ColFord

EK196 'M' photographed whilst with No.268 Sqdn at B43 St Omer-Fort Rouge in September 1944, landing lights visible in photo. JP371 'A' photographed whilst with No.268 Sqdn at B43 St Omer-Fort Rouge in September 1944, landing lights visible in photo. If the aircraft received further modification when passed to 146 Wing that saw the deletion or plating over of the landing lights, that is something that happened after they were passed on from No.268 Squadron in mid-November 1944. 268 were already experimenting with a forward facing 35mm cine camera fitted in the inboard cannon position before they passed the Typhoon on to other units. They had already experimented with forward 35mm cine camera installations on their Mustangs using various types of mounts on various parts of the airframe. Regards,

Interesting build. However, the Typhoon FR.1bs were a dedicated conversion and could not be easily converted back (in the field) to a normal Typhoon fighter bomber or rocket carrier. Of those that are known to have been converted to FR.1b specification, their use after being with the main unit to use them operationally in any great numbers, being No.268 Squadron RAF, was a number passed to No.4 Sqdn and a smaller number passed to individual Typhoon WIngs. The primary role with No.4 Sqdn and the Typhoon Wings was to tag along and get immediate coverage of strikes against targets. A number were also passed back (ones and twos) to units such as 84GSU, 3TEU, 55OTU, 56OTU, 85Grp Comms Flt. In all the photos I have of Typhoon FR.1bs serving with No.268 Sqdn or with No.4 Sqdn, they show the landing lights present, not faired over. All were 3 blader, bubble top, small tail plane variants. They were not much liked, other than for their ruggedness. Effectively you could not fire all three of the remaining cannon, otherwise the uneven recoil would slew the aircraft off target. So normally the remaining outer cannon on each side was used if required. Pilots didn't like that as it was only using effectively half of the normal armament. Photography could be blurred by vibration from the engine and airframe, much harder to isolate the vibration into the camera and camera mounts than in the Mustang. Also much heavier on the controls compared to the Allison engined Mustangs the pilots were also using at the time, gulped fuel like no bodies business and tended to 'snake' at low altitude. I think there was a thread over in the WW2 aircraft part of Britmodeller which may have been back in 2010 or thereabouts which covered off some of the detail of the dedicated Typhoon FR.1b aircraft which Chris Thomas and I both contriuted to. Regards,

If a decal maker wanted to get around this they could by using similar expedients to those used by decals makers for a number of other subjects, of which examples of "MarleneBoronia" printed in the right typeface/font and colours, suitably cut and reassembled to meet the needs of F1 modelling fans, and the mis-spelling of the decals of the name of a P-51D flown by a famous USAF General, with said decal sheet just happening to have the correcting letter printed separately elsewhere on the decal sheet. Remove offending letter and replace with correct letter, accurate model, no breach of copyright or trademarks by the decal manufacturer. Same as trying to impose copyright on a sheet of letters of a particular typeface that the modeller can assemble to create any word or phrase they want. Given the recent new scheme applied to PS853, which is accurate excepting the R-R name script on the upper cowlings, opportunity is there for some very nice PS853 PR.XIX schemes to be produced chronicling its service life. Regards,

Going back on topic, I will be purchasing at least two, maybe three of the Airfix 1/48 Spitfire PR.XIXs (maybe some aftermarket photo etch which will probably arrive on the scene from the usual suspects, maybe some resin detail goodies) to enable me to build some PR.XIXs I have wanted to do for some time without having to combine Aeroclub bits, with Academy bits, with some Airwaves bits, to obtain what will be a passable and reasonably quickly identifiable scale model of a Spitfire PR.XIX. Here's hoping as well Mr Hannant and Xtradecal also come along to provide some well researched and accurate other schemes for the PR.XIX. Might one even hope for a sheet that covers the extant Spitfire PR.XIXs over their known lives and the variations in markings they have carried in their long flying lives. Worthwhile at this point to throw in the following link to some photos of PS853 after her recent overhaul and repaint. http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=114038&page=67 On the following ten or so pages photos pop up of PS853 doing her series of test flights following her overhaul. Very nice and an accurate depiction of how she appearred in April 1945. P.S. I shall not name he whose name shall not be spoken........................................doom sayer of all............. Regards,

The Mustang Mk.I did not have spent case and link chutes for the nose guns. The spent cases and links were dumped into hoppers in the nose. Otherwise, if there had been spent case and link chutes think where they would have neatly delivered the spent cases and links - straight into the mouth of the underslung radiator. Creating a Mustang Mk.I from the ICM kit takes a lot of work. Utilising the Ultracast Mk.I conversion helps, but there is significant other work required to turn it into a passable Mk.I - been there, done that, took a lot of effort. The following thread here on Britmodeller might be of help: http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=44133 Regards,

John, Lovely work, I am sure that Steve will be more than pleased with the finished Pup. Have you seen the post over on the Plane Talking forum over at the 'H' site of the TVAL Sopwith Pup replica in NZ? Has some good detail photos, including of the oil and exhaust staining patterns on the underside of the aircraft after flight. Once again, brilliant piece of modelling work there. Regards,

Sorry, hate to say it but the Ducimus publication by Goulding and Jones has since been found to contain a significant number of errors. Fine piece of work for information available when it was written, but since found to be flawed. They repeated a number of Mustang 'myths' that have since been disproven and some of the schemes portrayed for specific aircraft bear little if no resemblance to the actual C&M scheme of the subject aircraft when compared to photographs of the subject aircraft.

Bob, The answers as to how and why things happened as they did are way more complex than what one can easily summarise into a series of posted answers on an internet forum. Wade through a stack of original files held in archives across a number of continents and you are just scratching the surface in getting the information you need to start unravelling some of the whys and wherefores as to what happened. Why was the RAF modifying and repainting aircraft in the UK after delivery rather than have NAA do it at the factory? Simple answer, it was simpler from the RAF's perspective to do it that way, especially as a lot of the mods they were doing were specific to the RAF's intended use for the type and in service experience. They fed information back to NAA and the USAAF on suggested modifications, especially those of value to any user of the type. But a large number of the modifications being made were RAF specific to the intended operational role of the type in service with the RAF and to their use in the European theatre of operations. Going through the documentation certainly there a degree of inertia at various times, a reluctance to request changes which might slow or impede deliveries from manufacturers and evolving requirements that mean that when you get what you ordered, you have to modify it before using it. Give it a couple more years and hopefully an equivalent work to David Muir's "Southern Cross Mustangs" covering RAF Mustangs and the best researched answers to a lot of those questions will be available. Regards,

Fixed that pesky DFS to its proper TFS up above. The repainting in the UK of the Mustang Mk.IAs and Mk.IIs was to make them consistent with the other 'fighter' types being operated by the RAF at the time and to be consistent with the decisions that had been made back in late 1942 about the C&M for the RAF's Mustangs operating with what was then Army Co-operation Command, but being operated alongside units of Fighter Command. Why accept them from the factory at that stage in TFS and early style national markings (with the larger yellow and white segments as applicable) rather than DFS? The contracts under which they were orignally ordered is probably the answer, combined with not wanting to disrupt production, and the RAF well knew the long list of modifications they had to make to the aircraft as they were delivered to bring them fully up to operational status. So one extra mod at the MU of repainting into a standardised DFS scheme and the proper national markings was not going to be that much of an imposition. As I've pointed out before, the many months between arrival in the UK and before issue to Squadrons for operational use of the Mustang Mk.IAs and Mk.IIs is an indicator of the amount of work that went into bringing these aircraft up to full operational standard and the desire in part to have the full operational acceptance trials for the type completed and all necessary mods identified before issuing to Squadrons for operational use. The other key factor for the Mk.IIIs whether in MAP colours or US equivalent colours is where the aircraft was delivered to. If to the UK, then likely repainted into MAP colours. If to the MTO directly (not via the UK), then likely US equivalents initially. As Nick has indicated David Muir in "Southern Cross Mustangs" has done a very detailed and well researched analysis (assisted by a number of other researchers and reference to original source documentation and photographs) of the variables in the differing paints and C&M schemes in which RAF Mustangs appearred. Regards,

The Mustang Mk.IA as well as the Mk.IIs were delivered in NAA factory equivalents of the TFS. After reassembly in the UK, they were stripped and repainted into a standardised pattern in DFS colours. As with any C&M scheme there were variations during the life of the aircraft in terms of details and as the C&M evolved from 1943 until 1945. See the following thread re Allison engined Mustangs. http://www.britmodel...showtopic=44133 If you wanted to do a Mustang Mk.IA in US equivalents of the TFS, it would be as it was delivered and test flown at the NAA factory, but not in RAF operational service. There are a series of photo on the US Library of Congress website taken in 1942 showing Mustang Mk.IAs at the NAA factory - both colour and B&W photos. Regards,

N.A. Mustang Mk.IA FD544 'V' No.268 Squadron, RAF Gatwick around 10 to 15 June 1944. Is recorded serving with No.268 Squadron from January 1944 until mid November 1944 when SOC after damage received in a heavy landing. Another photo of the model of this aircraft. Regards,

Seahawk, Top one is FD507 'H' August 1943, not long after entering operational service. The anomaly here is that it has the full span yellow wing leading edge id strip - someone mis-read the directive. Also a very old photo, that model has been updated since with just the smooth barrels for the cannon without the external recoil springs. FD507 also had a long history with No.268 Squadron, being one of the original batch they received in July 1943. Except for a short period when it served with No.63 Squadron during late October 1943 to early January 1944 (whilst 268 went 'on rest' to Scotland), it remained with No.268 Squadron until eventually written off just after 24 June 1944 with battle damage. 'X' in both is same aircraft at different times in its long operational life. FD535 'X' originally with No.170 Squadron from September 1943 until January 1944 when it was passed to No.268 Squadron where it is recorded as flying some 179 operational sorties until being retired just before VE-Day. The top photo of 'X' again is an old one, model since modified with the smooth cannon barrels. FD535 was interesting in that it was one of the Mk.IAs modified to also have the vertical camera installation in the rear fuselage located just behind the radiator outlet and ahead of the tail wheel bay. It had been in to a MU for major servicing in mid to late December 1944, so came back looking nice and fresh when the photos were taken in early 1945 upon which the bottom model is based. Regards,

The Allison engined North American Mustang armed with the 4 x 20mm Hispano cannon was the Mustang Mk.IA in RAF service. By the time the RAF Squadrons who operated them started to received them from July 1943 they were only identified by the individual aircraft id letter, Squadron codes had been dropped in late 1942. So what you had was an individual aircraft id letter ahead of the fuselage roundel. Aeromaster and the Aviation Workshop put out decals that covered early Allison Mustangs, but their choice of Mustang Mk.IA subjects was the rather well covered FD472 'M' with the post D-Day reduced distinctive markings on the under surfaces only from July-August 1944, incorrectly identified as being with No.168 Squadron - actually with No.268 Squadron from late January 1944. There are a couple of other threads here on BritModeller regarding subject aircraft for subject aircraft for the Mustang Mk.IA, and the four volume set of 2TAF by Shores & Thomas contains plenty of inspiration. For decals, best bet is firstly find your subject aircraft, then use XtraDecals or Almark or Aeromaster 24" Sky id letters for the aircraft id letter, use similar for the 8" Night aircraft serial number, then whatever source and sized appropriate roundels, fin flashes, etc. Range of potential variants on the basic c&m scheme as the aircraft c&m evolved from when first received until after VE-Day. A range of small and not so small variations that can actually nail down the timeframe when the aircraft is depicted. Below a range of some from No.268 Squadron RAF, using the AM 1/48th scale Mustang Mk.IA: Regards,

Agree with the previous posters that you need to thin down the locating tab on the wing tip pieces and then you don't get the problem of the tab forcing the wing wider to create the mismatch in width/depth. With a little bit of care, builds into a nice model. Here's one I prepared earlier............

Certainly for the first few months of service until the Maintenance units and modifications process caught up, a number of the early Squadrons to convert to the N.A. Mustang Mk.I flew them in the original NAA Temperate scheme equivalents. So particularly for a number of the AG serialled Mustang Mk.Is they stayed in that scheme until they went in for their first major service, were sent back to a MU to receive full modification up to operational standard, or were repainted to ensure that they met the new C&M directives for the type - which was aligning with Fighter Command rather Army Co-operation Command. Realistically by June 1942 the push was on to repaint where possible into the proper C&M scheme for the type. Some did hang around a bit longer in the NAA temperate scheme equivalents, but primarily in second line roles with Squadrons. Certainly by the time Squadrons went operational with the Mustang Mk.I, they had usually been repainted. So a lot of the early use in the NAA Temperate scheme equivalents, was the early working up and familiarisation with the type. That did involve a fair bit of flying associated with Army exercises and ironing out the bugs of the new type. By the time the later shipments of the AL, AM and AP serialled Mustang Mk.Is started to arrive, the repaint into the later C&M scheme was embedded into the modification process before they were released for use operationally by Squadrons. A number of the early AG serialled Mustangs ended up in less than fully modified state being used by 41OTU for the training of Tac/R and Army Co-operation pilots destined for the Mustang squadrons. Regards,

For matters RAF Mustang Mk.I, IA and II, the following thread here on Britmodeller is about the best. http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.p...&hl=Mustang And yes, RAF Mustangs were fitted with Sutton Harness. Regards,

If Airfix does decide to do the Griffon engined family of Spitfires in 1/48th scale to the same quality and general pricing as the Mk.XII, I would quite happily buy a few of each. Hi back XIV Low back FR.XIVE Low back FR.XVIII Hi back PR.XIX Yes, I would be very happy with that range from Airfix. Having fettled a number of the Aeroclub conversions combined with various donor kits, yes they do produce a very nice result, but take much more effort and overall cost more (donor kit cost + Aeroclub conversion/correction cost) than what the potential Airfix product could potentially be. So if you are monitoring this Mr Airfix, please, please, please please can we have our 1/48th Griffon Spitfires to the same quality and accuracy as your Mk.XII, please!

Historically, and documented in AIR, AVIA and CAB files, is documented the back and forth about many options and issues with the British requirements for Mustang production. Continued production of the Allison engined variants was requested. Supply of airframes and knocked down kits without engines, to be assembled in the UK was requested. Exploration for arrangements for different engine variants, including later Allison engines rated for low altitude performance was requested. And more often than not after exploration and request and clarification and sometimes some very modest expenditure of time and effort to explore the requested options, NAA or the USAAF rejected the request, largely on the grounds of the quantities required to meet the demand already on hand from the USAAF and RAF for the type then in production and not wanting to divert effort from the main product. With regard to excess weight, the dry weight of the Allison V-1710-F30R was some 250 lbs (111 kgs) less than that of the Packard V-1650-7 or equivalent R-R Merlin. At low altitude in its derated form the Allison, ran at lower revs with significantly lesser vibration for a fuel flow that gave it good range and good performance. Gery Beck, who built the 'new build' P-51A a few years back, commented on the low level performance of the type and how he was able to pull away from Merlin engined Mustangs. When starting at the same airspeed and a 'cruise' throttle setting, when both opened up to full throttle and boost at the same time, the Allison Mustang would accelerate away from the Merlin Mustang. The issues around diverting Mustang supplies for roles other than those of fighter or fighter bomber, given the demand exceeding supply, was to cause much angst in trying to find a suitable replacement for the RAF's Allison Mustangs for the Tac/R role. Experienced RAF Tac/R pilots who were called upon to trial various types as potential replacements for the Allison Mustangs found most of them wanting in some way, be it low level performance, low level handling, lack of low level range, poor ground handling, poor camera installations or limitations on the numbers and types of cameras that could be fitted and the like. When offered a shiny new P-51D by a USAAF unit commander for his Allison Mustang in 1945, the OC of a RAF unit declined the offer and kept his Mustang. Not the least because of the possible view of KRs and higher brass on such a swap, but he knew his Allison Mustang gave him better performance down low and was better suited for the low level role required of it.

Ed, If that is the one I think it is that used to haunt Canberra Airport for a few years, the phrase from an old tv commercial comes to mind "that would be the Dart!!". Used to see it there but at the time never had a good enough camera to take any reasonable photos. Limited run, what scale??? Andrew, I like your idea for a Griffon engined Mustang, looks much better than some of the concepts that were bandied around in late 1944-early 1945. Maybe time for a Mustang Whif Group Build? Now see folks, we have found a good use for all those ICM Mustang clones and spare parts left over from all those other kit builds. Thinks - I do have a Griffon Spitfire XIV nose left over from an Academy kit..............maybe 4 x 20mm like a Spitfire 21? Regards,

Steve, Malcolm Hood on Mustang Mk.I, not aware of any. May have been one associated with trials of the installation, but evidence so far suggests Mk.IA was used to develop and trial the installation. Malcolm Hood on Mustang Mk.IA, one definite, being the aircraft used to develop the installation and then used for service acceptance trials by A&AEE. I have a couple of Mk.IAs that may, very much a possibility, may have been fitted with the Malcolm Hood later in 1944, but have not had anything to confirm their details. Malcolm Hood on Mustang Mk.II, a few when the Mk.IIs were first entering service in May 1944, then progressively more so that by November 1944 most, if not all in service were so fitted. Regards,

W.I.P. Having spoken to a number of RAF, RAAF, RNZAF and RCAF pilots who flew the Allison engined variants of the Mustang from 1942 until 1945, including a number of them who also flew the later Merlin engined variants in trials and in the fighter role, they all, universally spoke highly of their Allison Mustangs and its suitability for its role as a low level Tac/R aircraft. When in 1944 and 1945 various replacement aircraft were proposed (Typhoon FR.1b - fail, Spitfire FR.IX - too short range, Spitfire FR.XIVE - too short range, heavy) all they asked for were more Allison engined Mustangs. The Allison ran more smoothly at lower revs than the Merlin, in its derated form as modified for low level Tac/R work, it gave heaps of boost and accelerated rapidly and if low down and in a level sprint, there was not much could catch up to it until the jets came along. It was responsive on the controls and its wide undercarriage made it easier to land on rough airfields or in cross winds. There were instances where strong crosswinds on ALGs grounded the FR Spitfire units, so that the Tac/R Mustangs had to pick up all the operational demands. The Mk.IA with its 4 x 20mm Hispano cannon was well liked, the Mk.II with its 4 x 0.50 Browning HMGs was also well liked, especially when fitted with the Malcolm Hood which improved visibility, but more importantly for many of the pilots increased head room and ease of departure in an emergency compared to the coupe top hood. It was a case of different aircraft for different roles. They all loved strapping on a Spitfire to fly as a pure fighter, and to practice aerobatics. A Merlin engined Mustang kept on climbing where a Allison engined version would run out of puff with its single stage supercharger and performed well up high, but was heavier on the controls and more tiring to fly for long periods at altitude. It was with the greatest of sadness the Tac/R pilots saw the last of their Allison Mustangs retired in August 1945. Kermit Weeks in the USA currently has a P51A being restored to flight, which will be modified to represent a cannon armed P-51/F-6A (Mustang Mk.IA equivalent), but with the standard hood, not the Malcolm Hood.

Not as much "what if" as you might think. There were proposals for engining later model Mustangs with Allisons as a safeguard against shortages in R-R and Packard Merlin availability and to produce variants more suited to operational use at lower altitudes eg. in the Tac/R and Army support or fighter bomber roles where operations would have been below 15,000ft. This would have left the R-R or Packard Merlin engined versions for the 'pure' fighter and long range bomber escort roles. Compared back to back at low altitude, the earlier Allison engined Mustang with a de-rated supercharger suited for operations below 10,000ft would outperform the R-R Merlin engined variants which were optimised for medium to high altitude performance. The earlier Allison engined variants were also a lot lighter and therefore handled better at low altitudes than the R-R Merlin engined version. I've had a similar mash up of ICM and AM bits to do a RAF Tac/R Squadron 1945 'what if' for an Allison engined Mk.IV(FR), but also with the earlier 4 x 20mm Hispano armament and rear fuselage recce cameras as per a F-6D. That matches the operational requirements document developed in late 1944 for a replacement for the then aging and dwindling stocks of the Allison engined Mustang Mk.I, Mk.IA and Mk.II for the Tac/R squadrons in 2TAF. Nice build. This was one of my takes on the concept, but using a de-rated Merlin variant.

Having a quick look at what photographs I have of No.19 Sqdn RAF Mustang Mk.IVs, those where it is clear enough or large enough and don't have someone standing in the way to see, the wheels look to have the diamond tread tyres fitted. HTH.

I finished this one a little while back, enjoying the new generation of Airfix kits for the first time. I still have an Aeroclub Spitfire XII conversion set teamed up with a Hasegawa/Revell Spitfire IX kit in the stash for another Spitfire XII build, but the new release Airfix kit caught my eye. I wanted to do one just a little different from an OOB example, so using my copy of the Spitfire 'bible', a couple of other notable Spitfire references, plus the 4 volume 2TAF set by Thomas and Shores, eventually selected this one. Quite happy with the end result in what was a trouble free build, a great way to clear a bit of "builder's block" that had developed over the Australian winter last year. Was so happy with this one I bought another example of this Airfix kit, so the Aeroclub conversion might go a bit further back in the queue for its selected subject build. Now Mr Airfix is you would just be so kind as to do a Spitfire XIV, Spitfire FR.XIVE/FR.XVIII and PR.XIX in 1/48th scale to the same quality and fit, I would be very, very, very happy. Enjoy.

Make: Accurate Miniatures Scale: 1/48th Subject: N.A. Mustang Mk.1A FD552 'N' of No.268 Squadron Royal Air Force, May 1944 flown by F/O F Normoyle RAAF, based at RAF Gatwick.