ColFord

The latest release in the Wingleader Photo Archive series on the Tempest V by Chris Thomas is certainly worth a look. Heaps of good quality photos with accurate captions describing what is in the photos, good mix of general and detail specific photos, plus colour profiles. A review video to give you an idea of the contents here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKCl1eZFaI8

One more. Not the greatest photo, but one I could find reasonably quickly in the TBs of photos I have stored on various drives (must organise them better!) A94-983 in the TAM hangar in 2012. This side photo shows the pipe they added down the fuselage side for the addition of the smoke system as well as the pylons for the drop tank and the Sidewinder and rail. Some of the panels around the nose are not properly in place in this photo, from memory it was not flying at the time due to some maintenance issues, pre the MB seat issue. TAM SAbre in Hangar 2012 by Colin Ford, on Flickr

Selwyn, Hope these might be of use to you. The ejection seat & cockpit of an Avon Sabre held in the collection of HARS at Shellharbour Airport, photographed back in 2011 with the original seat as at end of RAAF service. Avon Sabre HARS Seat 1 by Colin Ford, on Flickr Avon Sabre HARS Seat 2 by Colin Ford, on Flickr Avon Sabre HARS Cockpit 1 by Colin Ford, on Flickr The Sabre operated by Temora Aviation Museum/No.100 (Heritage) Squadron RAAF was fitted with a MB ejection seat and the modified cockpit track/sills as fitted to Luftwaffe Sabres. A deal was done between the RAAF and Luftwaffe (swap of some items between museums) to get the parts for the RAAF Sabre. Photo shows the TAM/RAAF Sabre not long after it's initial return to flight back in 2009. Subsequent to how it is shown here, they added a smoke generating system, drop tanks and a set of inert Sidewinders and rails. As of my last visit to TAM in September 2023 to attend one of their regular aircraft showcases the Sabre was still not flying and in with discussion with some of the technical staff there at the time they had not yet identified a solution for the MB ejection seat issue that met all the RAAF safety requirements to allow a return to flight to be signed off. Temora Sabre 1 by Colin Ford, on Flickr HTH

In looking through the photos that I have of RAF ACC Squadron Tomahawks in the UK, those in late 1941 to mid-1942 predominantly have the tubular style exhausts. The first photos to show up of Tomahawks with the flared or fishtail style glare reducing exhausts is with some of the Squadrons that were forming on Tomahawks from mid to late 1942 - so aircraft still in service in the UK with ACC squadrons forming and working up on Tomahawks whilst they waited for them to be replaced in due course with Mustangs. What few Tomahawks that remained with the ACC Squadrons in late 1942 into early 1943 - the squadrons that had re-equipped with Mustangs usually retained a couple for training purposes and also to retain the vertical camera capability that had been put into some of the ACC Tomahawks, until such time as the Mustang vertical camera modification was implemented - the photos show flared or fishtail style exhausts, similar or the same as were developed and fitted onto the RAF Mustang Mk Is. The style of flared or fishtail exhaust that was eventually standardised upon for the RAF's Allison engine Mustangs was based off a design that had been developed for the Kittyhawk following service trials flights and tests on both Kittyhawk and Mustang by A&AEE. The Mustang version had some subtle changes to the angles that the exhausts came off the side of the engine to take account of the different sight lines of the pilot in the Mustang cockpit compared to the Tomahawk/Kittyhawk, but the basic design was the same.

Yes. And RCAF pilots attached to the RAF Squadrons flying the Allison engine Mustangs.

Hi Mike, Many thanks for the review on the book. Just a quick correction on your introduction regarding the naming of the Mustang and lineage. As included in the information given on the inside rear cover of the book, the A-36 Mustang was the fourth variant of the Allison engine Mustang to be designed, developed and put into production, some 2 years after the first. Therefore it could not be the initial source of the type or name. The Mustang name was given to the NA-73 Mustang Mk I (early series) -320 aircraft direct purchase by the UK - which was the first production model of the Mustang to be built by NAA under a direct contract with the Air Ministry/RAF. For a short time in late 1940, a series of advertisements appeared in US aviation publications by both North American Aviation and Allison Aircraft Engines/GM that used the name 'Apache' in relation to attempts by NAA to sell the NA-73 to the USAAC. Those advertisements showed an illustration of diving aircraft similar in appearance to the Mustang Mk I, without dive brakes and wearing period USAAC markings. Timeframe for that was October to December 1940. After that, the 'Apache' name disappears for a while in any NAA or Allison Aircraft Engines/GM material. The name 'Mustang' by this stage was fairly well standardised in respect to the RAF and also to NAA in correspondence and technical documentation. Then followed the NA-83 Mustang Mk I (late series), 300 aircraft, direct purchase by the UK. Minor changes from the earlier NA-73. Next was the development of the NA-83 and the first version to be provided under Lend Lease and to carry the P-51 (no suffix) designation, the NA-91 Mustang Mk IA also known as the P-51 Mustang in the USAAF. Note the use of the upper case 'A' in the aircraft designation for the RAF as Mustang Mk IA - this is how the sub type appears in official original Air Ministry and RAF documentation about the type. This version saw the change from the mixed MG and HMG armament to four 20mm Hispano cannon mounted in the wings. Of the 150 P-51 built under Lend Lease, due to the US's entry into the war after Pearl Harbor, the USAAF retained 58 of the NA-91, with the RAF receiving 92. For a brief period, in order to differentiate the P-51 in USAAF service, the suggested use of the name 'Apache' was floated again, however this was quickly shut down by Dutch Kindelberger of NAA who issued a memorandum that all variants of the type in production and in development would be known by the name 'Mustang'. So USAAF continued use of the 'Mustang' name. Next version on line was the NA-97 A-36, the dive bomber variant which was a design development of the NA-83 Mustang Mk I, not the NA-91 P-51 Mustang Mk IA. Internal NAA documentation and period USAAF documentation refer to the A-36 as 'Mustang'. In trawling through numerous original period documents and publications, no where does the name 'Apache' get used in relation to the A-36. The one variation to the name of the A-36, which was a proposal put forward by one of the USAAF units in the MTO using the A-36, was to rename the aircraft as 'Invader' and this gained a little traction for a while, where the use of the 'Invader' name related to the A-36 appeared in a few US and UK aviation publications and even in at least one US War Office Aircraft Recognition Manual. But again this was quickly shut down by the USAAF as the 'Invader' name had already been allocated to the A-26. 'Mustang' was confirmed for the A-36 and appears in the USAAF listings of USAAF aircraft types and names produced during WW2 - this list also has a column showing aircraft names given by the RAF. Last of the single engine Allison engine Mustangs was then the NA-99 P-51A Mustang, fifty of which were provided to the RAF and known as Mustang Mk II. Research in the past 20+ odd years has sought to identify exactly where the attachment of the 'Apache' name to the A-36 originated. Robert Gruenhagen in his seminal historic work on the Mustang does mention the brief flirtation with the use of the 'Apache' name for various versions of the early Allison engine Mustang, but how it was always officially 'Mustang'. One key US researcher who did a very deep dive into the subject, identified a very prolific US based aviation history and warbird author and publisher, who seemed to be the primary source of the use of the 'Apache' name in relation to the A-36, starting in a series of articles published in the early 1970s. That author/publisher then repeated the 'Apache' and A-36 connection across a series of articles and publications they were involved with over a number of years. They in turn were quoted by others as a source in books being researched and written from the 1970s onward. It was then repeated so often, it became 'fact'. In the past 10 years there has been a concerted effort to correct the record so to speak in relation to the correct name for the A-36. In the past few years, this has culminated in the facts around the name appearing in a number of recently published works on the Mustang, and the USAF Museum changing their online and in museum information on the A-36 to indicate its historically correct official name being 'Mustang', that it had been proposed to be known as 'Invader' by units in the MTO during WW2. Unfortunately attempts to get changes made to a certain online source of information quoted by many in relation to the correct name for the A-36 have proven difficult - so that particular source still contains many errors of fact. And for those here on Britmodeller with an interest in modelling early Allison engine Mustangs in RAF Service there is one very long running thread here: Cheers.

USAAF were loaned a number of British manufactured types for a variety of reasons. RAF did provide USAAF with a number of types for such activities as Beam Approach Training, familiarisation with and evaluation of current British navigation and bombing aids eg OBOE and GEE, as well as a couple of aircraft fitted with electronic counter measures such as MANDREL. In this instance and given timing, plus RAF use of Stirlings as a platform for a number of the electronic aids and ECM, may well be associated with USAAF trials or training for the equipment before use by USAAF. Would make sense for the RAF to provide a Stirling at that time rather than a Lancaster or Halifax. A number of published works on the US 8th Air Force, including those by Freeman, make mention and provide listings of some of the types of British aircraft provided under reverse Lend Lease and their use. Many and varied types. Other possibility lies with the use of the Stirling by RAF 38Group for paratrooping and glider towing and if this may have been used by USAAF in 'heavy' glider towing trials or training in absence of other suitable USAAF types in the UK at the time. There are rationale reasons for the USAAF to be provided with and to use a Stirling in the timeframe indicated.

I will throw this old Britmodeller thread from back in 2010 into the mix regarding Mustang III MT-K. As indicated in that thread photos and profiles of MT-K of No.122 Squadron RAF from various times in its service life appear in the quoted publications. For a photo of the aircraft MT-K FB226 taken July-August 1944 on an ALG in Normandy, see Imperial War Museum online photo collection, search 'IWM FRE 14886'. Caption of that photo ties back to the 2010 thread in part.

Corrected to three inches. In the various exchanges I copied and saved from the P51SIG 4&1/2 inches came up at a particular point of the measuring. Digging further the three inch difference came up as the discussion progressed - it was getting everyone working from the one consistent datum point on the wing to fuselage dimensions and what was being measured.

That would be what used to be 'Polar Bear' a P-51A (US Serial 43-6006) wreck recovered from near Fairbanks Alaska in 1977 and restored using a lot of P-51D components, so it was a rather 'deep' looking P-51A/B/C/D hybrid. Fuselage was closer to P-51B/C, with a deeper nose section for the Allison V-12 engine, and the underslung radiator assembly was P-51D, as were most of the operating systems eg hydraulics, electrical. Went through a major rebuild 2012-2017 to bring it back to a condition much closer to an actual P-51A now called 'Shanty Irish' and in a scheme similar to that used on one of the NA-73X/XP-51. In it's 'Polar Bear' configuration, the fold down side section of the canopy would sit 3 to 4 inches above the top of the wing root fairing top edge. On a genuine early Allison engine Mustang (NA-73, NA-83, NA-91 N-97, & NA-99) the bottom of the canopy section when open would sit at the top of the wing fairing. The question of the difference in fuselage depth between the Allison engine Mustangs and the Merlin engined P-51B/C is that the Merlin engine version is three inches deeper in the section of the fuselage above the wing. Difference confirmed from original NAA techical documentation and doubly confirmed by a US warbird maintainer who was a member of the old P51SIG who did a physical measurement between surviving, largely original airframes in the collection he was maintaining at that time. The redesign in fuselage depth, led to a change in the pitch angle the aircraft sits at on the ground, and when you got to the P-51D there was then the change in the forward 'rake' of the undercarriage legs as well. One of the common problems seen with a number of the current model kits in various scales is their representation of the 'sit' of the Mustang and the extension or otherwise of the main undercarriage struts that the wheel assembly sits on. In a normal loaded state - wartime aircraft with armour plate fitted, armament, engine, fuel, lubricants, etc, with the undercarriage strut in good serviceable condition, the bottom of the external undercarriage leg fairing should sit at or slightly above the centre cap of the wheel hub. A number of the modern restored warbird Mustangs, which are not carrying the full equipment specification of a wartime aircraft, as a consequence sit higher on the undercarriage if the operator has not taken into account the reduced weight of the aircraft without its full wartime equipment fit and adjusted the undercarriage strut accordingly to account for the lower weight. Halberd Models (Ukraine) have done an all resin 1/48th scale model of the AM121 variant of the Mustang X conversion.

And......we are back. Back to the beginning and the thread that probably led to this.................... Wingleader Photo Archive #22 Allison Mustang by Colin Ford, on Flickr Due out 15 May 2023. 72 pages; 120+ b&w photos and a couple of colour photos; six full colour aircraft profiles by Darren Prior - 3 x Mustang Mk I, 2 x Mustang Mk IA and 1 x Mustang Mk II; includes photos from the Wingleader Photo Archive plus a number from a range of other private collections and quite a few from my collection never previously published. There will be at a later date, another volume by another author on the Merlin engine variants of the Mustang in RAF Service. Once this is out, I expect this thread will get searched out and referenced a number of times by those spurred on to build a scale Allison engine Mustang in RAF markings. That and the more recent "All the Mustang/P-51 Questions" thread I am sure will get a workout and I'll be lurking to help out where and when I can. Going back to a question from a while back - 'best' alternatives for the P51SIG? I don't think there is yet anything that can/could replace it yet as an online source of well researched discussion and accumulated information and documentation that the SIG once had. However there are two FB groups, "P-51 Mustang" and "Allison Powered Mustangs" (both you have to apply or be invited to join) that do provide interaction with people interested in all aspects of the P-51 Mustang, including a number of current Mustang maintainers, restorers, operators and current Mustang fliers. Also a few researchers and authors are members of these two FB groups and will take part in the discussion when the topics turns to a more historic tone - or where myths and misconceptions need dispelling. And the membership here at Britmodeller is pretty good and deserve mention as well in pointing questions on RAF Mustangs to previous or other relevant threads, or other sources published, online and otherwise.

Nothing much more that I can add to answer the question beyond what Steve has stated above. The IWM photos Mustango702 linked to are both of Mustangs and pilots of No.II(AC) Squadron RAF taken at RAF Odiham, early to mid-July 1944, and are Mustang II aircraft the Squadron had equipped with at that time. IWM largely uses the original captions with the photos they have posted online. However they have updated or amended captions in some instances when errors or additional information has been pointed out to them with supporting evidence to help them validate the proposed change in captions. IWM does have a couple of other photos of RAF Mustang IIs in their online collection, you just need to know the key recognition features of the subject aircraft, timeframe, etc to make the identification. None of the the photos they have online are of the sought FR919/N. The source of the original Frog inspiration for their decal choice has long puzzled modellers and researchers whilst the IPMS Stockholm profile is probably derived from the Frog kit information. Closest photo of a No.II(AC) Squadron Mustang II is that which is supposed to by FR910/W, also taken sometime in late June to July 1944. That one has been used in a couple of different publications and the c&m scheme the Mustang is carrying in the photo is very similar to that used by Frog for FR919/N. Without access to original pilot's log books of No.II(AC) Squadron RAF pilots who flew Mustangs in the timeframe in question, and with the hope the pilot entered the aircraft ID letter and not just the serial into their log book, little chance of getting many of the serial and id letter ties ups people would be interested in. The Squadron Operational Records only record aircraft serials, they do not include individual aircraft id letters. Surviving No.II(AC) Squadron pilot log books from WW2 seem relatively rare.

The mustard-yellow "patch' is a USAAF gas detection patch. In the relevant USAAF technical documentation it is described as a precut, adhesive backed 'decal' chemically treated to provide a visual alert to exposure to certain types of chemical weapons, in particular mustard gas. On being exposed to one of the triggering chemicals the patch would change to a shade between pink to a red, colour intensity depending on the degree of exposure the patch received to the chemical agent. They were to be placed at obvious and visible locations on the airframe where they could be seen by groundcrew as they approached an aircraft after a sortie as a visual warning, with appropriate decontamination procedures for the pilot and aircraft to be followed. There were a couple of variations to the basic shape, partly so that as they were manufactured and cut out of the larger sheet of the chemical impregnated material, they maximised the yield of 'decals' from each original sheet. Photos of USAAF P-51 and A-36 aircraft in the MTO show up to four of the patches being applied in some instances, two on each side - one on each side of the nose and one on each side of the rear fuselage, in some instances one of the patches is placed across the top of the rear fuselage, either just behind the cockpit or just in front of the tail surfaces, There was a later variant of the patch developed that was again in an irregular shape and provided as an adhesive backed 'decal' that was in a colour closely resembling olive drab. From available photographic and documentary evidence, aircraft left the NAA factory for shipping to the MTO without the patches and the patches were applied either at depot level when aircraft were reassembled or at unit level when first received. They were as carried on the A-36s loaned to the RAF for use by 1437 Flight in the Tac/R role - see photo of HK944 at Foggia Italy in November 1943. Photos of the other A-36s used by 1437 Flight RAF also show the other A-36s carrying the patches on both sides, usually located roughly around the same locations as applied to the USAAF ones - slight variation in placement and angles the patches are placed. A-36A HK944 1437Flt Foggia Italy Nov1943 by Colin Ford, on Flickr

There is a restored P-40 flying here in Australia in the colours of your subject aircraft - it is not the original FR309 but painted to represent it. The company doing the restoration spent a lot of time researching the camouflage and markings of the original aircraft for the owner so that the restored aircraft could be as accurate as they could make it. They went with Olive Drab over Neutral Grey, which was the scheme the P-40s being delivered into the MTO for both the RAF and USAAF were being delivered in directly from the US. AA P40 Landing by Colin Ford, on Flickr P40 Flyby by Colin Ford, on Flickr P40 Belly Pass by Colin Ford, on Flickr

Ed, closer to home there is the two seater operated by NZ Warbirds out of Ardmore near Auckland, and in a couple of years there will by a two seater in the Grace configuration being operated by Hunter Warbirds/Pays at Scone. I have not seen anything so far on the scheme the Hunter Warbirds Spitfire will be completed in. Prices comparatively with current exchange rates plus costs to get to the UK and back make these local ones a better proposition. Keep buying the Powerball tickets!

On reviewing my notes and sources, 41-37352 and 41-37421 neither had the lowered wing or other features of the eventual P-51B-1-NA. The photo in the D&S book is of the first P51B-1-NA 43-12093 which was used by NAA as the production prototype and test article for the full set of changes proposed for the P-51B/C line. As a result of its use by NAA it was also the source of the early set of photographs taken at NAA for use in Pilot's Notes, E&M Manuals and other initial documentation sets that had to be produced to support the introducton of the new model of Mustang into service.

Working from memory of discussions many years ago, the photo in the D&S book reflects the other XP-51B prototype that was the one that was closer in appearance to the eventual P-51B/C configuration and that also implemented the 3" wing drop and wooden 'flat' floor to the cockpit, the revised wing armament of the 4 x 0.50in HMGs, underfuselage radiator 'dog house' closer to final configuration and the provision for the underwing hardpoints set up for either drop tanks or stores/bombs. So not the initial XP-51B prototype that was based off a NA-91 P-51 airframe and wing.

There are full factory blueprint drawing sets for all models of the Mustang still in existence. There were a range of different sets of drawing produced, both for original manufacturing purposes then additional for use in repair and maintenance documentation. However, the earliest ones covering the Allison engine Mustangs are rather rare - as the early Mustangs went out of service and were replaced by the later Merlin engine models, a lot of the early technical documentation was discarded. AirCorps Library in the USA probably has the most complete collection, and they are currently digitising and indexing full sets that were savd from NAA post-War. However, a large number of sub assemblies and components on the later model Mustangs were still the same as on the early Allison engine Mustangs. On the factory drawings and blueprint, if the prefix on the drawing of an assembly or component has the prefix 73, 83, 91, 97 or 99 it indicates it is a component or assembly carried through from the Allison engined Mustang versions. Following are two examples of blueprints/technical drawings where you can see the model origin is from the NA-83 - second production batch of the Mustang I - and the various information blocks giving details of when drawn, changes and other models and production blocks of Mustangs the component was also used on. NA-83 Checklist by Colin Ford, on Flickr NA-83 Bracket by Colin Ford, on Flickr Somewhere within the downloads you have obtained should be the sections covering the undercarriage bays and the multitude of components that are included in them. The detail - particularly across the different components eg metal work brackets, ribs, stringers, hydraulic lines, electrical connectors, supplier provided sub-components - may be spread across multiple sections of the blueprint set.

I've gone thru the Pilot's Notes, Erection & Maintenance Manuals and the Parts Catalogues for the range of Allison engine Mustangs from Mustang I thru to P-51A. The level of detail contained across that suite of documentation does not probably provide what you are looking for. Following are examples of the type of information conveyed on the wheel well area across those documents. In the main they are largely composed of generic exploded view type diagrams/technical drawings, then detailed diagrams/technical drawings of specific components broken down as may be required for servicing eg undercarriage strut, gear door latching mechanism, with photographs used sparingly. P-51 PC Fig 17 Landing Gear Systems by Colin Ford, on Flickr P-51A E&M P109 by Colin Ford, on Flickr P-51A E&M P110 by Colin Ford, on Flickr P-51A PC P139 by Colin Ford, on Flickr A36A E&M P84 by Colin Ford, on Flickr

As per the long running Allison Engine Mustang thread in the WWII Aircraft sub-forum here, given 99.9% of the time the main inner gear doors of the Allison engine Mustangs were up and locked when the aircraft was on the ground, there is not much to see through the remaining parts of the opening. Only time when they would be down on the ground is if they had been manually unlocked by ground crew and pulled open so they could do required maintenance in the gear wells. I think the relevant Erection and Maintenance Manual might have better and more useable photos/information, I will check what I've got.

If your modelling subject aircraft is 137352, which was basically a P-51 airframe originally with the 4 x 20mm cannon wing, with the Merlin and 4 bladed prop added up front and the revised radiator assembly with the 'angled' intake for the radiator, then the logical starting point for the basic cockpit layout would be that for the P-51 - no suffix. Being a prototype/test airframe, in all likelyhood it may have additional instrumentation added in various locations in the cockpit to monitor various aspects of the engine and associated ancillaries during the flight test program. I've seen photographs of other early Allison engine Mustangs involved in various test program flying with both NAA and the RAF/A&AEE which had additional monitoring instruments placed on top and to one side of the cockpit coaming and in other locations where they would fall within the regular instrument scans of the pilot during flight. So your starting point is the cockpit layout of the P-51. Following are from the NAA/USAAF P-51 Pilot's Manual. So layout is typical for USAAF P-51. RAF Mustang Mk.IA would have detail difference eg RAF mounted items such as standard RAF camera control box in different location on right cockpit wall, etc. P-51 Cockpit Left by Colin Ford, on Flickr P-51 Cockpit Panel by Colin Ford, on Flickr P-51 Cockpit Right by Colin Ford, on Flickr P-51 Cockpit Right Rear by Colin Ford, on Flickr P-51 Cockpit Left Floor by Colin Ford, on Flickr

If you enjoy the B*****d book, be happy, lead author Bill Marshall posted today "my next project will focus on P-51D/F/G/J and H. It may or may not touch on combat history, but I will expand on ETO/MTO/CBI from the 'b*****d Stepchild' for entire war - not just up to D-Day." That project is already well underway and will continue the story and be in a similar format/style and will likely be from the same publisher. He has lots of material to work with so it will be another huge tome.

Not necessarily, the design process for the installation of the Merlin on the Mustang that resulted in the P-51B went through a number of iterations and proposed changes. Some changes considered proved not to be feasible, or require too great a change in the basic airframe which would have potentially delayed introduction of the Merlin engine Mustang into service and caused substantial disruption to production. If you want to 'deep dive' into the original design and production of the Mustang from the first Allison engine variant through to the introduction of the P-51B/C and conception of the P-51D, then your current best reference is: P-51B Mustang: North American’s B*****d Stepchild that Saved the Eighth Air Force Hardcover – 9 July 2020 by James William "Bill" Marshall (Author), Lowell F. Ford (Author), Col (Ret.) Robert W. Gruenhagen (Foreword) - supported by input from a lot of dedicated Mustang flyers, maintainers and researchers. The other best and seminal reference on the development of the Mustang is: Mustang - the story of the P-51 Fighter by Robert W Gruenhagen ( a couple of editions of this classic from late 1970s, some of the information is dated but it still holds up very well for the basics covered.)

Unfortunately the P51SIG ceased operations earlier this year. Given the number of other forums and discussion platforms, and in particular the number of Mustang specific interest and discussion groups on FB and similar platforms the website operator of the P51SIG decided it was time to close shop. Also the software the forum was running on was well past its use by date and to upgrade was going to be a major undertaking.

In some recent queries regarding building the various versions of the early Allison engine Mustangs, I am finding that some of those making the inquiries don't have an appreciation of the early Mustang lineage, the sequence they were built, the differences and the nomenclature assigned to them by North American Aviation in terms of their factory type designation eg NA-XX, USAAF type and RAF type designations and numbers built. I prepared this handy cheat sheet which I have used as part of the education process on a couple of FB Mustang groups. Early North American Mustangs V2 by Colin Ford, on Flickr