clumsy

I came up with this link https://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2002/10/stuff_eng_profile_thunderflash.htm and the author has written this: "Based on the comparison of full-size aircraft in Brussels Air Force Museum using a FS 595B fan deck, the colours of the Vietnam scheme were approximated to FS 34096 / 34097 / 34340 for the upper surfaces with a slightly off-white paint on the lower surfaces." I know it is a museum piece and sometimes we need to approach them with caution. But I want to assume that the author knows his job. By the way, the colours are still close to the FS colours of satin SEA camouflage colours.

According to what is written in the book as a text (published by AirDoc) the Italians used RAL colours until 1980 and further on they switched to FS standards hence they became and exception in my opinion, for this instance. "...is simply to issue a request to paint manufacturers for something matching whatever paint the customer wishes." Exactly kind of my point; the equivalent of FS colours in RAL system or no. Even though we say equivalent they are only similar in colour with different hue or tone for an educated eye. (unfortunately not my case. Therefore I am looking for evidence) I agree on the gray (FS16473) colour under the wings but it would way much be easier to obtain that little amount of paint from the original source compared to other colours(ie. camouflage ones) that would be used to paint the whole aircraft. Thanks again for the effort and time you are sending. Neither anything is described in Mirage V book of the same series.

Thanks a lot for the helps. Actually I am well aware of the Federal Standard equivalents of the colours used on BAF F-104Gs. They also had been used on F-84Fs and Mirage Vs. But, had they used the products which produced directly FS paints or did they obtained the colours from a source which produced the equivalent/similar RAL colours? For example, if I am not wrong the Israelis use FS equivalent RAL colours on their planes when they paint the airplanes by themselves. I have the yellow bible (IPMS Color Cross-Reference Guide by David Klaus) in my library, it also describes the official color equivalents with FS numbers. But regarding that Belgium was one of the contractors for F-104 production for European countries and that the other parties had used RAL system for their airplanes (Italians are an exception) I suspect that the BAF had also decided to have the same approach and had used FS equivalent RAL colours.

Hello all, I would appreciate a lot if someone could pass the information which system or code of colours had been applied on camouflaged Belgian Air Force F-104Gs. Might it be possible that they had used FS equivalent RAL colours on BAF F-104Gs? As far as I know most had been produced by SABCA; Belgian aircraft manufacturer company. Thank You very much in advance, Arkut

Hello Six97s Thanks for your input. As far as I know the color is called as written in the title. The paint itself existed in the catalogue until the 60's. The first hand information comes from a magazine printed in 11/1990 in Turkey and the essay is written by a fellow modeller (†90s) who also described the hue of the paint close to yellow. Then there are other modellers who claim that they saw an actual sample of the same paint that say that it is a yellow color. But as I wrote before these are all 3rd party information. So I need someone as a direct source. Just to be sure as 99,9%. Cheers, Arkut

It is related to this subject but that will well deviate us from the main point. I have already mentioned that the models are continuously painted with an orange color similar to FS12300 even tough it is always stated that the color is like FS13538. Well, the hues of 13538 and 12300 are way way different from each other. (eg. If you paint a model with these two colours and shoot a black and white picture there is a possibility of a claim that it might have been painted in WWII RAF Desert Scheme ) Some sources describe the name that the hue of the color is actually a reddish yellow. That is, the base of a yellow color with a hint of red. Also there are sayings that the persons who had seen a sample of the mentioned DuPont color claims the color is yellow. But all these information are provided by 3rd parties. So I just need to communicate directly who could have seen a sample of the actual paint sample/chip. Cheers, Arkut

Thank You all for the efforts. I need the information to use it on an aircraft paint but the code appears to be for an automative paint. Unfortunately I am also aware of the information that sas1946.com contains which was actually distracted from inputs of another modeller. The problem with this color is that even though it has been continuously stated on paper that the color looks like FS 13538 it has never been painted so. Instead the models always appear to be painted with kind of FS 12300 which is an orange color let alone a yellow based one. The color was on the catalogue until the 60's but then had been removed so only a few had seen the hue it carries. t Still hoping for it and again thanks...

Hello, I need help to identify the hue of this color. The aircraft modelling guys claim that it is close to a yellow hue which can be identified as FS 13538. Could anyone confirm if this is correct or could anyone provide with any other correct information? Thank you very much in advance. Arkut

Hello, There is an inconsistency with describing of this color and the models painted claimed to be painted with this color. Even though the modellers claim that the actual color is similar to FS 13538 they always paint the model with a color that is almost a pure orange (FS12300) color. Therefore I would appreciate a lot for anyone who could share an example of a sample for DuPont No. 83-2588 Deluxe Orange. Thank You very much in advance for your interest and helps in this matter. Cheers, Arkut

Hi, Thank you very much sharing the supporting information. After writing my last message I continued to search the available sources as much as I could via internet and hard copies. I was also assuming the same. But without any supportive input being alone is sometimes not enough to conclude on a subject. And with your input it is now more clear. BS4800 was used as a source and later the color on that source was adopted in the BS 381C. This might have also happened for other types like Tornado ADV and some F-4 painting schemes. I know that I do not have to be insane about the hue of the colors but at the end it is just a personal matter of spending your free time and getting used to handle the resources. Thank you very much again for helping in this matter and get to a more reliable solution. Cheers, Arkut

Hello all, Thank you very much for your contributing efforts. Unfortunately I assume that my question was not totally clear. I need to explain that I am aware of the exact color code of the hemp color with their official names described on the color fan which is printed by e-paint.co.uk website. (I need to say that the actual color chips differ a bit even to an uneducated eye like mine.) So I actually new that exact coding of the color for each standart. I am also aware that there are different standards hence the name is BS; and yes this is British Standart if my memory does not trick me. I would like to repeat my question with new ones if I may: Which standart had been used in the 80's by RAF for the Nimrod, Victor etc for the upper camouflage? Had it been like they applied the BS 4800/10B21 at first and then had come up with a new color of BS381C/389? In another ways, when did BS381C/389 appear in the BS381C system/standart, in 1980, 1988 or 1996 edition? (eg. 388 Beige had not been there in the 1980 edition) Had it been always the BS381C/389 from the beginning? I am confused in this area as the IPMS Color Cross-Reference book written by David Klaus (edition 8th on September 1993) contains some information which might lead to the assumption that the 1980 edition of BS381C might not contain the color 389. Please refer to pages: 1- 82 (where BS2660 {ex version of 4800} is used to describe the hemp color for the camouflage of Nimrod, Victor etc.) and 2- 109 (where an Appendix exists for the cross reference of BS381C between RAL and FS and in which color 389 does not exist. Also there is a description that some chips were obsolete like 388 and that is a number before 389) And again put the information in that where majority of the manufacturers use BS138C version for the labelling Sovereign Hobbies and Gunze/GSI use BS4800 for their labelling. I hope I am not confusing you with language barrier as English is not my mother language. As said before this information might well serve the same confusing information for the Tornado ADV version or even the F-4s. Thank you again for your patience and efforts. Cheers, Arkut

Well then, what I get from your information is that it has been always the BS 381C for the hemp color and BS4800 had never been used. Thank you, Arkut

Hello all, I am writing this message to request your help in clarifying the color codes used for RAF during 80's. Some sources use BS4800 and some BS381C for the hemp color of the Victor, Nimrod etc. during 80's and at Desert Storm. Especially most of the paint manufacturers use 381C for the labelling where Gunze/GSI and Sovereign use 4800 for it. (Also the IPMS Color Cross-Reference Guide by David Klaus contains the BS2660 which is replaced by BS4800, so again not the BS381C for the hemp color.) Would someone please explain me which standart is officially used by RAF at those times to determine the hemp color, 4800(2660 by then) or 381C? This might also be helpful to clarify the similar confusion for the Tornado ADV with early colors. I would appreciate a lot if I could get some help on this matter. Thank You very much in advance, Arkut

Hi, Although not directly related as it is already answered, the twisted hose on one leg might be running straight in the middle of the other leg. Now I learned the twisted one is for oil stuff but do not know what the other one is for or why is it just straight and not twisted as the other. (just in case you want to do the oil Iine too)

That is a good catch about the stencils or the walkways. As far as I know the production process had started to tend to omit some or the maintenance lead to overpaint the stencils. On the net there are considerable good amount of pictures that carries almost no stencils due repainting, weathering etc. Of course this is not an excuse to omit all in my project. Also, keeping in mind that this is a small aircraft the thickness of all the decals for the stencils would pop up and hence would ruin the overall finish by creating a step for each the decal I would use. This is also a reason why I only used the decals for devil's head and the small number (154) as it would take more time to paint them. Still I admit that triangle on the fuselage (for the fuel AFAIK) can be added. If I find an easier or safer way I will apply it by paint. I have used the Uschi van der Rosten rigging product. Personally I prefer it over the other ones from different brands. Thanks to All for the encouraging comments. Cheers, Arkut