircraft
Here is the left cockpit wall.from IWM photo
Here the left cockpit wall from the Tomahawk manual
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Outstanding my friend thanks.. I was thinking to start doing a 1/48 template from the measurements on the keel fairing blueprint for went I get the kit in hand to check ....
As as we spoke of "the keel fairing was the same on P40 family" so I think it fair to compare Airfix to other kits like Hasegawa P-40 that has not been question in the past in the keel fairing area
I agree the Airfix keel fairing looks a little slab sided and clunkey but Im not seeing it as a gross error yet.. more a little reworking sanding to improve look...
If it is an issue then it pushs for other kits to be looked at again like the Hasegawa P-40
If and aftermarket keel fairing was found necessary and was made.. it could be as simple as a vac-u-form part and be applicable to both kits
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It could also be the the wing bottom is just bit too flat and not airfoil (note curve)... the keel fairing is sitting on the wing fuel bay cover.. and as you can seen the wing fuel bay cover is very busy in raised plates and rivets.. I was thinking the might be a great area for some photo etch detail on the wing fuel bay cover.
FYI this photo also shows the outside "flare" to the wheel opening of the landing gear fairing.. and the conventional hinge of the main gear door.. both are unique to the early P-40 ...
On the later P-40 the landing gear fairing has no outside "flare" and had a piano hinge of the main gear door..
The kit has the outside "flare" of the landing gear fairing but its very undersized ,,, and I have not seen how the kit does the hinge of the main gear door
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FYI Restored is always an issue
Stuff i have in my photo bucket right now
FYI Restored is always an issue
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56 minutes ago, Tbolt said:
It looks like the vertical panel join in front of the exhausts is missing and needs adding as well.
One think that concerns me is the Dzus fasteners on the engine access panel top edge in Jonners picture, look like the are too close to the panel line and have started to merge with it. Also the fasteners on the gun fairing appear bigger/deeper than the ones on the engine panels?
I might end up filling all those fasteners and get the beading tool out.
Yea there going to be some tweeks... but as early P-40's go this kit is a quantum leap from what we had before ..
Question ....can anyone get me or point me to a PDF of the instructions ?
Also can anyone one get me a real clean hi res scan of the decals ?
I want to see if they included these stencils (see below) anywhere on the sheet .. the are common for all RAF & AVG Tomahawks...
I know of no decal sheet in any scale in any kit or any aftermarket decal sheet that has them.. it a real pain
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1 hour ago, Tbolt said:
Nice easy fix, I like that type
So the other red lines you've drawn to fill are just lines of rivets on the real thing and they've interpreted them as panel joins?
Notice that the box top artist got the firewall/gun fairing lines correct!
Yes the other red lines I drew to fill are just lines of rivets on the real thing and they've interpreted them as panel joins... and note the little squared panel over the top engine mount at the junction of all the engine panels ..I outlined in blue
I re linked my photo because im have a problem with photobucket
Below are P-36 fuselage photo & blueprints that is mostly the same for early P40.. it will give you a feel for the area
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1 hour ago, Jon Kunac-Tabinor said:
Here's the Airfix model with the upper gun bay rear panel line moved forward. Just did this this afternoon
Jonners
So here some notes and what to fill ..see red lines
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1 hour ago, Jim Kiker said:
This is for Mr. Bates,
You have mentioned a couple of time now that there some tweaks that may be done to this new Airfix kit. I may well have missed that information, but I cannot recall having seen it either here or on HyperScale. I am very interested in learning more about this kit, and I know you are one of the Boffins where the early P-40's are concerned. Would you mind sharing your recommendations, or pointing me to a place where they have been posted? Thank you for all the work you have put into the P-40, and thanks too for sharing your knowledge!
Cheers, Jim
Well let me get the kit first to go over...
Im just seeing obvious things that need to be fix/that are incorrect but that the simple thing seen error....
The hard part is saying what to do on the kit to make it right..
example.. the firewall not having the step at the gun-bay... so in the photo its clear it not there...
But what the fix?
Rescribe the lower firewall line back?.. or rescribe the gun-bay forward? or a little of both?..or is in missing because the fuselage is short at firewall or the cowl is short and it need an plastic shim.. and were is the wing in relation to this all and the other detail
Now im 99% sure looking at photo it just a simple rescribe the gun-bay forward... but I will need to kit in hand to been sure that is just the simple fix
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1 hour ago, Tbolt said:
From Jonners pictures it looks like the step isn't there, I don't know if the firewall is in the right place - if it's not can we not just rescribe the lower firewall line?
No I would not just rescribe the lower firewall line.. ...I believe thats all in correct place and it relates to wing position..... so it a rescribe the upper gun bay line most likely....
Once I get the kit and check blueprints I will post it.. in should be simple fix
FYI ... the kit might already have the correct line already scribe on the upper cowl inserts its just the inserts extends in to the gun cowl for some reason.....ive seen some photos that hints at that but it not clear
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1 hour ago, 72modeler said:
Interesting discussion, to say the least!
Regarding the underside fairing that runs from the rear of the coolant radiator exit flaps to the trailing edge of the wing, it sure does appear that Airfix missed the shape quite a bit- strange error to make, especially when there are several P-40 variants, including P-40C's, P-40E's, P-40F's, P-40K's, and P-40M/N's available on the continent. IIRC, the shape and contours of the fairing was basically the same on all variants.
I found a website that has excellent drawings and references for P-40B through N details, which I have attached a link to below. I hope it will be useful. If you Google P-40 undersides, you can see some photos of the underside of different P-40 variants that show that the fairing does make a gradual taper from the front to the back, not a kink; there is even one that shows P-40's stacked vertically at a surplus/disposal site with one in the foreground that has the sheet metal covering over the fairing removed that clearly shows the shape. Hopefully one of the resin aftermarket firms will make a replacement that can correct the one in the Airfix kit, which pretty good. Not my scale, but I'm happy for all you 1/48 modelers!
Mike
The fairing is not really that off in my opinion ...the blueprint drawings tend to exaggerated the curve that comes from a straight tapered tube being on the bottom of an airfoil curve.....fyi the modeller that posted those blueprints is my buddy...we been swaping info on the h75,P-36 and h81,h87, P40 for years. he's a brilliant French modeller and an outstanding expert on the subject so we're already communicating on the backside about this....
(remember blueprints are not intended as a perfect drawing of the shape.like a scale drawing...it a guide to make a part for a machinist..and it the measurements ..the numbers on the blueprint thats what matters.. they real part builder does not lay the part on the blueprint..like modlers do a scale dawing)
Take any 3d tube and cut a curve airfoild notch in the side..then look at it from the top in a 2d drawing and it will look like it has curved sides.
As for the Warhawk site be careful some of the drawings they have ..and they have limited number of actual blueprint drawings and those are all later P40 and and measurements are unreadable
I do have the full dvd of late P40 blueprunt that's commercially available and measurements are readable
And I also have the Curtiss "m roll" of P36 early P40 drawing in digital format
I had the micro film digitized by the UCLA microfilm preservation lab lin LA..so the clearest copy around...
I got the microfilm from one the main rebuilder of P36 early P40...
The m roll is very rare and not commercially available
I digitizer the m roll for Airfix at their request and got it to them 2 years ago for this project
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3 hours ago, Raven Morpheus said:
Looks good, should be getting mine soon, Airfix apparently had a problem taking payment 2 days early...
Do we get a wheels up option?
Yes..it has the following options
Wheels up or down
US roundback seat or export squareback seat(UK, ChinaAVG, USSR)..
[Save that squarback seat for other UK versions of US aircraft..( early v1710 Mustangs, Buffalos, Harvards)]
US wind screen with on glass Gun Sight reflector or export wind screen with rearview mirror(UK, ChinaAVG, USSR)
Close and open canopies
Short and long blast tube fuslage guns
Normal radio hatch all model or RAF photo recon mod with photo hatch and camera
"Clean" belly P40B or droptank and droptank mount for belly P40C
Note it has rear fule tank to be seen via open rear bulkhead but that opening should filled with flat sheet plastic in opening because on real aircraft its normally filled with armor plate "hatch" bolted in bulkhead opening
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I put this post on Hyperscale because as we talk of tweeks and fixes on this kit I want people to understand .. this kit does have thing to fix....But.... I can honestly ask this question
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Is Airfix or Hasegawa the Best 1/48 P-40 now in the market?
Truth is.. looking at the photo with the new plastic and tighter tooling the Airfix kit looks very much like a Hasegawa kit..
And Yes Airfix's P-40 and Hasegawa P-40 are way different versions... but as any version P-40 go.....
The Airfix might just be the best 1/48 any version P-40 ..
The cockpit is better that for sure.. and then what you need to tweek / fix on Airfix vs Hasegawa silly inserts that are a pain
then the price point..Airfix vs Hasegawa?.....Airfix wins that
Airfix might just be the new best 1/48 any version P-40
And that not saying it has nothing to fix.. it does..it has some really silly errors.... but so does the Hasegawa kit
So look at is as if the Airfix or Hasegawa were the same version 1/48 P-40?.. which on would you chose..even if then were the same price
The Airfix and Hasegawa P-40 kits look to very much complement each other
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On 10/27/2016 at 16:40, Jon Kunac-Tabinor said:
The fit of the parts in these photo of it just taped together look fantastic ,,I was worry about that wing root
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FYI Restored is always an issue
Airfix P-40B Tomahawk 1/48th - It's Arrived!!!!!
in Aircraft WWII
Posted
Thanks I was looking for that gunsight drawing that comes straight from the H81 Tomahawk manual