turkeyfan

No because I wasn’t aware of it until now. Looking at the page on that site which contains mix details for FS numbers, I can see it’s useful although it just contains a sample of some of the common FS numbers. It doesn’t contain Boeing Grey for example which I use often for airliners. I’ll continue to use Tamiya paints for some projects as they spray well, however it’s nice not to have to mix paints and therefore avoid waste since you always need to mix more than you’ll use to ensure coverage.

@Chuck1945 that’s interesting as I’d considered trying Tamiya X-22 and may do in the future. The key thing that may have given you a good result is the 3-week period which allowed the paint to cure fully. I’ll stick with Mr Color gloss for my current build to avoid introducing yet another variable although I’ve noticed some micro cracks in the paint which could be the result of incompatibility between the gloss and the AK paint. The good news is that I used a test model to spray some Mr Color gloss and after a 48-hour wait, I stuck some Tamiya masking tape onto it. A couple days later when I removed the tape, there was no damage to the gloss finish so I seem to have cracked that particular problem. I now just need to determine whether the paint cracking problem is due to AK paint / Mr Color gloss/MLT incompatibility or whether the AK paint needs even longer to fully cure. Once I find a formula that works consistently and reliably for each paint brand I’m going to stick with it forever 😊.

David, the latest on my gloss experimentation is that I seem to have some cracking of the AK paint after applying the GX-100 thinned with MLT - even having left the paint to dry for several days (although the actual gloss finish was excellent). That suggests is a possible incompatibility between products and that it’s safer to stick with one manufacturer’s products. I’d go with Mr Color paints, thinners and varnishes if they provided the range of colors I wanted however that’s not the case and I find having to mix colors a pain. In future, when I need to use AK colors I’ll probably use AK thinner rather that MLT to minimize the risk of compatibility issues. The AK “Real Colors High Compatibility Thinner” gets good reviews and should play nice with AK RC paints (you would hope). What I’ve learned then is that I need to allow at least 48 hours for drying (and preferably longer during cold weather) especially if you spray multiple coats which extends the drying time needed and possibly more so if you mix different manufacturer’s products. There are clearly different chemistries at work since I remember that you can’t spray Alclad lacquers onto plastic without priming it first as it would melt the plastic, but you can spray AK lacquers onto plastic sans primer, as that’s what I’ve done with my current model without any problems. Therefore, not all lacquer products have exactly the same properties. I’ll struggle on and continue to learn 😌

I haven’t use SMS products but notice they’re described as acrylic laquers. I’d have assumed they would work with other laquers such as MC but it seems you can’t assume anything when it comes to paint products. Let’s see if others chime in (unless there’s another section that covers this).

Thanks for the heads-up but it sounds like that’s specific to Tamiya rattlecans and not their bottled paints and maybe limited to Canada for now. It’s an interesting thread however and a useful reminder of the risks of using the wide range of chemicals in this hobby, lacquers in particular. I always use a respirator and spray booth but a couple of the other suggestions in that thread are definitely worth considering.

David, all of these anecdotal experiences are interesting although you could go crazy trying to reconcile them as, like a lot of the posts I read, there’s a lot on contradictory experience among modellers. I’m sure there are incompatibility issues as you say and, for example, if Aqua Gloss doesn’t play well with laquers thinned with MLT, that kind of rules it out for me. I’m increasingly thinking however that a big part of my own problems are due to drying time so I’m going to persevere with the AK laquers for a while and see how it goes. I try as much as possible to learn the ‘easy way’ by seeking advice from people on platforms like this (90% of what I know came from YouTube videos) and it certainly has helped me avoid a lot of pitfalls but I guess there comes a point where you have to fail and risk a few bad experiences to learn what works for you. Having said that, there are several good takeaways from this thread and I’m grateful for everyone’s advice. I’ve subscribed to the Jenesis Designs channel and it looks like another good source at a glance. Re the decal issue, I’ve had a couple bad experiences but not with Cartograf ( incl Caracal), 26 Decals or Draw Decals except for some silvering, but I put that down my less than perfect gloss coats. I also had a bad experience a few months ago with Micro Sol eating into the gloss coat but that could also have been down to not allowing enough dry time. I’m a little impatient at times and need to factor in more time between paint stages in general, especially during the colder months. Re your comment “CarpetBombing" Mr Leveling Thinner over the AK Gloss Light Gull Grey”, during my ongoing gloss test yesterday I sprayed a final layer of 100% MLT after spraying the 80% thinned GX100 and it seemed to help as the finish after drying was the best I’ve achieved so far. I had begun to think that, if you’re going to thin Mr Color gloss by as much as 80-90 %, what would happen if you just sprayed 100% MLT and skipped the use of any varnish - for the pre-decal layer at least? Your own experience suggests 100% MLT doesn’t help, however a few months ago someone else suggested doing just that so I might experiment on a test piece painted with AK lacquer to see what happens. Nothing to lose. BTW - I always use AK flat paints and achieve the gloss finish via the final varnish coat, as I find flat paints easier to work with. I’d use Tamiya or Mr Color paints more often except that their ranges are more limited and don’t specify FS references which, lazy modellers like myself, like since it saves time researching and mixing colours etc. The AK and Vallejo acrylics are great for that and the AK laquer range is improving. [Stop press - I just received an email from Premium Hobbies saying they’re selling off all their Tamiya laquers at reduced prices so I wonder what’s behind that?] I digress, however I’ll take what I’ve learned here and continue testing until confident I’ve eliminated my mistakes and arrived at a consistent paint/varnish/drying process that avoids damage due to masking (or Micro Set/Micro Sol). Cheers, Tom.

I’ve been using 15-20 psi for most paints but, as per my previous post, I learned over time to lower the pressure to 10-12 psi for gloss coats to get closer to the surface - @5cm - to avoid orange peel. [BTW - that’s a beautiful finish on your Corsair and, as I have the Tamiya kit in my stash, I’ll refer back to this thread when I decide to dig it out.] I think part of my problem has been with curing time and room temperature. I’ve had the room heated while spraying but at this time of year the temp drops off overnight and I should probably have allowed more than 24 hours for the gloss to fully cure/offgas before applying masking tape (even though it was de-tacked). The feedback I’ve received has all been very helpful and to summarise my key takeaways wrt gloss application: 1) use Mr Color gloss thinned at least 80% with MCLT for paint masking and pre-decal coats due to its hard finish 2) allow 48 hours for curing in colder weather OR however long it takes until you can no longer smell offgassing 3) avoid heavy (/any?) application of lacquer gloss on top of decals for the final coat (not usually an issue with military aircraft but would be with airliners, for example) I’ve never tried Alclad/Ammo Aqua Gloss but did wonder if it would be a safer alternative for the final coat over decals since it’s an acrylic varnish, however it doesn’t seem easy to obtain in the UK for a reasonable price due to shipping costs. I do have Vallejo polyurethane gloss varnish which I’ve had decent results with so maybe I’ll go with that or possibly Tamiya X-22 for final coats on future builds. When I started this little hobby 3 years ago I didn’t imagine you’d have to have close to a chemistry degree to be able to build decent models but it seems every aspect of life has taken a sharp upturn in complexity. Might not be long before we’re consulting AI apps for our modelling projects 😊 Thanks again for your time and advice. Tom.

Having read this I felt compelled to say that, if there was a ‘best practice tech note’ section somewhere, this would be a perfect entry. In the last few weeks I’ve been following many of the steps you documented but there are some gems in there that I’ll add to my repertoire. Re your std practice of always applying a primer coat, this was also my MO until I learned that the AK real colors range thinned with MCLT can be sprayed without primer, since the adhesive properties of this mix are reportedly very good. [NB - I don’t have shares in AK!] As I’m always looking to reduce the no of steps and therefore the time taken to complete my builds, I’ve been doing that and, so far at least, not had any problems with the actual paint (although it’s still early days). Based on your comments, however, I’ll avoid this with resin and metal parts. The comments from others in that thread re not too dry/not too wet underline the degree of fine tuning needed to get this part of the build process just right and the cumulative years of experience in identifying the best process via experimentation. It’s gradually sinking in. This has been helpful and thanks again.

You may not have seen my last post as I corrected myself. For the gloss varnish I’ve actually been spraying @ 5cm but at 10-12 psi. At that pressure I find the varnish is already going on wet and, in fact, bouncing off the surface. I could try increasing the pressure, still at 5 cm distance, but those numbers seem to be working for me at the moment. I did have problems previously with less than optimal settings but gradually improved that area at least, although I’ve found that it still varies from paint to paint and possibly temp/humidity. So I’m finally getting a half-decent gloss coat but need to nail the formula for getting a real hard coat, resistant to Tamiya yellow tape. 😌 Based on the excellent advice so far, I think the Mr color GX range should work and I now need to experiment with curing times - in my own environment, since temp and humidity are unique to every location. Cheers!

You’re right of course and when I stated 10cm I was thinking of the pressure I normally use for paint, which is 18-20 psi. When I’ve been spraying varnish at 10-12 psi I’ve probably been working around 5cm to the point where the varnish is bouncing off the surface a little. I still occasionally get orange peel with some paints but I’ve learned to eliminate it most of the time. I managed to get a nice solid gloss coat last night with Mr Color GX100 thinned 80% with MCLT and will do a tape test later today or tomorrow. Interesting about your use of W&N acrylic varnish however I’ll stick with the Mr Color and Tamiya products for now as I know it’s me and not the products that are the problem! I just need to refine the process/variables to finally get the right result. BTW - I’m a recent convert to lacquers having previously sworn off them but the AK real colors range does seem to give a truly smooth finish and has eliminated dry tip for me, so I’ll persevere for a while. Just need to fix my little varnish problem. Thanks for your input and I’ll read your more detailed description.

@Greg B happy for it to be moved to the appropriate location.

@Ad-4N I’ll probably experiment with the Tamiya gloss also at some point but will continue with Mr Color GX110/112 for now and play with the dry time/psi variables until I get the result I want. Re flat finish, I use AK Uktra Matt which gives fantastic results. It’s the gloss I have problems with and my current build needs a gloss finish. Thanks.

@Chuck1945 see above. I’ve never used anything stronger than Tamiya tape. I think some varnishes are hardier than others although I guess it may depend on how many coats you apply which could affect the drying time needed. I thought 24 hours was sufficient but maybe it needed more.

@SaminCam it’s the the yellow Tamiya tape I use, although I also use the white bendy stuff for the demarcation edges as it has a sharper edge. I also de-tack it before use and re-use it like yourself. I think the problem I had was due to the AK gloss varnish not being hard enough to resist the tape although it did produce a very nice finish and will work fine as a final varnish. I just need a tape-resistant varnish for the middle stages and maybe the Mr Color products are the solution.

Thanks for your detailed reply David. Since I posted my question, I sprayed some GX100 thinned 70% with MCLT onto a test model primed in Mr Surfacer 1000 and you’re right about the consistency. I’ll try again tomorrow by thinning it to 80 or 85%. If it can take the masking tape without problems after 24+ hours it might be worth the money, especially when you can thin it as much as 80% or more. I’ve also read about spraying 100% MCLT on top as a final layer to improve self-levelling so I’ll try that also. Re the other variables, what psi do you use and how close to the plastic do you spray? I tried 10-12 psi, spraying @10cm from the surface but I’ve seen many different views on this. Also, do you spray the varnish on 2 or more sessions, allowing it to dry in between? I’ll try the GX112 next time also as, if there’s no downside, it makes sense to avoid long term UV damage. Cheers, Tom.