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Ships doc

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  1. Great! I think you can see at least three in the first photo you posted - either side of the fwd funnel and the single one aft of 'X' turret. The ones by the mast are harder to see. But the searchlights are not there anymore, there just seems to be one in the middle. So something must have replaced them.
  2. I have found this article - some profiles of Cairo 1942 towards the end. Not sure of accuracy but hopefully of use. https://web.archive.org/web/20210224225606/http://www.steelnavy.com/LaterCClass.htm
  3. Hi Jeff, I agree - as fitted onslow had twin 0.5in machine guns (very unusual for a destroyer) below the signal lamp bridge wings. These were changed to 20mm oerlikons by Feb 1942. As you say these positions look quite restricted (noticeable when building at 1/96), there were support posts for the bridge wings immediately behind. So I guess they moved them aft for better arcs of fire. This happened mid-late 1942. The Os had a range of AA guns depending on what was available. As you say a few models & plans miss this detail!
  4. Great progress! Agree that small structure is very likely a radar office. Appears on the ship in mid-late 1942 at the same time the bridge oerlikon positions were moved. The structure immediately below it is labelled rdf office on the nmm plans
  5. Just in addition to the above, I re-read the sections in Williams & Hodges books on naval camouflage - both imply that the SEFD scheme was a adaptation of western approaches. Williams also lists western approaches blue as one of the tones - not sure what the primary be evidence for this is though.
  6. @dickrd Thank you for taking the time to look over this & such a detailed reply! I am glad you agree with the assessment. I had not spotted the lower hull below the boot topping on the photos in & leaving John Brown's. I also have the DoY 'Anatomy from building to breaking' book which shows a few photos of Onslow in the background. Interesting that the lower hull paint varied between ships even within the same yard. I will probably go for Red as I already have some of this from @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies. The painting from 'Arctic destroyers' - agree that it came from that still, it is virtually identical. Also interesting is the deterioration in the HFG paint in 1942 from months of operations. I don't think I will try to replicate this.... I think we have discussed the appearances in late 1942 before, thinking white / MS3 / B6 / 507c as most likely (based on tone equivalents in the 1943 design). I noticed recently in the CB3098 1943 there is a reference to the original design for the SEFD scheme: para 181: "In the original design, a shade of green is used instead of the light grey shade G.45 and a shade of blue instead of the blue-grey shade B.30." Reading this I wondered if these could have been western approaches shades? Although I have not seen any reference to this, given that the SEFD base colour is white, and the angular nature of the patterns - would it make sense that SEFD 'evolved' from western approaches, with the MS3/G20 panel added over? In relation to this there is also this painting by Charles Pears: https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-12174 There are issues with the accuracy of this painting (eg. looks like quad 0.5in MG on bridge wings, which Onslow never had, Mast DF is wrong etc) but the record says it was painted in 1943. But I think this does look a bit like a lighter more vivid green on the fwd panel (we previously said MS3, which was a murky green), and a blue tone on the aft superstructure (could be 507c or WA Blue?), and the dark panel on the hull (maybe MS3?). Conscious that this all might be a bit tenuous, esp given issues with interpreting colours from paintings but interested to hear thoughts! Thanks again James
  7. Could I please ask for thoughts on some photos of HMS Onslow for colour schemes? Apologies have asked this before but obsessing over it before committing to putting paint on the model! I'm modelling the ship as was in early 1942 (so before the Barents Sea when she is more often depicted) IWM photos here: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205143145 https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205141602 https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205141486 https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30018259 Note - I think the model was built shortly after ww2. I can't remember where I read this. My plan: Upperworks in admiralty light grey 507c Hull in home fleet grey 507a Decks: RN non-slip deck grey / semtex areas in "admiralty grey" (evidence for above based on photos & model) Boot topping - I think I can make this out in one of the photos so I think yes, but not sure. The IWM model doesn't have one. Lower hull - I think this would be red if I have read the recent evidence on this correctly. Also Onslow was built next to Duke of York, which I think was red (Does this have any influence at all? Or does the shipyard practice not matter?). There is a painting of Onslow on the front of 'Arctic Destroyers', which shows red lower hull and no boot topping. No idea when this was painted though (presumed not in the middle of a raid, so must be on memory/ from similar film footage). No pennant number, black funnel band with white & red ones below as flotilla leader. An anomaly: what colour is the 25ft boat on the port side? Thought it would be in light grey but looks darker. For reference I also have these notes on other times: As built 1941: Overall HFG with white pennant numbers Mid 1942: 507a/507c scheme as above. Late 1942: Early version of SEFD scheme, 4 tones not sure of colours. 1943 after repair SEFD scheme, presumed in new colour series. Looks like simplified to 3 tones but not sure. 1945: Standard scheme with floats in yellow/red Thanks and apologies for the long post! James
  8. This is fantastic! Some of the mast equipment might be signal lights - search for 'visual signalling in the RCN', there is an article & diagram
  9. Thanks Jamie Not sure why but as I get older I seem to be more interested in the personalities & characters behind it all. As someone who has followed this for a while, I think you, Richard and others have done a huge amount of work in advancing our understanding of this, which goes beyond correcting past assumptions and is a body of work in its own right. As you say when doing any research there is always an extra step in getting a conclusion 'over the line'. What I particularly like about the approach you have presented is that you reference back to the original source material so the reader can make their own mind up. Also, given the nature of what you are studying there will always be uncertainties, however it's presented as logical conclusions from the best available evidence (the work on the PoW camo scheme is a great example of this). Good luck! James
  10. Thanks Jamie - interesting! I wonder if the people writing those letters ever thought there would be people discussing their contents 80 years later for the purposes of making very small ships Have you & @dickrd thought about putting this all together in a book? James
  11. Very helpful info re: the colour of Semtex & the BS reference numbers! Could I ask a related question - was the 'dark grey non slip' paint related to 507A in shade/tone? I guess its composition would have to differ to make it non slip, but seems very close in colour?
  12. Superb work ! Those cranes are better than I could do in 1/96 scale
  13. Just to add to the complications - as above there seem to be variations within one type of boat, eg. If you look at the 35ft boat in the drawing on the link (and I suspect photo of Berwick above) it has one cabin and two canvas 'pram covers', whereas if you look at the photo of the 35ft boats on Sydney they have two cabins and one 'pram cover'. I struggled with this when building Suffolk - the best reference I could find was the drawing in the link. I don't know if these variations were because the design was updated over time or they were built locally to a general specification
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