SeaVenom

That's it! If Airfix can sell a load of TSR2's then I'm pretty sure an upgraded reissue of the Lightning would sell. I might be wrong but I'd say the Lightning is quite a bit more popular than the TSR2. I'm not even that keen on the TSR2 but even i might buy one. I also don't think it just boils down to what countries the Lightning was exported to. I buy aircraft types from all over the world and I've often seen Lightnings in the gallery of Finescale Modeller from people all over the world.

Usual F16's and Hornets.

Interesting points but I doubt Airfix will waste their tooling like that. They've reissued zillions of their older kits and some of those are pretty rubbish, so I can't imagine Airfix not re-releasing one of their better kits at some point. Most manufacturers reissue their kits over and over again and we've seen as I said some older reissues from Revell recently. Some of those haven't been reissued for years.

No problem and I'm not offended, after all that's what these forums are for to debate the good and the bad things. I agree that an expensive kit should be of the highest standards but from the photo's I've seen the Trumpeter kit doesn't look that bad and even though I'm no Lightning expert, I still can't see how you can say that the Trumpeter fuselage is appalling though, especially as the Echelon kit is in no way perfect itself. It might be well made considering it wasn't made by a mainstream manufacturer but it's still vacform even if it has accurate panel line detail etc. Again, what about the thickness of the glass - is that spot on, are there any rivets on the Echelon kit like there is on the real aircraft, are the wing lights in clear plastic like the clear glass lights on the real aircraft? I mean where do you stop? I used to be a rivet counter and expected models to be exactly like the real thing in shape but now as long as a model captures the overall look and spirit of the real aircraft I can usually handle it. Don't get me wrong, I still want accuracy but I'm more concerned now with quality of moulding such as crispness of detail, and ease of building. I've seen other people describe models as really accurate in shape yet they have annoying things missing, blobby tooling, window frames that are only half formed, no clear lights etc. As much as I like my models to have an overall accurate shape I think some of the smaller details can make a big difference too.

And not forgetting a better undercarriage too!

Nice job!

I don't want to get into an argument but I don't think it's me being "anal". What bothered me about Marks post was that it seemed he was saying the Trumpeter kit is "completely wrong" because he was involved with the Echelon kit and wants to promote that....especially saying it's 100% accurate which I still find very hard to believe (are all the panel lines etc accurate, same with the rivets, the glass thickness as smeds said - is everything really that accurate on it?). And it's still vacform whilst the Trumpeter kit has a huge advantage in being styrene. I'm not for one minute saying the new Trumpeter Lightning is perfect (as smeds also said - no kit is 100% accurate anyway) or the Echelon kit isn't good for what it is but from the photo's I've seen it looks pretty good to me (except for the vinyl tyres which I'm not too keen on) so if I'm being anal surely I'd be picking it apart which I'm not. There might well be some annoying things wrong with it when I get around to building it but I think we should all be aware of people attacking new kits (usually plastic kits) because there's a chance that it's in their interests to do so. I've seen it on other forums.

You might well be right about Hobbyboss. They seem to be scaling down Trumpeter's releases to 1/48 like the Thunderchief and it would be nice to have yet another Lightning. I just hope that we have some new undercarriage parts if Airfix reissue theirs as I think they should keep up with the latest state of the art toolings and I think more people will be inclined to buy it again if it has the appropriate new parts.

Well, let's hope it gets made and at least they're putting info on their site about it (I'd still prefer a 1/48 Vulcan first though)! I don't think they'd do a new tool 1/72 Lightning now because of Trumpeter and the one that's supposed to be coming from Academy - that's one of the reasons I think it would be a good idea for them to upgrade their otherwise good 1/48 kit with a better undercarriage.

The Airfix box the kit came in was quite large so I don't think one tiny extra sprue with perhaps a better moulded front undercarriage door with a more positive locating point and tiny swing arms also for the front door - plus maybe one or two tiny bits to detail the rear undercarriage bays would make much difference, if at all.

Most kits seem to get re-released at some time or other, especially aircraft etc. I bet it will reappear at some point and manufacturers seem to do well by reissuing older kits as limited editions. The Lightning's one of the most popular British aircraft and look at some of the recent Revell reissues such as the Lysander or some of the other classic British subjects. Airfix have already got the tooling and as I said it would only take just one extra small sprue for an improved landing gear. I don't know why those kits hadn't sold in that warehouse but that doesn't mean the Lightning won't sell in enough numbers to justify an upgraded reissue. If Airfix can create new toolings of a Canberra, TSR2 and possibly a Sea Vixen and sell them, I'm pretty sure they could reissue the Lightning which has already had the vast bulk of it's tooling done.

I don't buy that one bit. All Airfix would have to do is to give us perhaps one new sprue with a few tiny undercarriage detail bits and some additions to the instructions . The rest of the kit is sound and if Trumpeter can sell their Lightnings I think Airfix can as well. As I said, it only needs a few very small bits to bring the kit up to modern standards and don't forget when Airfix first released the 1/48 Lightnings the internet wasn't anywhere near as big as it is today, that could help and I bet they would sell a damn sight more than 50. I think Airfix went out of business because of poor management before and because of the problems with Heller.

I don't think that would be a huge problem would it? Surely all they'd have to do is put the Hornby logo on there with Airfix? I didn't think the artwork was that bad. Not as good as the old paintings I suppose but still pretty good.

Unfortunately I think you're right. I don't like having to pay more but it seems the way the world is going and if we want these things then we'll all have to be prepared to pay a bit more for them. It's either that or we get nothing. Whilst I think there is a limit before people won't pay we must remember that it's hard out there for manufacturers and especially plastic kit manufacturers.

Yes but not everyone likes or uses resin or etched metal and they'd be extremely fiddly materials to do a decent undercarriage.

See, I wouldn't expect a model kit like the Lightning to sell in the 10s of 1000s these days. I think it's mainly older people buying these kits now and I don't think companies should even expect to sell zillions of these now. It's very much a niche market and that's why I don't mind paying a bit more these kits. Exactly and many manufacturers do the same thing.

I could be tempted I suppose. I hope that Sea Vixen gets released too.

I know and it's a good kit (I've got 2 myself) and I wasn't saying it isn't a good kit. It's just the undercarriage that I'd like to see improved.

I'm no expert on costs etc but many manufacturers retool parts or add new sprues to older moulds so surely Airfix could give us a reissue with new sprues?

Anyone else surprised that Airfix haven't jumped on the Lightning release bandwagon that Trumpeter started (along with possibly a new Academy Lightning) and gave us their Lightning with a much better undercarriage. Their kit was nice when it came out many years ago but the undercarriage is so lacking.

I'm not a huge TSR2 fan but it's great Airfix is coming out with kits like this now. We definitely need that 1/48 Vulcan too!

That is a good way of looking at it and price is all relative. I was looking in Scale Aviation Modeller earlier on and I was wondering how Trumpeter could justify selling the Crusader much cheaper than the Lightning here, but as you say it's this country I suppose where the Lightning's most popular so maybe they have to sell it at a higher price here. Like most Brits I'm fed up with being ripped off for just about everything but maybe we'll have to accept that if we want these models such as the Lightning we might have to pay a higher price for them. Better that than nothing at all!

I think Revell did Hasegawa's EE Lightning recently as well. Bit of a dated kit though.

It is expensive I suppose but let's not forget how much it costs to tool these kits up and don't forget - the more money these manufacturers make the more kits we'll have and I think the rivets look pretty good. They might not all be in the right places but they seem fairly restrained in depth and they'll soon start to disappear under a few coats of paint.

Exactly, and I find it hard to believe the Echelon Lightning is 100% accurate.