LesB

Andy Gunpacks continued to be fitted up until the end usually however for specific NATO exercises or the (fairly) regular visits to the ranges at Idris or Akrotiri. But most B(I)8s were sold on or scrapped in 1972, the Strike Sqns were re-equipping. Although the B(I)8s had a tac nuke role there was only ever two airframes at a time on each of the Strike Sqns that were actually 'loaded' - these were the QRA aircraft. Anyway, in 70/71 the gunpacks would have been high-speed silver, very few were repainted in the NATO grey to match the airframe undersides. In fact, the paint scheme of the gunpacks lagged behind that of the aircraft such theat even as late as 69/70 you could see B(I)8s with silver or even grey undersides sporting 'packs that were still all-over black. In fact, around 65/66/67 you'd could see 8s with silver undersides and black gunpack bomb doors fitted. As for photos of 'mainly' 3 Sqn 8s, be assured that all the strike sqns were pretty much in line with each other on overall camo schemes, just badge and aircraft ID differences. Also, nearly all the B(I)8s regularly swapped between the sqns (3, 14 and 16) so comonality in basic scheme was a given. Hope this helps/ .

Nope Bex, usually black onto bare metal (satin not gloss). Brand new panels may sometimes be chromated but only as a storage corrosion preventative, soon painted black though. Canberra wasn't too sophisticated in the cockpit department, in fact it was a bluddy awful design and not ergonomic in any way. .

The Model Alliance decal for the 3 Sqn B(I)8 fin marking is wrong. They give the sqn's Cockatrice as red upper colour with black lower colour. It should be green upper colour with pale red lower colour. If you use their fin decal I'll call in an air strike on your location!

Smoke marks on the 8s weren't all that intrusive, generally cleaned up on no flying days. Pics show examples. Sorry for the poor quality but nobody at the time knew they would eventually be used - 40 years on - on a modeller forum. ' . Hope these help. Regarding the bomb position. It was a curved metal bed equiped with a cushion. Pic of the bed-base. . . OK?

Of course, like many a photo in those days gone by, it may just have been hand-coloured before reprosduction.

Yes, quite well. We were on 3 together at Geilenkirchen. Last met Lemmy at Conningsby at 3 Sqn's 95th anniv bash last year. Formed (or founding member of) the Geilers Gliding Club I think back in 62. Have a couple of his photos in my B(I)8 galleries. Short chap, used to fly the 8s with a cushion. Had the tallest nav on the station at the time, quite a pair they made. Played a mean (I really mean 'mean'), game of Risk. Do you know him through gliding? Say hello from me next time you see him and tell him it would be good if he got to the reunion in Derby this Oct. .

Who would that be John? Can you say? Be good to know. .

Thanks for the replies. Dave Glad you liked my bit of droll wit. Gotta have a bit of fun else a hobby is just a strange obsession that's difficult to explain to others! Yes, wrap-over occured even on black u/side airframes. Sorry, keeps you on yer toes I guess. BillC No problem with tanks and gunpack, happened. 3 Sqn is a good choice quite colourful sqn colours - (The Third Shall Be First). Black u/sides is shown well in this pic of WT332 on 3 Sqn line at Gielenkirchen (1964). Note low black demarcation line and the detail differences between the tip tanks on the two aircraft. Good luck with the build - pics at the end would be good. JohnB Ref tank usage. Not really sure if they were removed for short range missions, not always. Nearly all our flying was tasked by NATO Supreme Cmmd (SACEUR) and scheduled fairly well in advance so configs could be predicted as needed. Of course, aircraft unservicabilities tended to bu66er the plan about, but we generally coped. Normal state, if there could be said to be one, was no-tips. But I seem to recall that at least three or four aircraft were always kept tipped (not always the same aircraft though). Tips were fitted for QRA (Primary Mission, nuke fit) though and there was always a couple of 8s going on, or coming off QRA. Plus, there was usually at least one allocated QRA 'spare' in case one went u/s during routine servicing in the sheds. Generally tips were on/off like nobody's business, real pain too. Regarding fatique life. Tip-fit figured in this of course but not overly significantly. The overriding aspect of B(I)8 fatigue index was the need to practice LABS bombing (Low Altitude Bombing System - 350kts at 250 ft, pull up into a semi loop, release the nuke at about 35deg up, roll over the top and head for the earth again high-tailing it for home!) There was a very close check kept on the G factor with the meter being recorded after every flight. 5G was the limit as I recall, anything over that meant a rigging check for the aircraft.

Dave, your question implies you are seeking some sort of ruling or finalistaion to the scheme to things, no such luck I'm afraid. There is no rule of thumb. Originally all B(I)8 tip tanks were black as befitted the airframe's role of night interdictor. All tip tanks were therefore issued in a black scheme. Mid 60s, 8's began to get silver undersides which immediately confused the issue. Some tanks were repainted silver but not, by any means, all. It took several years for all tips to be re-painted silver. Black tanks outnumbered silver ones to the extent that a silvered airframe could fly with black tanks (and vice versa for a while). I've actually seen an 8 with one silver and one black! (It was an emergency ferry flight but the precedence was there). Then, a bit later just before the end, the tanks were painted camo grey on top with silver undersides. And of course from the mid 60s tip tanks made from phenolic resin were issued, mostly painted silver but laterly grey camo/silver. So, as with all these detail camo type questions, there was no hard and fast rule that policy (if any) would be implelmented. You could pretty much find any combination of airframe and accessories, it was up to the sqns really and then only carried out on an as-and-when basis. Incidentally, before you ask, the special bomb-doors with the cut-out for a gunpack were initially interdictor black. They stayed this way for quite a few years after the introduction of silver underside airframes! It was often the case that silvered 8s flew to the Cyprus and Idris ranges with black gunpack doors fitted . . . and black gunpacks as well! There was just so much more to do on the Strike Sqns in those days than worry about the colour matching of tips, bomb doors and gunpacks. There was, of course, a conspiracy in all this. We all knew that future generations would be painstakingly fastidious about camo schemes so we deliberately set up conditions whereby everbody could be right! To sum up. There probably was a policy in such matters but it was never slavishly followed if at all!

Derek To accomodate the gunpack the B(I)8s (and the B(I)6s) had special bomb doors with cut-outs at the rear end. When fitted these snuggly fitted around the gunpack. (They were a bu66er to fit, took 10 blokes heaving and straining and swearing to hold them up one at a time while the pins were hammered in with a hide-face) There was usable bomb-bay space in front of the gunpack which could hold two 1000lbs or a small frame rack of smaller dumb bombs. Usually though the fit was a flare pack. This because the B(I)8s were night interdictors, the flares were used to light the target while the wingman shot it up with the 20mils. This only happened on exercise though at Nordhorn range (or the Cyprus range). More usually, in fact most common of all, there would be a pannier cage fitted. Gunpacks were fitted when the 8s were detached to Idris, Lybia (Tarhuna range). The pannier carried the crew's bags, changes of clothing, several packets of Corn Flakes, soap and washing powder, boxes of talcum powder, boxes of crisps, several packets of digestive biscuits . . . all the really necessary stuff you'd need in North Africa really. Of course on the return the pannier was useful for duty frees etc. Sorry, there is no specialised B(I)8 book. But if you have any queries I may be able to give some assitance. There are a few galleries of B(I)8 images with potted histories here Hope this helps.

Flaps on the 9 are same as on all other Canberras. .

Thanks for the welcome Bill. As I see Bex has already mentioned, yes, the EE Canberra Tribute site is mine. Glad to hear as well that you're going to do a representation of an early 3 Sqn B(I)8. You should be aware that there were two different black undeside schemes - a 'Hi-level' and a 'Lo-level'. The 'level' relates to the distance up the fusulage of the black/camo demarcation line. The 'Lo-level' scheme was used quite often but the 'hi-level' scheme was the commonest. Both schemes would allow you to use 3 Sqn's colourful green with yellow-edged fin flash and large, white serials. There's quite a useful (I think) pic on my site here taken in 1964. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to the usage of the Hi/Lo schemes. Myself and a 3 Sqn pilot I knew at the time were researching it (both members of the 3 SqnAssoc), but he passed on a year or so back and it has not since achieved much by way of a resolution. We both figured it could be a case of where the airframe had its Major Service (and consequent re-paint) carried out. The same set of circumstances pertain to the silver underside scheme. Personally I think that the painters and dopers of those days did it deliberately to screw up future modellers! Send me a PM with your addy and I'll send a couple of pics showing the differences. Also, 3 Sqn didn't have the green fin flash to begin with (on handover from 59 Sqn), just their Cockatrice in a plain circle on the fin. And the creature was coloured blue and red only to be corrected later at the introduction of the fin flash to green and red. By the way, the oft-asked questions about B(I)8 undercarriage bays - they were all black and the inside of the flaps were plain silver. Oh, and another thing. . . . in the B(I)8's early days each warning and informational message painted on the fuselage was duplicated in German. This quickly passed though as some gawd's awful translational errors were creeping in. So, I'd forget about it. Be glad to answer any questiions that anybody may have regarding the RAF's 8's.

Thanks Bex. Thanks for that gen. Shame really as it was an 'historic' airframe. .

Thanks Damien, appreciated. Is there any forum that you're not a member of? Yeah, well, y'know . . . got a thing about 8s in particular and cranberries in general. I guess this one will, as you say, resurect the paint and glue. .

Hi people Newly subscribed here to read comments and views on the 1/48 Airfix B(I)8. From all accounts it is a nice kit, good fits, good mouldings, etc. Looking forward to getting one (when the wife releases the funds! ) Anyway, have seen a couple of built examples on here and I am very encouraged by the look of the thing. One pont that may be of interest to painstaking modellers in the interests of accuracy is that the RAF's B(I)8s did not have the VHF/ILS antennas on the fin, they weren't fitted with that equipment. You may want to trim them off for any 88/14 Sqn, 59/3 Sqn or 16 Sqn representations. However, they can be retained if you make a representation of a SAAF B(I)12 in its later years. At that time the B(I)12s were overall PR bue and were fitted with the kit mentioned above. OK, sorry to be so pedantic but I thought you may care to know about that. By the way, I served on 3 Sqn's B(I)8s at Geilenkirchen from 62 to 65, so I have some background.