tango98

Interesting to note that the Travemünde document does clearly indicate that RLM 83 was dark blue and was, as the document states, through ‘Development and testing’ and ‘in conjunction with’ to be considered for use as a camouflage colour for aircraft operating in the Mediterranean theatre over either land or sea. The Bv 138 float also raises an interesting question and it would be great if some provenance could be established for it. As the 3./SAGr.125 were operating eight of their Bv 138’s out of Salonika up until the end of August 1944 there could be the (very) slim possibility that if the float originated from an aircraft of that Staffel would/could this then be visual proof that the blue on the float is actually 83 which had been applied for trialling under operational conditions? Cheers Dave

Lovely Canadian ‘Lawn Dart’. Well done. Cheers Dave

She's coming along nicely. Are you going to make stub spars to ensure a good fit and dihedral (4 degrees on the main spar IIRC) for the outer wing portions? Cheers Dave

Did you get my email reply from a couple of days ago? I tried messaging you but it seems your mailbox is full. Dave

The Brassin set mentioned by Elger is your best choice for these particular kits for the cockpits. Also, and depending on how far you want to go with these kits there are additional reasonably priced aftermarket items to correct the noticeable 'odd' areas of both the G-6 and G-10. Barracuda provide resin replacement items which would be a sound investment; see http://barracudacals.com/products.php?cat=13 Also and again depending on how far you want to go, a virtual 'drop-fit' resin cowling replacement with correctly contoured Beule etc is available from here for the G-6: http://amurreaver.ru/?p=477 This same company also have a complete and correctly contoured forward fuselage/cowling replacement to replace the same oddly shaped area of the Revell G-10. As mentioned, all of these items are both reasonably priced and very well made; you won't be disappointed with whatever you choose. HTH Cheers Dave

In consideration of the work you’ve done on the rear ‘pit, are you going to replace the horrible intakes with the resin replacement ones from Barracuda? If you want to but are unable to get them in the UK, let me know as I’ve some spares here you can have if it would be of help. Just let me know if you want wide or narrow intakes although IIRC, most NF 11’s had the narrow intakes. Just PM me if you want a set. Cheers Dave

Hi Troy, Can you drop me an email please: [email protected] Cheers Dave

The first Hurricane test-flown with metal wings was L1877 in April 1939. In a minute from the PA to AMDP, dated 17.7.39, the first Hurricane delivered for service use with metal wings was L2027 and it goes on to say that it would be delivered sometime that week and that L2028 would be flying at Brooklands later that day followed by L2046 later that week. The last set of 35 fabric wings had just been delivered to Hawkers in mid-September 1939 with 15 sets of metal wings then being currently produced per week for Hawker by Gloster. The existing contract for fabric wings expired that same month (according to the Hawker and AM documents that I have here. IMHO, L1842 likely still had the fabric wings with which it was originally fitted. HTH Cheers Dave

In the copy I have here of a minute from the PA to AMDP, dated 17.7.39, the first Hurricane delivered with metal wings was L2027 and goes on to say that it would be delivered sometime that week and that L2028 would be flying at Brooklands later that day followed by L2046 later that week. I'll see if I can get a scan of this and follow-up documents up in this thread tomorrow. Cheers Dave

L2012 of 605 Sqn was a fabric wing Hurricane that was lost in the early afternoon of 15 September when, flown by Mike Cooper-Slipper, it collided with a Do 17 of the 5./KG 3 over Marden, Kent. Unit code at that time was UP. Back in the early 80's I had the chance to discuss the incident with Mike who, despite what has been written about this incident in a number of books, assured me that the only reason for the collision was that as his regular aircraft was u/s, he took the squadron fabric-winged 'spare' (L2012) and lagging behind the rest of the squadron, broke out of cloud to be immediately confronted by the Do17 which he couldn't avoid in time thus resulting in the collision. He also related that had it been a metal winged Hurricane the outcome for him would definitely have been 'more interesting!' (his words). I may or may not have the individual letter somewhere in my files but can't promise I'd be able to find it in a timely manner. However, my colleague AndyL frequents this DG so hopefully he'll see the post and may possibly be able to add the missing letter. HTH Dave

Steve, Will PM you early in the week re: Hurricane and armour. Cheers Dave PS If you haven't heard from me by Tuesday p.m. drop me a reminder.

How about a 418 Sqn Intruder aircraft? Aviaeology do some very nice 1/32 decals for a few of the Sqn aircraft in the green/grey over black under surfaces intruder scheme with nose art of characters from Lil' Abner. Cheers Dave

Harry, Just as Nick has explained. Cheers Dave

Hi Troy, The aircraft is definitely from the IV.Gruppe as evidenced by the Tilde symbol applied over the air defence bands and the bands do look to be the black white black used by JG 4. Late in the war Gruppe strength had been increased to four Staffeln, their colours being 13., White, 14., Red, 15., Yellow and Blue for the 16. Staffel. Based on the greyscale values of the image, IMHO both the number and the Tilde symbol appear to be either red or blue as both are a much lighter grey tone than both the black of the Swastika and the outer bands of the air defence tail band. So my WAG (Wild A** Guess) is that it is quite possibly Red or Blue 15 of either the 14 or 16 Staffel of JG 4. JG 4 were operating a number of Erla-built G-10s in early 1945, several of which are listed in the QM returns for the period. HTH Cheers Dave

Troy, I'm making out 0630 on the fin that it's an Erla-built G-10 from the 490000 – 490800 W.Nr. range. Cheers Dave

Wayne, If you'd care to drop me an email at: [email protected] I'll send you what I have on McKnight's Hurricane. Cheers Dave

Thanks for the imagery Dennis and I tend to agree with you that both look to be wide breathers. As an aside, I was looking at some imagery from the Coronation Review and was surprised to see a mix of wide and narrow breathers amongst the T.7s taking part when I was always of the opinion that they were all narrow breathers! Cheers Dave

Not wishing to start a kerfuffle of wide v narrow breathers, would anyone happen to know a source for any images of WK784 before she was converted to U.16 configuration in early 1961? I have thus far found one image of her while on the strength of 604 Sqn circa the time of HM the Q's Coronation Review but would be interested to see any others that may be around. In the image I have she has (apparently) wide breathers but has the earlier canopy with the metal covered rear section. Cheers Dave

Just to clarify the green/white v. blue/white issue and as noted by David in his earlier post it was actually the continued research by both he and our Czech and German colleagues that determined the blue/white colours. Cheers Dave

Since publication of our Experten booklet and the link to David's updated information in the Stormbirds article David has, when time allows, continued to research these markings (amongst his other research projects) and will publish further information when he can - if more is found. During our initial research into Yellow 3 our belief and that of other researchers at the time was that the checks were green and white but there was always a nagging possibility in our minds that blue and white could have been a possibility (a fact that we included in the text of the booklet). Because of this we had considered including blue/white bands on the decal sheet but the decal printing was too far along for this to be done. Cheers Dave

FWIW, a US report on one of the 190Ds states ".......lower surface of wings and tail painted red with irregular white stripes....." It doesn't specify which aircraft but given the pressing circumstances of the times it is entirely possible that all of them were so painted.

That these particular bands were blue/white as opposed to green/white has been known now for some eight or nine years.

Mark IV's may be seen with landing lights fitted or with them removed/plated over just as seen on many of the rocket armed Typhoons. I've some thirty or so photos of Hurricane Mk IV's and (I would say) where the leading edge of the wing is clearly visible many of them, but not all, have the landing lights removed/plated over. Cheers Dave

Nicely done and nicely presented Steve; well done! Cheers Dave

Hi Larry, There were two openings in the lower fuselage approximating the rear undercarriage strut mounting shohwing IIRC, one to port and one near the centre line. The FK was a pretty large piece of kit so I don't know how often it was carried as most of my Roland stuff shows only the hand held being used. Anyway, if you'd care to email me at: [email protected] I'll send you some scans later this morning. Cheers Dave