Chris Thomas

Hiya Steve. Better late than never ... Nice idea to line the radiator fairing. I presume the upper surface cam colours wrapped round onto the interior walls, as per the Typhoon, but I don't think I have a photo that shows it. Yes, 'EDM' would very probably have had a 'cuckoo filter' in the intake. I have photos of this aircraft about a year later and it had one then. This proves nothing of course! CT

Excellent model. Do not worry about the wing roundels; when 2ndTAF added yellow (outer) and white (inner) rings to the wing roundels on all their aircraft in January 1945, some featured the original (large) wing roundels modified, others had the original wing roundels painted out and new roundels (the same size and style as the fuselage roundels) painted in their place. The Airfix designer had access to photos of ZH-Q RB478 which confirm that it had the smaller wing roundels.

It is ... but enlarge the photo and look at the texture of the infill.

No one has mentioned the 'Punjab' .... which looks to me like it had recently been chalked on, probably for the benefit of the photographer. Strictly non-regulation in terms of size and position and non-typical for the period. Which proves nothing of course.

Laurent, many thanks for posting these shots. I saw the film nearly 3 years ago and struggled to get stills from it; yours are much better! Yes it is definitely MM963, 247 Sqn, July or August 1944, B.6 Coulombs. I was stunned when I first saw this. I had been looking for photos of Typhoons that my father had flown with 247 Sqn, since I was in my early teens. It took 30 years before I found one! But here was one, in full colour, with views of both sides and close-ups! The RAF officer with the forage cap and 'tache is the CO, Sqn Ldr Robin McNair DFC, who was the first Typhoon pilot I contacted when I started my serious research in the late 70s. The downside was ... the profile I did for 2ndTAF Vol 2 was based on the small photo published next to it, so the above photos now reveal a number of errors, not least that rather odd 'W" which was mostly obscured in the original photo. Perhaps it was a stencil as the port and starboard sides match pretty well and there is a photo of a much later 'ZY-W' taking off from Helmond in March 1945 with the same peculiar 'W'. So corrections to the profile have been made (in case of further use) and include a slight raising of the fuselage stripes. Other items to note (just in case there is anyone obsessed with detail out there. Really?) the mismatched D-Day stripes on the u/c doors, the curve of the camo demarcation line on the port radiator fairing (cf. the starboard side which is standard and is probably due a major repair at Hawker in April 44) and, on that port view, a horizontal line of holes just visible above and below the exhausts - where an exhaust fairing had been fitted and then removed (this is consistent with the serial number). It is so encouraging when significant photos or film turn up after 70 years or more. Bring 'em on!

David, there are two photos which show part of the aircraft, right near the edge and out of focus. The letters appear dark - perhaps solid black but cannot be confidently deciphered. I am wondering if PPH was carried on the port side and RATS (the Group Captain commanding the Wing - R A T Stowell) on the starboard side. The name 'ZIPP XII' seems to have been removed - as you would expect. Drop me a PM with your email if you are interested in taking this further.

Thanks for the plug Dave! Just to summarise, no silver known in the UK squadrons (183/54, 247) but in BAFO 26 Sqn certainly had a small number, also 33 Sqn had at least 3 (as they are visible on deck in transit to Malaya in a couple of photos) but I've not found any 16 Sqn examples. Meanwhile in India 5 and 152 Sqns had examples but nothing known for 20 or 30 Sqns. In Malaya, most of 33's Tempest IIs were eventually painted silver but this was being replaced by the Long-range DFS shortly before they were replaced by Hornets. One other example was 135 Wing's WCF's aircraft PR674/FRC (for Frank Carey) also based in BAFO.

I recently compiled the Tempest V album which is included in the Eduard Royal Tempest kit; there are 7 or 8 postwar 80 Sqn photos included but none show Type D roundels. 3 Sqn did have at least one other silver/Type D example, SN334 J5-J. In the background of a couple of 80 Sqn photos is a silver Mk. V with a black/white spinner and Type D roundels. I believe this is NV708, previously 'JCB' with Type C1 roundels, repainted with Type D and its new owners initials (not clearly visible) 'PPH' - Wg Cdr P.P.Hanks.

Just in case anyone is intrigued by the story behind the above photo ... R8943 had been with the RAE and then De Havilland Propellers on trials work during 1943 and early 44. The four-blader in the photo was just for trials and it is very unlikely that the large tailplane had been fitted. After the accident it went to Marshall of Cambridge for repair and upgrade. It did not reach an operational unit until February 1945 when it became HH-E. In April 1945 it is reported with 247 Sqn but the code is not known. To store at 5 MU in Nov 45, scrapped August 46.

This summary is a touch 'broad brush' and the last sentence incorrect, although I believe Terry is referring to the outburst of colour on 2ndTAF Typhoons in the summer of 1945. True, these were exceptional but there were coloured spinners and undercarriage doors in 1944. I wrote the C&M chapter in '2nd TAF Vol 4' and included the following in the section on spinner colours. The colour of spinners was decreed as part of the colour scheme; for day fighters it was Sky, night fighters Medium Sea Grey. In theory that should account for the spinners of all 2nd TAF aircraft until 3 January 1945 when they all ordered to be painted Night. However, while the majority of aircraft, for most of the time carried the spinner colours decreed in orders, there were significant exceptions. Information on these non-standard colours is difficult to clarify and apart from the recollections of pilots and groundcrew, the few ‘spotters’ who recorded such things and the occasional note in unit ORBs, we are left with the inexact science of interpretation of monochrome photographs. Many observers are tempted to quote traditional flight colours (red for A flight, blue for B flight) for spinners that appear to be tones other than those expected for Sky, Medium Sea Grey or Night. However some squadrons are thought to have had a squadron colour (e.g. 65 Sqn’s red-spinnered Mustang IIIs and 438 Sqn’s black/white eccentric markings) and some squadron commanders picked a particularly obvious colour or distinctive marking (e.g. spirals) for their own aircraft. Spitfires seem to have kept the official line, Sky, almost without exception, but it was a different matter with Typhoons and Mustangs. Photographs of Typhoons at the Gloster factory in the autumn of 1943 and early 1944 show new-built aircraft with Night spinners, yet photographs of 2nd TAF Typhoons at this time invariably show Sky spinners, suggesting that they were repainted in line with ADGB/2ndTAF requirements at the receiving Maintenance Unit or Group Support Unit. By the spring of 1944, when new Typhoons were pouring into the 2nd TAF squadrons, other shades are evident; certainly some are Night - others a middle shade. 266 Squadron’s Typhoons photographed at Needs Oar Point in April have spinners which seem close to the Dark Green in the camouflage. Evidence to support this suggestion was forthcoming from the wreck of MN175 recovered in Normandy a few years ago. Pieces of the spinner showed it to have been Night, painted over in Sky, painted over in Dark Green. - it was a 198 Squadron aircraft which had previously been with 266 Squadron. Just how far this practice extended remains obscure. A photograph of 121 Wing Typhoons on B.3 (I/139), on or about 15 June 1944, shows a mix of dark and light spinners, as does film of this Wing at B.5 in early and mid-July. However in film shot a few weeks later, early in August, nearly all the Typhoons shown have (apparently) Night spinners. The well-known film of 198 and 609 Squadrons at Thorney Island on D-Day (I/136-7) shows predominantly dark-toned spinners, as does the photograph on this page of 164 Squadron aircraft taking off at Thorney - but were they Night, upper surface camouflage colours or flight colours? Photographs and film of 609’s PR-L strongly suggest a red spinner - in line with flight colours but other evidence is inconclusive (to these authors at least). For the other Typhoon wings during the Normandy campaign there is insufficient evidence from which to draw definite conclusions, however, what there is, does suggest that 124 Wing retained Sky spinners on most of their Typhoons, as did 143 (RCAF) Wing - with the exception of 439 Squadron, which favoured eccentric (in both senses of the word) blotches on their spinners - White on Night or Night on Sky. The intention was, apparently, that the flickering effect would distract the flak gunners - a split second could make all the difference. 123 Wing (which included 198 and 609 as above) spinners were predominantly dark as were those of 146 Wing. After this was written I had access to a spotter's notebook from 1944. He was active in Hampshire during the invasion period and had notes on the Typhoons at Hurn. Mostly these recorded serials and/or codes but some (presumably what he saw as non-standard) spinner colours were noted. 183 Sqn (HF) with grey spinners and 263 Sqn (HE) some black and some blue. I do not know how much Jack G is concerned with accuracy for his model but in its unaltered form the kit presents an impossible variant - ie. a combination of 4-blade propeller with the small original tailplane. It also features faired exhausts which abandoned just as the 4-blader was entering service. And if the kit RP are used they need to be rotated through 45 degrees on the rails. CT

No source is quoted in the book. All I would say that Ziegler was a well-respected journalist and writer with, no doubt, good connections. The 'hundreds' could be an exaggeration but, on the other hand, I can imaging the Gestapo arresting anyone with the slightest connection to the names on the alleged list.

Hi Jerry. Well I'm pulling together material for a possible Tempest II album. Longer term I'd like to do something on Fighter Command Typhoons but don't know if I can summon the commitment! The older I get (it seems to keep happening) the harder it gets. I've never found a photo of Sir John Grandy's 'JG'. I think the only original illustration was from Mike Bowyer's spotting notes and appeared in his 'Fighting Colours. It was with Duxford Station Flight from 25 April 42 to 22 January 43 when, as you say, it went to 193 Sqn. Maurizio, if you can get away from the desire to hang bombs on your Typhoon, the aircraft you mention, D, F, and G, are much better documented than PR-S. I did a comprehensive and fully illustrated article on PR-G for MAM some 14 years ago and can send scans if you pm me with your email. From autumn 1942 to spring 43, Typhoon markings saw a number of changes and PR-G is illustrated in 6 different guises. I'll also find someone to post some photos of PR-F and PR-D for me. Tally Ho! Chris

Hell Maurizio, that is a well-posed question. Sqn Ldr Roland Beamont dropped 609 son's first bombs from a Typhoon during two practice bombing exercises on 13 and 14 April 1943. The bombs were 250lb concrete practice bombs and the Typhoon used on both occasions was DN547 PR-S, which was the only bomber Typhoon the squadron possessed at the time. A month later, on May 14, Flg Off Van Lierde dropped their first bombs (2 x 250lb) in anger during a night intruder; he was also flying the same PR-S. There are photos of this aircraft in various publications. The above information comes from the Squadrons Operations Record Book plus Beamont's and Van Lierde's log books. So PR-G, Beamont's personal aircraft, R7752, nor Lallemant's PR-D, R7855 never carried bombs and PR-F, DN406 PR-F Peter Raw's Typhoon is also unlikely to have carried them. Presumably these are the 3 aircraft in your decal choices. Most of the first half of 1943 (when all the aircraft mentioned operated) 609 was a dedicated fighter squadron (other Typhoon units were 'bombers' eg, 3, 181 and 182 Sqns). 609 were heavily engaged in defensive patrols with occasional escort to other squadrons engaged in bombing (Typhoons, Whirlwinds, medium bombers etc).

I'm with Terry on this one, and I'll raise the two bob to half a crown. The account fails to reveal the downside to de Selys' undeniably courageous attack. According to Frank Ziegler, in his 'Under the White Rose' (and Ziegler was 609's intelligence officer at the time) one of those killed in the Gestapo building was a British agent and had on his person a list of contacts, which led to hundreds being arrested. Ziegler states that he had been trying to get permission for the attack for some time; it is apparent why it was not forthcoming.

Here we go Steve. I'm not familiar with the detail of the Spitfire bomb carriers but I would have thought that the fairings would have been designed to fit the underside of the wing, which probably differed from that of the Typhoon. Furthermore, there were two designs of bomb carrier used on Typhoons. The initial design (illustrated in the drawings above) was good only for bombs up to 500 lbs. From April 1944 1000 lb bomb carriers were fitted, which were broader and more streamlined. 1000 lb bombs could not be carried on the earlier design as incorrectly shown in the drawings. The 1000 lb carriers were also fitted in a different position - further outboard - almost centrally between the two cannon. This was to take advantage of a stronger part of the wing structure. To complicate matters further, from mid-1944 most bombers were Typhoons fitted with 4-bladers (I think the Academy kit just had a 3-blader supplied?). So, also being limited to a sliding (aka 'bubble' but not by me) canopy, your choice of decals (assuming you want authentic markings) will be pretty limited ie. to Typhoons in service during a few months at the beginning of 1944. I have just seen the photo of the anti-personnel bombs above. The carrier is the later (1000lb) carrier. CT

The photo shows EK497 which was used for RP trials by Hawker and A&AEE. Taken on charge by Hawker 8 June 1943, tested (as illustrated) at A&AEE August 1943. Later tested with Mk III rails in April/May 1944. Operational car-door Typhoons with RP were in 181 Sqn (first ops Oct 43), 609 and 198 Sqns (brief use Dec43/Jan44), 174, 175 and 182 Sqns spring 44 to July 44. Most Typhoons had RP and new canopies done at the same time in spring 44 but RP mods were the priority so the units with car-door/RP aircraft were the last to have them replaced. 174, 181 and 182 Sqns all operated car-door/RP Typhoons after D-Day. Photos of these Typhoons are scarce but there are some in publications I have authored or co-authored. I also supplied details for one which features in the Airfix 1/24 car-door Typhoon kit. There are some photos of bomber Typhoons which are known to have carried RP at times (until spring 44 bombs and RP were interchangeable and although they retained that facility the units specialised in one or the other after that). However, as you are making EK497, I won't list the refs here, unless you change your mind. Or if anyone else is interested. CT

Not wishing to sound too smug but I bought mine when they first came out. I had known Roger for years and knew the effort that was going in to the series. I was so pleased for him (and myself!) when he battled through his illness to publish the third volume. If JM Smith can get one for £60 (the original price) it will be a bargain, real value for money and a decision he is unlikely to regret. I think books are underpriced today, despite extremely small print runs. Just as a comparison, in 1969 and only after much deliberation, I bought John Rawlings' 'Fighter Squadrons'. It was £6 and I was earning what today would be close to the 'minimum wage'. An online inflation calculator tells me that would be £97 nowadays. CT

From 'Cold War Shield Vol 1'.... WK722, the CO's a/c in the foreground, was damaged in a accident during 601's first visit to Malta with Meteor F.8s, and that dates your photo to between 12 and 14 June 1954. From that it is possible to identify the other Meteors as for which codes are visible, as B WH364, C WH349, D WK739, E WK740, F WK742, G WK744, H WK745, and J WK783. If the list is complete and the dates are correct (and I see no reason why not during this period), there is only one possibility for the last Meteor in the line-up - K WK789. You really do need to get a copy of CWS 1.

Thanks Jun, memory wasn't too bad then, but wrong about the spinner.. note for the modeller; the photos came from a former 226 OCU student and his recollection of their Tempests were that they were scruffy and poorly maintained. However he went on to fly Tempest VIs with 213 Sqn.

If the BWC Museum refs are not completely helpful, I do have a couple of shots of XL-Y, but I am away from records for a few weeks. Certainly it did not have the white identity markings and the codes were black and maybe the spinner. IIRC (a big if) the serial was PR555. I used one of the photos in 'Typhoon and Tempest Story'.

It is RAF Museum, Hendon, Archives that you need to contact. Internet for the number and then speak direct.

Backplate looks ... maybe Sky ... but logic would say white. Your call! repainted side down to the white chin stripe definitely fresh OG.

I'm glad you asked that question Mike. 20 years have passed since the T&T Aces book and some further hints have led me to reassess my interpretation. Back in 1999 I was passing on what was 'perceived wisdom' gleaned from researchers who had gone before, but I now believe that the two-tone spinners originated with a misinterpretation of the poorly-worded order which reinstated camouflage on the nose when the white nose markings were removed. The initial order said that the portion in front of the blades was to be Sky with camouflage aft of that; it was later amended to to state the complete spinner was to be Sky. After a close look at photos of 609's Typhoons in the early months of 1943 it seems to me that the rear half of the spinners match up with one of the camouflage colours. Later this may have changed to 'Flight colours' or even black. Looking at the front view of PR-Z, published in the Osprey Aces book, it appears that the rear of the spinner matches the Ocean Grey where it has been used to paint out the white. Furthermore, a colour photo of a 609 pilot has turned up, which shows the leading edge letter in Yellow. Looking at the PR-Z photo again it does seem that the 'Z' on the LE matches the Yellow stripe along the wing. So my best (partly informed) guess would now be OG/Sky spinner and Yellow code on the LE. CT

The 195 Squadron ORB is unusual in that it records all flights, both operational and non-operational. It seems JP405 was one of 3 Typhoons delivered on 5 July 1943. On 6, 7 and 8 July it made a total of 12 flights, all of which were tests or training flights except for one at 2155 on 7 July when it was one of two Typhoons scrambled to intercept a pair of Fw 190s. Unfortunately they were unable to make contact. F/Sgt Vause was airborne on 1035 on 8 July, for "Cine Gun and Low Flying" exercises. He crashed at 1120 during the latter exercise. The Form 78 'movement card' has just two entires recording its arrival with the squadron on 6 July and the flying accident, category E, on 8 July. There is also the Form 1180 'accident card' which records brief details of the accident for statistical purposes. Copies of both these cards can be obtained from the RAF Museum Archives department.

Hello Mike Thanks for the vote of confidence (?) but I worked with Airfix mainly on external colours. I do not have any good reference for much of the interior, although (from surviving parts) it would seem much was painted silver. However, I do not think this would be the case with self-sealing tanks, and although red (oxide) seems to be prominent on Hurricanes, the surviving Typhoon wing leading edge tank on display at Duxford is black. Unless anyone can come up with something more conclusive, that would be my choice. CT