Kari Lumppio

Hi! Thank You for the tip! Waiting for ID stripes film (still some seven hours for the premier while writing this). Watched the "Flying in the Hawker Hurricane" film there to whet the appetite. Whoever does the same, note how the exhaust stains change/grow during just one sortie. Not really news, but still interesting. Cheers, Kari

Hi! Anyone can check P-47 data at the site above. I did not know it's existence before don f posted! The P-47 page is dated July 2023 so is quite recent. My japanese is zero, even with Google translate cannot find who is the author. But thanks to him/her. Author is Jumpei Temma, it is written on the drawing! The site has fuselage 3d data as sample numerical table and the source given is manufacturer's drawings! I hotlink below the engine cowling from the soyuoy-site (the numbers on table title column: 0, 10, 20 are angles from vertical, 90 is horizontal (= width) and 180 would have been down from the origo but is cut from the picture): Station 71 (sta71) is at cowling trailing edge (or near). From table above we see the height above reference origo 30.31 inches. From this tabulated data the site author has prepared drawings, see below. I have created with cad-program (at work and hobby) parts from both 3d-scans and tabulated data as seen above. In my opinion the numerical data is better. The resulting cross section curves are smoother because there is fewer points. Taking cross sections from 3d-scan can be quite wavy and uneven. Below I hotlink the soyuoy-drawing of P-47. Would have liked to take only snippet of sta71 cross section but don't know how. See the cross section sta71. Height above reference origo is 30.31 inches which matches value given in the table above. Height 40.30 inches below. Numbers is the main thing I am interested in this drawing as they are said to be sourced from original aircraft manufacturer's material. Cheers, Kari

Hi! The soyuyo -site link don f gave is just excellent! Thanks! Also the kit comparison photo is excellent. The height difference at cowling trailing edge (about station 71) is about 1 mm or so, or 3 inches in real life. The dimensioned P-47 drawing at soyuyo-site shows that fuselage height at station 71 is 30.31" + 43.36" = 1871 mm. In 1/72 scale that is 26,0 mm. I measured my Revell P-47M fuselage height at front without cowling. More exactly at the panel line about half millimeter behind the front "wall" of the fuselage part. I measured 26,0 mm with my calipers. I think Revell is the correct one here. Thanks for the interest and all answers. Cheers, Kari

Hi! I am also interested about Revell' s 1/72 P-47D bubbletop. On what is it based the fuselage is too deep? The P-47D I saw with my own eyes in Zagreb museum this Summer has more pronounced belly than I was expecting. Checked even my photos in this same phone. Don't have ability to link photos now. As I understand many older models and drawings ignored this bulge or show it much less pronounced. Which was not structural but created to cover the bomb carriage? Earlier P-47s did not have the bulge. So iwhere one can find reliable dimensional data on this item (fuselage bottom bulge)? Cheers, Kari

Hi! This thread is starting to get serious, good. Do original Morane Saulnnier factory drawings and manuals give any information about these items?: Engine thrust angles (numbers) down? left? I've seen argument from respectable source that there was not any Wing airfoil root: location definition, chord, thickness in %? tip: location definition, chord, thickness in %? I realize may be asking too much. Cheers, Kari

Hi! Try to find Vingtor decals 72-107 "de Havilland Mosquito Mk.VI - B.O.A.C" https://vingtor.net/72.html#thumb Haven't those myself, but Vingtor is quality producer. He is member here, too. Cheers, Kari

I quickly paged through the Vis last hope and saw only two-three Hurricane photos. The most interesting one is on page 205: W/Cdr Selby's Hurricane IIc JBoS, which was used on "special operations" of some kind. The book does not tell what and I did not find serial for the plane, Unfortunately the photo quality is quite poor. Cheers, Kari

Hi! Almost half-way through Danijel Frka's Vis the Last Hope - RAF Station Vis 1944-1945. A great book. On p. 193 is mentioned that left wing of Hurricane IV KZ243 is exhibited at Belgrade Air Museum. Tried a search, but Google images was not my friend today. This wing certainly is genuine Mark IV Hurricane wing as the plane was shot down Aug 27, 1944. So images of the wing remains should be the "right stuff". If one could only find such. I am aware of the Belgrade LD975 and Birmingham KX829 (was it ever RP?). Is there any photos of the KZ243 "Y"? None in the book nor prodced by my internet searches. Cheers, Kari

I agree this is the key question. Yes, there were Luftwaffe standard fuel triangles. But what write into ithe triangle when the required fuel was anilline douped near C3 equivalent B4 without type code? Anilline is also red dye, perhaps red colour on some visible place? In any case, the general unferstanding is that red legs were related to fuel requirements. Cheers, Kari

Hi! Nick Beale's excellent Ghostbombers site has something for also this topic: http://www.ghostbombers.com/markings/inv1.html Cheers, Kari

Hi! 248 Sqn started operations from Banff September 1944 so I expect only fuselage invasion striped or no stripes on Norway missions. Below are Mosquito XIII codes from 248 ORBs. Cannot guarantee 100% accuracy, the document quality was not the best. I did record each letter only once per day even if they flew more flights (rare occasion). Serial/code ties from EwenS post. It seems these two data sets do not fully agree. Edit: It is likely the Xs an Ks I have picked should be Z instead. Cheers, Kari 248 Sqn Mosquito XIII 5.9.44 L 7.9.44 I, O 14.9.44 L, O, E, H 17.9.44 I, E, O, H 18.9.44 O, E1, O, H 19.9.44 H, L, O 22.9.44 I, L, E, E1 24.9.44 I, E 27.9.44 L,O, E 28.9.44 E, L 30.9.44 H, O, E 1.10.44 L, E 3.10.44 E, H, I, E1 4.10.44 E 8.10.44 T1, E 14.10.44 E1, I 17.10.44 L, O, H, E 19.10.44 H, E, E1, T1 21.10.44 K1, E1, O, T 23.10.44 H, K1, E1, O 26.10.44 K1, T1, E1 28.10.44 T1, O 29.10.44 O, H, T1 30.10.44 O, T1 8.11.44 T1, Z1, E 9.11.44 X1, H, E 11.11.44 O, H 14.11.44 Z, E1 16.11.44 O, Z 18.11.44 O, Z 21.11.44 Z, T1, H, E1, O, L 23.11.44 Z1, L 25.11.44 Z, H1?, X1,L 29.11.44T1, H 30.11.44 z, Z1 5.12.44 E1, T1, H, Z1 7.12.44 O, Z, Z1, T1 8.12.44 T1, Z (X?) 10.12.44 E1, L 16.12.44 T1, H 23.12.44 E1, H 26.12.44 T1, Z1 28.12.44 H, E1 6.1.45 K1, T1 9.1.45 X, T1, E1 10.1.45 T1, E1 11.1.45 Z 13.1.45 Z, Z1 15.1. Z, Z1, E1, S1 After that, no Mosquito XIII recorded in 248 ORB

Hi! Holy threadresurrection. Talking to myself after fourteen years. So the very topic is Hurricane BD761 in RAF night fighter colours and markings, September 1941 Having recently downloaded 253 Sqn ORBs I have found that BD761 arrived to the squadron 28.8.1941 from 46 MU as a replacement. It did fly seven flights with the unit in September 1941 and then disappears from the record. Finnish aviation history magazine Suomen Ilmailuhistoriallinen Lehti in itsvery first issue 1/1994 had comprehensive article about Soviet Hurricanes in Finland. Of BD761 it writes about that the plane was shipped to Soviet Union 12.10.1941. During the wreck examination after fatal collision it was noted that the plane was black and had wing marking of blue circle and red circle within. Independently, a former AAA veteran in his memories writes about Soviet fighter troika with RAF insignia strafing in same time and area where the Morane MS-329+Hurricane BD761 collision took place December 4th, 1941. The veteran's AAA unit diary also writes about "English fighters". So BD761 still wore RAF night fighter camouflage and insignias when lost. I did search all the 253 Sqn contemporary (= Sep 1941) Hurricane serials on interwebs and only Z3971 brought up a photo. But this is from 1942: https://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Hurricane/RAF-253Sqn-SW/pages/Hurricane-IIb-RCAF-253Sqn-SWS-Z3971-lined-up-at-Hibaldstow-Lincolnshire-1942-IWM-CH4391.html Illustrations and models seen on Internet show both red and Medium Sea Gray codes and serials Hurricane Z3971 SWoS, but which is right or does it depend on the time period? All the original questions still stand. For a September 1941 Hurricane BD761 in night fighter colours and markings: what black? serial colour red or Medium Sea Gray? insignia wing undersides, yes/no? what type of RAF insignia? Like on the linked photo of Hurricane Z3971 from 1942? what type of fin flash? Like on the linked photo of Hurricane Z3971 from 1942? I hope this round brings the answers, there is a lot of expertise on the forum. Cheers, Kari

Hi! This Airfix kit was also the very first I tried to cobble together last century. No tools whatsoever and PVA (or Bostik?) glue. Decals cut out and glued on with paper. Did not know better. Demonstrably it can be finished also as a very nice model! Cheers, Kari

Hi! Lighter, brighter green on Lw planes. Ikarol 201 primer? Cheers, Kari

Thanks for posting this intriguing photo where Mid Upper Gun turret is not showing. 617 Sqn ORB (Form 540) 11.9.1944 (November) "Lancaster I ME.559 Up 1901 Down 0540 Bombing "TIRPIZ", Alten Fjord. 12 J.W. Mines. Aircraft crash landed in Russia and was unable to participate in this operation. (Aircraft written off Cat E)." 7 men crew, roles given as in the ORB: "PILOT.", "F/ENG.", "NAV", "A/B.", "W/OP.", "M.U." and "R.G.". Does M.U. stand for Mid Upper (gunner)? His rank was "F/S" Flight Sergeant? And the plane was not a Tallboy carrier, it had Johnny Walker mines. BTW Did all IX Sqn Lancasters wear aircraft code (WS- * ) on horizontal tail during the September 1944 Tirpitz raid (Paravane)? I do remember seeing photo(s) of one or two crash landed in Russia and having the said code on tail. The Wingleader Lancaster photo book said something about the codes but cannot find my example right now. Cheers, Kari

Hi! There was three major Lancaster raids against Tirpitz: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Allied_attacks_on_the_German_battleship_Tirpitz IX and 617 Sqn ORBs do show 7 men crews on the September 1944 raid (Paravane) and 6 men crews for the October (Obviate) and November (Cathechism) raids. From IX Sqn ORB (Form 540) 12/11(1944): "Each of the attacking aircraft carried one 12,000 lb. Tallboy bomb. aircraft were modified to carry overload petrol - no Mid Upper Gunner being carried." So the answer is it depends on the time. Cheers, Kari

Ciao! I have long pondered if the Fw 190 arrived to JG54 in three colour camo? At least some. I Gruppe /JG 26 and 7./JG 26 operated over Eastern Front during first hafl of 1943 ( https://www.ww2.dk/air/jagd/jg26.htm ). And at least some of them were in three colour camo. Not the best netiquette, but here is link of my posting of the topic in other forum (terrifying to see that it was 13 year ago!): Mietusch 7./JG26, Leningrad area & three-color camo Fw 190s http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=8108 It is possible three colour camo Fw 190 were sighted also at the La Manche area: Italian FW190's? http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=18458 So why not such planes could also arrive to JG 54? And the last addition from me to the speculations. When seeing modern good quality colour photos of the Fw 190 recovered from Russia in seemingly intact condition I remember thinking that the colours, especially darker brown looked like French (Brun Mat, http://memorial.flight.free.fr/nuancier.html ). But what do I know. Wild imagination? Cheers, Kari PS I relearned (by reading my own old postings) that: June 1943 III/JG 26 12 Fw 190 A-4&A-5 "an andere verbände" 4./JG 54 12 Fw 190 A-4&A-5 "von andere verbände" And the Fw 190 recovered from Russia was from 4./JG 54 and lost in July 19th, 1943

Hi! Lockheed manufactured wooden monocoque fuselages already in late 1920's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Vega Shpon means veneer. It is not at all the same as delta wood. Plywood is lamination of veneers. I am pretty sure Lockheed manufactured fuselages and certainly at least experimented making double curvature fairings from cross laminated veneers in 1930's. The linked wiki article writes only aboit plywood sheets. Not sure it is correct. Quite a lot of of technologies were transferred from USA to Soviet Union in late 1920's to early 1930's (Ford et al). Cheers, Kari

Hi! Separated from my sources few hundred kilometres, but from memory it was German method used already in 1930's! Schwartz-method was in use for the British and American WW2 era wooden propellers. NACA and/or Forest Products Laboratory (FPL) in USA did quite a lot of good research on Compeg-wood. Which is the material of the center "spar" of that type of wooden blade. I've studied them because of my work. BTW Soviet delta-wood is the exact same thing. Somehow they think it is something unique (Russian nyeanalog syndrome). Cheers, Kari

Hi! My experience is from 180 hp glider tow plane wood propellers. I would expect every ww2 wooden propeller have a metal sheathing on blade leading edge. At least the Finnish ones by VL did have. Brass or steel. Sand and other debris do hit on the blade thrust side and leading edge. Thrust side is the back side which is almost straigt with the common propeller airfoils Clark Y and RAF 6. Thrust side was where I did small repairs with epoxy and paint. Seldom (never?) there was any noticeable on the front side of blades. Don't know if this is of any help. Cheers, Kari

Grazie mille! To Massimo, too. Page 9 has the real "Tractor Green" Хаки СТЗ. Where the real uptake is that even if Zavod 153 Yaks were painted with tractor paint, there is no real change in the colour. Forest/olive type green. EDIT and no more than 50 g/m^2 needed when for example A-24M needed 55 g/m^2 with brush and (85 g/m^2) sprayed. Very good to see the whole album photographed. When I last (second) time had the Albom available I had digicamera capable of making something like 8 high resulution colour pictures before the SD memory card was full. So selected photos only. In the first time, no digicamera at all. Cheers, Kari

Hello! Here is one Finnish archive photo of the Anson "158": https://finna.fi/Record/sim.M016-12574 You can download bigger image there. Just recently I saw on Internet five or so more photos of the plane but cannot find them now! Sorry. I know of one interior photo of the Estonian Anson. It was published in a post-war Swedish book. I used to have photocopy, but have lost it. The photo did show probably the same radio one sees in the Finnish Ansons. Cheers, Kari

Hi! As title says. Did Phantom have one piece tailplane or not? Reason for asking: If in photo one sees say left tailplane in different camo than the rest of the aircraft can one assume the whole tailplane is with the same different camo? Or left and right can be different? My googling did not bring anything useful. Cheers, Kari

What I do remember of Fujimi 1/72 MiG-21BIS is that the fuselage is OKish above wing and below wing. But they made the wing like 2 mm too thick (adding the same extra on fuselage height). About twice what is needed. I think one good photo and one functionong eye is needed to see this, no need to be an expert. Once you see it one cannot unsee it any more. Cheers, Kari

Hi! Red legs might be for anilline doped B4 fuel, which did not have own code. Luftwaffe did have fuel triangles or similar for A3, B4, C3, 87 octane, 100 octane etc. "...By adding Anilline it is possible to bring a total of 50% of the fuel production up to the equivalent of C3 quality..." The Secret Horsepower Race (Calum Douglas) p. 395. This was late war emergency solution for the severe lack of C3 fuel. Anilline is red dye (~ pigment), see for example: https://cameo.mfa.org/wiki/Aniline_red#Resources_and_Citations Cheers, Kari PS Luftwaffe Fuel Names: http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=24915