NG899
-
Posts
695 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Events
Profiles
Forums
Media Demo
Posts posted by NG899
-
-
GR3 XZ988 red 34 had the full length airbrake at the time of the Falklands War. It also had the twin ALE40 flare dispensers fitted in the panel behind the airbrake; I believe these are included in the Airfix kit (I make 1/48th or larger myself, so cannot be sure).
For its deployment to the Falklands, notable additions "on the surface" are the I-Band Transponder fitted in the bulged fairing with aerial under the laser-nose and tie down rings added to the outriggers. It also had a small vent ahead of the GTS/APU intake (the mesh covered rectangle on the starboard side engine covers) to help cool the electrical system. The two larger vents you mention earlier were fitted to the GR1/GR1As to vent their different electrical system, upgraded when the GR3 came along.
Drop me a PM with your direct email in it and I'll send you some things to help you.
Cheers
Nick
-
1
-
-
Drop me a PM with your direct email in it and I'll send several things over to help you out with your build of ZA175/004 as flown by Sharkey Ward on that occasion.
Cheers
Nick
-
To make it even better...
Intake interiors not white but dark green on the starboard side , dark sea grey to port.
All the way back to the spinning thingie!
Nice one!
-
1
-
-
800 NAS FRS.1s used them during Ex Arctic Express off the Norwegian coast in early 1983, flying from HMS Hermes.
I cannot recall them being carried in any photos of FA2s.
Happy to be proved wrong on that!
Cheers
Nick
-
1
-
-
Drop me a PM with your direct email address in it and I'll send a few things over to help you out.
Cheers
Nick
-
1
-
-
The ACQN rounds carried by Sea Harrier FRS1s and FA2s still had the bands around their bodies, unlike the 'smooth' ones shown on the Hawk above; two examples can be found here:
https://www.airliners.net/photo/UK-Navy/British-Aerospace-Sea-Harrier-FA2/2099782/L
https://www.airliners.net/photo/UK-Navy/British-Aerospace-Sea-Harrier-FA2/689897/L
Hope that helps if it's a SHAR anyone is hanging these from.
Cheers
Nick
-
With one exception... T.10 ZH653 was retained as a test aircraft by BAES and reportedly was BS4800.12B.25 Spruce Green overall, except for some MSG erosion resistant paint on the intake lips, MSG fin tip aerial panel and strakes.
Now the one problem with this, which the observant will have noticed, is that the BS4800 reference number is the same as that for Lichen Green. Any web search will show that paint manufacturers use both names for the same BS4800 reference number.
(Harriers are complex beasts!)
Cheers
Nick
-
You’ll need the GR7 kit for the nose on the T10 or T12. The CMK resins are simple plug and play replacements for the kit parts at the front end and the fin, with the extended tail sting replacing the kit one.
Look at the build notes on the Harrier SIG website’s modelling pages.
www.harriersig.org.ukThe CMK parts are based on the ones the SIG did, but I was expecting them to do a front U/C bay too.
Cheers
Nick
-
2
-
-
Dansk, Drop me a PM with your email in it and I'll send you something to help with your ordnance questions.
Cheers
Nick
-
Ah-ha! The old Harrier "shape equals mark" trap has caught you out again!
The mark of a Harrier was determined by the type of Pegasus engine fitted:
GR.1 / T.2 - Mk.101; GR.1A / T.2A - Mk.102; GR.3 / T.4 - Mk.103.
It had nothing to do with the shape of the nose, fin or tail cone but was complicated by those changes.
SIngle-Seaters
Early GR.3s had the original nose, fine and tail, but did not have the electrical system vents on the engine covers of the GR.1/1A; the GR.3's different electrical system did not need them. On GR.3s you can see where plates have been fitted over the hole left by the vents removal. Early GR.3s also had mesh covered vents in the bullet-shaped tail fairing and did not have the smaller vent added subsequently ahead of the mesh-covered GTS/APU intake. The GR.3 Phase 4 Modifications added the LRMTS nose, RWR to fin (increased in height by 5-inches) and RWR to the tail fairing.
Two-Seaters
T.2 - Had the original nose, short fin and tapered tail sting. (XW174, XW175, XW264-XW272, XW925.)
T.2A - The last two of the first twelve T-birds were built as T.2A with the Mk.102 Pegasus; that engine was retrofitted to the other 10 T.2s. (XW175, XW264-XW272, XW925-XW934.)
T.4 - Fourteen were new-builds: > XZ145-XZ146, XZ445, ZB600-ZB603, ZD991-ZD993. Three - XZ145-147 - were built as original nose-shaped T.4s with the tall fin and original tail sting. The other new builds were, I believe, fitted with raised GR.3 type standard fins including the RWR fairing, RWR on the tail sting and the LRMTS nose. Many of the T.2s upgraded to T.4 had the original nose, low fin and tail sting shapes. All had the GR.1/3 type airbrake. Many aircraft had the shorter Sea Harrier type airbrake fitted at some date. Photos of the same airframe can show it with both airbrake styles, irrespective of fin heights! Port wing leading edge root light fitted to T.4s XW267, XW269 and XW934 - not sure when. Photos indicate that some aircraft had their lower UHF aerial later offset to starboard, which could indicate that these aircraft had also been fitted with the twin radar altimeter aerials. (XW175, XW265-XW272, XW925-XW934, XZ145-XZ147, XZ445, ZB600-ZB603, ZD990-ZD993.)
Thus, you could have three types of plain T.4:
1. T.2/T.2A airframe with Mk.103 engine = pointed nose, tapered tail sting, low GR.1 type fin, long airbrake.
2. T.4 new build airframe with Mk.103 engine = pointed nose, tapered tail sting, tall fin, long airbrake.
3. T.4 new build airframe with Mk.103 engine = LRMTS nose, RWR tail sting GR.3-type fin with RWR, long (later in life or short) airbrake.My big tip on this... refer to photographs fo the aircraft you wish to build!
Then there's the...
T.4A - Original nose and tail sting shapes retained on the T4As but they had the RWR fin with (empty) RWR fairing fitted. These lighter T-birds were used for flying training only, as they were more responsive than the LRMTS and full RWR fitted airframes. T.4A XZ445 - short airbrake; T.4A ZB604 long airbrake and UHF aerial to port; T.4 ZD990 short airbrake and lower UHF offset to STARBOARD.(XW175, XW265, XW266, XW268, XZ147, XZ445, ZD990.)
T.4N - ZB604-ZB606 - new built as T.4Ns. XW266-XW268, XW927, ZB601, ZB603, ZD992 upgraded from T.4/ T.4A. Original nose, RWR fin and tail sting. Internally T.4Ns had the Pegasus Mk.104 and SHAR FRS.1 avionics, excluding the radar, fitted. T.4N ZB604 fitted with long airbrake c.1993 until...TBC. Short Sea Harrier type airbrake fitted later. Radar altimeter aerials fitted into the area behind the airbrake and ahead of the ventral fin on the T.4N and T.8; one next to the lower UHF aerial just off centre to port; the second one, longer and behind it ahead of the ventral fin. Tie down rings fitted to front u/c leg and outriggers - as fitted to the SHARs - of all new build T.4Ns. Tie down rings only fitted to the outrigger legs of the other T.4Ns; from photographic evidence.
T.8 - Upgraded to T.8 were ZB603-ZB605, ZD990-ZD993. Original nose, RWR fin and tail sting. Doppler Panels fitted in a 'bolt-on' fairing under the nose ahead of the front u/c bay. Internally T.8s had the Pegasus Mk.104 and SHAR FA.2 avionics, excluding the radar, fitted. Short Sea Harrier type airbrake. Lower UHF aerial now offset to starboard - all airframes. Port wing leading edge root light fitted to T.8s ZB603, ZB604, ZB605, ZD990, ZD993; for sure. Tie down rings fitted to front u/c leg and outriggers - as fitted to the SHARs - on all T.8s.
Harriers are complex beasts!
I hope that something in there helps you out; good luck!
All the best
Nick
-
6
-
-
Nicely done Cris. You did a good job salvaging the 2-inch rocket pods.
These comments are to help ALL Harrier modellers with this kit, as some final corrections we made to the instructions and markings were sadly not included in the final printed (photocopied) documents... (Don't ask me why!)
I know, modellers never read the instructions but, with this kit, and the AV8A and AV8S (AMMO-Mig) boxings I urge all modellers to DEFINITELY READ them.
I also recommend modellers do a quick internet search for photographs of the Harrier they are making a model of, they will be helpful!
Remember... Harriers are complex beasts!
Here's 1 general tip and 3 specific to XZ997 when red-31 on HMS Hermes during Operation Corporate...
1. Tailplane anhedral - We asked for a rear view diagram to be included (it wasn't) to show that the tailplanes have similar anhedral to the wings and are not horizontal to the ground.
2. XZ997/31 had red 31s on the fin above the fin flash - that's why they are on the decal sheet! (For some reason they decal placement for the fin 31s have fallen off the printed drawings.)
3. On Hermes, XZ997/31's port tank had Oxford Blue undersides to tone down the original Light Aircraft Grey. (Why Oxford Blue? Hermes had used up its stocks of grey!)
4. XZ997 only had the T-shaped VHF aerial after it's time in the Falklands when it joined the Harrier units in RAF Germany; VHF being needed for operations in Germany.
5. Unlike the RAF's Matra 155 rocket pods, the Royal Navy's 2-inch rocket pods did not have frangible covers in the nose cone over the rocket tubes.
If anyone has any questions about the new Kinetic and AMMO-Mig Harrier kits (or any Harrier kits) please PM me including your direct email address for a reply.
For the Harrier SIG, I've done pdf "Build Watchouts" for the GR1/GR3 and AV8A to help with some of the complexities which I can send you.
All the best
Nick
-
2
-
2
-
-
Happy New Year folks!
@NAVY870 - The two SHARs are, depending on the exact dates of your two photos
- ZD578 was 125/N with 800 NAS from 4 March 1987. As your photo has a fin code letter, I'd say it was ZD578.
- XZ492 was 125 with 800 NAS up to that date.
- 003/N is proving elusive. XZ451 was 003/R in Dec-85. XZ495 was 003/N when 801 NAS visited Ohakea in NZ in Nov-83; the photo shows the fin code clearly being N.
On its visit to NZ XZ495 had the name of LT CDR M W WATSON RN in white under the windscreen on the starboard side only.
If you can confirm the exact dates of the visit, I will dig further.
(Source: Air Britain's Fleet Air Arm Serials)
Both overall Dk Sea Grey SHARs have natural metal front nozzles, with Light Aircraft Grey intake interiors, white airbrake and wheel bays but the inside of the AB would be DSg with a white number 5 or 3 inside it.
On the Hermes deck trials of 1977, Jun is correct! As you can see from one of the photos in the link all had white photo-marking stripes on the intake sides and just under the tailplane on the stbd side; the markings being different for each Harrier involved in the trials. The markings enabled "fixed-speed" cameras to be used to calculate the exact speeds of the Harriers over the deck and at take-off.
Bye for now
Nick
-
Sadly, XZ993 doesn't look very healthy now.
-
Odd why they were refitted at that date. The transponder allowed RN warships to positively identify the GR3s as friendly, Sea Harriers being fitted with them as standard. I’ve seen photos of IV(AC)’s GR3s on trials on Illustrious during summer 1982 and of 1(F)’s GR3s on carriers well after the Falklands War in the mid-80s fitted with them. I wasn’t aware that in 1989-90, IV(AC) undertook any deployments on RN carriers. Any light that can be shone on this would be welcome.
Thanks
Nick
-
Drop me a PM with your email in it and I’ll send you more info on XZ499.
Yes, Harrier 809 is highly recommended!
Cheers
Nick
-
1
-
-
To expand on Selwyn’s comment the bulge and aerial are part of the I-Band Transponder added to all the GR3s which deployed south on Operation Corporate and to those GR3s used by 1453 Flt at RAF Stanley. Some were retained by the aircraft after their time on the Islands, most were removed. That said GR3 XZ997 had its unit refitted for some reason between April 1989 and August 1990 while with IV(AC) Sqn at Gutersloh. It’s the one visible thing that changed on it between its return to the UK and it becoming part of the RAF Museum collection - it was removed before the aircraft first went on display at Hendon.
Other visible Falklands additions on GR3s were: tie-down tings added to the outrigger legs on all aircraft deployed and, on some aircraft only, the inclusion of ALE-40 chaff/flare dispensers in the kit bay behind the airbrake.
Let me know if you need more info.
All the best
Nick
-
3
-
-
Rob,
You have the two-seat Harrier PE fret there which includes several handles for the canopy, the open canopy braces and interior canopy parts; plus two sets os seat harness and two small yaw vanes. You need parts numbered 2 and 3 for the FRS.1's wing fences; PE2 goes outboard and PE3 inboard. The other wing fence is from the SHAR FA.2 kit. There are also two "8-fingered" reinforcing plates on the fret which were only fitted to FA.2s as far as I know. As for all the spare plastic... I have it on very good authority that it is cheaper for Kinetic to do things this way than to re-tool all the parts for each different Harrier kit. As a result, you also get two instrument panels - the FRS.1 one with a single screen on it and the FA.2 one with two screens. You get the option for a later (post-1983, but not all!) FRS.1 with the ALE-40 chaff/flare dispensers behind the airbrake or an earlier SHAR without them.
Good luck with the build and let me know if you need any more clarification or help with the kit. (Between you and me, Harriers an Sea Harriers can be complicated beasts!)
Cheers
Nick
-
1
-
1
-
-
A week? That would have taken me a month at least to do Rene! Bravo!
-
2
-
-
Very nice indeed!
Even better if...
- The tank stencil decals were on the port side ONLY, irrespective of which wing the tank hangs under; the tank stencils were not 'handed', tanks could be fitted under either wing.
- The correct AV-8A inboard pylons (on sprue P with the seats/fins/pylons, rather than those on Sprue D as fitted).
The inboard pylons fitted are the incorrect Sea Harrier ones included from previous kits. Section 18 of the kit instructions correctly call out the pylon part numbers as P27-P28, P32-P33 but the drawings show the kinked leading edge SHAR pylons rather than the GR.1/GR.3/AV-8A ones... Doh.
Harrier GR.1s/GR.3s and AV-8As had a single straight leading edge to the inboard pylons as did the T-birds. Only the Sea Harrier FRS.1 and FA.2 had the kinked leading edge to this pylon, the extra space inside the pylon enabled the extra cables needed for WE.177A 600lb MC bombs to be housed. On the FRS.1 the inboard pylons were fitted permanently to the wings due to the complexity of the wiring.
I hope that helps other builders of this and the GR.1/GR.3 kits.
Cheers
Nick
-
1
-
1
-
-
Peter, that's great info and plugs a gap in the list I'm trying to pull together of the HarDet/1453 Flt GR3s; many thanks for posting it.
Hopefully we can see the photos when you have found them.
Can you remember if they had started putting the HarDet shield insignia on the cockpit sides of H-T when you were there?
Cheers
Nick
-
I remember being in 899's hangar at Yeovilton 16 years ago almost to the day and watching them paint a Harrier T.8's flap gloss black using 4-inch brushes. The flap had had some FOD damage repaired. Being gloss, the brush strokes settled out well leaving a good uniform gloss finish; clearly the painter was well-practised! Being acrylic it dried fast so minimal dust in the surface.
In 1982 the Extra Dark Sea Grey paint used on the SHARs was a gloss acrylic paint to British standard DTD5599A manufactured by ICI. After their undersides had been painted, it is possible to see the old EDSG/White demarcation line in photographs of the HMS Hermes air group's SHARs, the undersides being very slightly lighter than the EDSG upper surfaces as the undersides had, in effect, a white primer under the EDSG. The brush painted EDSG weathered reasonably well when compared with the original EDSG surfaces, and with the sprayed EDSG which the SHARs on HMS Invincible received. Invincible's SHARs also show the undersides as very slightly lighter than the upper surfaces. It was not possible to spray Hermes' SHARs as the older hangar air-conditioning system would not cope with the particulates, unlike the more modern air-con system on Invincible.
When considering the impact on performance, I'd say four things: i) the combat record of Hermes' SHARs during Operation 'Corporate' speaks for itself, and ii) think of all those Dark Sea Grey and White (Alkali Removable Temporary Finish - ARTF) painted Harrier GR3s which served with the RAF on exercises at Bardufoss in Norway and, iii) think of the GR7s which had a grey ARTF finish applied during Operation 'Warden'... ARFT was a rough matt finish but seems to have been acceptable for both weight and performance criteria; and iv) in 1982 809 Squadron's Medium Sea Grey and Barley Grey finished SHARs had their MSG colours applied over their SHAR's original EDSG/W scheme; all that happened to the old paint and markings was that the surfaces was sanded down to key it (and the vinyl fin markings were removed where needed) before the MSG/BG were sprayed on in the Yeovilton paint shop.
I hope that helps answer your question; a good one!
Bye for now
Nick
-
1
-
-
Thanks Troy. I have thought of those options but as, to date, people’s questions have focused on specific aircraft, squadrons or details, I prefer to answer their questions individually. Yes, it takes me more time but they get the answers they need.
Equally, as many of the documents have been written for and with the help of members of the IPMS(UK)’s Harrier SIG, I have to balance that in the mix.
Like Battle if Britain Spitfires and Hurricanes, Harriers are much more complex beasts than one realises until you get into them. 80%+ of folks probably still equate the various marks of UK Harriers being due to their different nose and fin shapes.
So PM me with what you need to know and an email address and I’ll get back to you.
Cheerio
Nick
-
1
-
1
-
-
Exdraken - Sharing several 80+ page pdfs and other items on this site is not possible. Or have I missed something?!
-
One 48 - When you're ready to start your kit, PM me with any questions you may have and I'll send you some things to help you with your SHAR kit to help you 'do it right'.
Cheers
Nick
1/48 Harrier Falklands Harrier GR3
in Ready for Inspection - Aircraft
Posted · Edited by NG899
Mistakes on the Kinetic instructions, for XZ997 during the Falklands War - the red 31 is missing from the fin above the fin flash with the yellow 31s on the outriggers; also at this period the front nozzles were painted and not natural metal, both were dark green. My tip on the u/c has already been suggested - I deepen the slots the pegs on the main u/c leg go into; others remove the pegs from the leg and slide some tubing over it, with more tubing fitted above the u/c bay going up into the fuselage for the leg to slide into.
Hope that helps.
Cheers
Nick