Chris Thomas

That may be good for the car-door variants but the production sliding-hood Typhoons had the area under the canopy, when closed, painted Night (black). I have some photos of the 56 Sqn formation Tokyo Raider mentions but I do not find them so convincing; they were shot in April 1943. It was a press day and many photos taken on the ground also exist. One such is US-H photographed from the rear and above - shot from the top of a blast pen. Under the rear canopy looks ocean grey to me. However, I should say this seem to be a period when operational units were painting the cockpits black - in order to reduce canopy reflections during the increasing numbers of night time operations. Typhoon cockpits had started in 'cockpit green' but the cockpit above the seat level was painted black on production aircraft some time in late spring/early summer. So there may well be variation in the way the black was applied to service aircraft during this period - possibly including black aft of the seat armour. If the edge of the car-door is visible it can be an indicator of green or black cockpit. DN374 US-A photographed c.Feb 43 was green whereas most (if not all) of those on 21 April 1943) were black. Dirty Dora (EK134) about the same period (April) was also black ... but I would opt for camo behind the headrest. As stated above, the standard factory paint-job on sliding-hood Typhoons was black on the fuselage under the canopy.

I agree with Dennis, although I would say the evidence is not completely conclusive. I've never found any documentation on the change in wheel type on Typhoons but, judging by photographic evidence, the changeover on the production line was between DN411 and DN421, i.e. Typhoons deliver mid December 1942. Typically, the pre-DN421 Typhoons would remain in service until late summer 1943. Which Typhoon decals have you chosen to use? Chris

Hi Irwin As you suspected, there are not definitive answers to all your questions. 1) Certainly black above the the tubular structure (which was anodised silver) but below that I think it was cockpit grey/green. No documentation to prove this but my conclusions come from photos and artefacts. NB. the area behind the head armour was black. All this black was to reduce reflections on the canopy and dates from spring 1943 when Typhoons were sometimes used on night operations.. 2) As above posts - Aluminium (painted) 3) Correct as above. 4) The cuckoo door filter was removable and again I have found no documentary evidence but there are a number of photos that show they were removed during the winter period - Nov 44 to Feb 45. They did reduce performance so in non-dusty conditions it made sense to remove them. Mostly it seems that the concentric vanes in the centre of the radiator were replaced, although there a a few photos which show Typhoons without vanes or filter. I do not know how long Priller's A-8 was in use but Stapleton's MP126 arrived with 247 Sqn at the end of August 1944 and was shot down on 5 Dec 44 when flown by another pilot. The red spinners seem to have been introduced late September or early October - the whole of 124 Wing had them (137, 181, 182, 247 Sqns) by 2nd week of October at the latest. Probably applied at Eindhoven to help ATC and waiting ground crews differentiate between the Typhoons of 124 and 143 Wings. Incidentally, Typhoon pilots claimed some 50 enemy aircraft after the invasion - at a quick count 16 were Fw 190s - but such clashes were a rarity and to give some measure of that I like to quote Kit North-Lewis. From April 1944 to March 1945 he flew 175 operational sorties as a flight commander (182 Sqn), squadron commander (181 Sqn) and Wing Commander (124 Wing) and never saw a Luftwaffe fighter in the air, except on New Years Day 1945 - and he was on the ground! CT

I believe the Airfix kit has a correctly positioned 1000 lb bomb carrier. This position was not used for LRTs - they employed the same location as the earlier bomb carriers ie. almost under the inner cannon. It was not possible to carry bomb and LRT on the same wing simultaneously, but the 1000 lb bomb carrier could be (and was) left in place when LRT were carried on Typhoons so-equipped.

If you can get in Smith's have a look at the current Flypast. Oh dear ... I think it is in a plastic bag.

The caption in 'Spitfire XVI The Dominions' reflects what I wrote in 2ndTAF Vol 3 when I used the same photo. I knew the photo was captioned as postwar in the IWM collection but had my doubts; the IWM photo is a copy of an RCAF photo. I went back to RCAF records and established an approximate date for the photo as late March or early April 1945 - which indicated the base was B.90. CT

Just to expand on the matter of roundels on postwar BAFO Tempests. Initially of course their Tempests were ex-2ndTAF machines so they had 'Type C1' roundels in all positions ie with yellow outer rings and inner white rings. In the last quarter of 1945 new Tempests replaced some of the war-weary specimens and these were delivered in Fighter Command style markings, ie. no yellow rings on upper or lower wing roundels and still wearing the rear fuselage Sky band. These markings were retained in BAFO service. Serials were in the SN300 range. Underwing serial sizes, which on the Mk.Vs were service applied rather than factory (no doubt leading to some variation) were sized according to a formula based on 50% of the wing chord. As the roundels were already in position the serials were well inboard, where the chord on the Tempest was at its deepest. I have recently assessed the size of the underwing serials on Tempest IIs (which were factory-applied) and they are in the region of 48 inches high. They overran the wing and almost met under the centre of the fuselage. I have not carried out this exercise on Tempest Vs but I think they would be similar. By the time the Tempest VIs left the factory, the underwing roundels were move out to the wingtips with the serials immediately inboard and their height was reduced to 32 inches. CT

The Typhoon/Tempest booklet you have been reading contains a lot of useful information but it is badly organised, with some unfortunate typos and some relevant facts are missing. So no wonder you found it difficult to read. 29 September 1942 The yellow stripe was applied in response to several 'blue on blue' incidents; above and below the wing. 2 November 1942 White noses and black stripes under the wings were added - yellow stripes remained over the wings. late November early December 1942 White noses removed and white stripes added between the black ones 3 February 1943 Yellow stripes over wings removed in 11 Group (after Fw190s spotted with same marking). c. July 1943 Yellow wing stripes removed in 10 and 12 Groups All the above compiled from official records.

Which is what you would expect as the photo was taken on 11 February 1943. US-T DN277 overshot its landing run at Matlask.

I suspected that might be the case. The position was changed to take advantage of a better load-bearing position in the wing structure.

Correct

I know that 4-blader Typhoons were preferred as 1000 lb bomb carriers (due better take-off performance) but as far as I know there was bo restriction on 3-bladders.

I'm sure you know a lot more about bomb carriers than I do Selwyn, but the fairing and the position on the wing both differed for the 1000 lb carrier that was fitted to Typhoons from April 44, as opposed to the 500 lb carrier on earlier Typhoons. Perhaps the actual carrier mechanism was the same? I'll try to find some photos to post.

Thanks for the heads-up Troy. Brilliant find and great detective work by all. The only 438 Hurricane shot I had seen was of a group of their pilots doing their best to obscure the markings (quite successfully). Sending this to Troy for posting. The only thing I can add is that the 3 RCAF squadrons (438, 439 and 440) which became the 143 Wing - always equipped as Typhoon bombers - were originally planned to be RP Typhoon units. Hence their initial equipment with Hurricane IV RP. This did not change until the end of January 1944 when their first Typhoons arrived. RP Typhoons were in short supply and the priority was to equip the established Typhoon units first - hence the change to bombers. 143 Wing kept some Hurricanes until April 44 at least and then, as well as the early Typhoons with the unit, carried temporary squadron codes (as they were not yet allocated RAF codes) which where a small single letter with a normal sized code the other side of the roundel. 438 used 'x', 439 'y' and 440 'z'. Some examples at Hurn in April 44 were Typhoons x-B MM959, y-S JR299 and z-X JR431 and Hurricanes x-K KZ221 and x-P KZ612. The same spotter recorded LD863 as 'S' without the accompanying small letter (which nicely confirms the identification of the photo above.

Excellent! Many thanks for doing the legwork. CT

I was actually at Specsavers this morning, ordering some new glasses! Good spot Dave.l can't think why the codes should have been overpainted ... so maybe they were red. But why? Answers in large print please.

Great find Gomtuu, very helpful indeed. I looked at all the Tempest photos (including the one just before the Spit Pilots Notes - captioned as a Spit 16) An there was no trace of codes either side of the roundels - where I would have expected to see some indication at least. So codes on the nose only - apparent from 'M' there is another, 'U', visible in the Tempest line-up. I have only ever found one report (from an immediate post war 'spotter) of a KZ code (JN764 KZ-R, widely reported in other reference books), so I am wondering how certain that code is. The shot of the 'Spit 16' is very useful as it shows the small blister mid-way along the wing root fairing, that was unique to the Series 1; it covered the Typhoon centre section (from a cancelled Typhoon contract) which was used on the first 50 aircraft - to expedite production.The protruding cannon of the Mk.V series one are visible in several shots.

Aah. Good thought Graham. They could well be Typhoon style identity stripes which were carried by Tempests from entry into service through to 20 April 44 when they were ordered to be removed. It is unlikely they would have survived on any of the Tempests until February 1945 (the date of the 287 Sqn Tempest crash) which suggests to me that the photo has been misidentified and actually does depict JN759 which was 'Cat B' due battle damage on 10 May 44. The stripes should have been removed by then but ....? It was SA-R of 486 Sqn at the time and went to Odiham two days later, presumably for repair at the Forward Repair Unit or which was based there.

Thanks for that info. Yes, I am afraid that 3 Sqn's ORB is awash with similar anomalies, which is one of the reasons I did not wish to attempt to list individual aircraft V1 scores. I have found that the accuracy of ORBs varies from unit to unit and period to period and 3 Sqn's is (engage polite mode) one of the most challenging to the researcher. One Typhoon in 1943 was recorded as lost in action on 3 separate dates. Thank you Gomtuu; that is very interesting indeed. I've been searching in vain, for a long time, for a photo of a 287 Sqn Tempest V. I'd be very grateful if you, or anyone else who reads this, can direct to the source. 287 Sqn used 15 of these early Tempests (including the famous JN751, formerly R-B) apparently with KZ codes but JN759 was not one of them - having been destroyed in a crash on 6 August 44.

Yes, I can confirm it, I wrote it. I didn't make it up - the information came from a Form 1180 Accident card. After the accident on 23 June 44, JN769 was recategorised as Cat B (ie. repairable at a major repair facility) and allocated to Hawker for repair. It was ready for collection on 11 October 44 and was reported at 20 MU, Aston Down, two days later. By 6 December it was reported with 287 Sqn - a second-line unit with anti-aircraft co-operation duties at Gatwick. As it was a Series 1 Tempest V with no facilities for LRT, RP or bombs it was of no use to the 2nd TAF Tempest units. Most of the surviving Series 1 Tempests ended up with 287 Sqn. Whose Delivery Logs are you quoting Geoffrey? CT

JF-M was JN812, the 3 Sqn CO's aircraft - Sqn Ldr Alan Dredge; it was one of the first Mk V Series 2 aircraft and was used by the squadron from 4 June 44 to 1 October 44 (when it was shot down by flak with the loss of its pilot, Wt Off Reid, during the unit move up to its winter base, B.80 Volkel). I don't know how many V-1s it shot down but Dredge claimed 5, at least two in JN812. In theory you could trawl through 3 Sqn's ORB to see if other pilots made claims in it, but I'll leave that to you (from downloads from the National Archive at present). Incidentally, for 2 days or so, JN812 carried 3 Sqn's codes 'QO' before they were painted out on 5 June and replaced by 'JF' (you can see the overpainting in the photo). Eduard provide these short-lived codes in one of their Tempest V boxings. JF-G was JN769, a Series 1 Tempest V. It was badly damaged on 23 June when it undershot the airfield our engine trouble. It went to Hawkers for repair.

I wrote an article on this topic which was published in Model Aircraft Monthly, December 2006. There was only one true Typhoon night fighter, R7881. It got as far as trials with the Fighter Interception Unit in the last quarter of 1943 and even flew a small number of operational sorties over London; they were uneventful. When 486 Sqn equipped with Typhoons in late July/August 1942, it was intended that they would operate with Turbinlite Bostons and a handful of their Typhoons were painted accordingly, ie. with black undersides and red code letters. However trials revealed that the Typhoon/Boston combination was incompatible and in September the whole of the Typhoon force was reorganised and the night fighter role was abandoned. During 1943 some Typhoon squadrons flew (night) Intruders but their aircraft retained the Day Fighter Scheme. CT

RP fittings were incorporated on the Typhoon production line shortly after the introduction of the sliding hood ('bubble') and shortly before the introduction of the large tailplane and 4-blader. However there were a large number of earlier Typhoons which were modified with RP and new canopies in the spring of 1944. This means that you are restricted to Typhoons with serial numbers before MN307, but it will include modified Typhoons, mainly from the JP and JR serial ranges but also a smattering from the R, DN, EJ and EK serial ranges. CT

Thanks Troy. The paintings are new to me; they look like Langley. Both the Typhoons shown have markings applied in service and therefore are probably there for mods and/or repairs. Will do a bit of digging and report back.

The Typhoon in the photo is R8830 EL-U, on loan from 181 Sqn to A&AEE for low-level bombing trials, in March 1943. I suspect the cannon had been removed as they were on a separate charge to the airframe and the squadron needed to retain them as 20mm cannon were still in short supply.