David M

The official proportion was 2:5.

Andrew, This may be so for some RAF Mk IIIs but at least some had the fuselage tank and filler. Several owned by the RAF and operated by 3 Squadron RAAF in Italy had filler caps - and the attendant staining - plainly evident on their port sides. HTH David Muir Author 'Southern Cross Mustangs'

They were indeed built at Dallas. However, Terry is quite correct: all 30 Mustang deliveries to the RNZAF were D models; 29 with the Hamilton Standard K6547A 'square tipped' uncuffed prop blades common to most late production Mustangs and one (NZ2413) with the HS K6532A 'round tipped' cuffed blades. None had Aeroproducts blades and were thus not K models. David Muir Author 'Southern Cross Mustangs'

Not quite a 'total backflip', this movement is more accurately described as 'testiculation'; i.e. waving your arms wildly with both feet in your mouth while talking man-vegetables. More usually seen being performed by politicians but occasionally attempted, in this case sucessfully, by amateurs with big titles and little sence. According to the "Prof" you still need to have "prior aviation knowledge" to write about anything to do with the "technical, operational and history" of an aircraft before researching and writing about it. So he has not flipped/testiculated very far... David

The NAA drawings certainly did specify colour and materials for the headrest on the Mustang. They were included in and formed part of the contract requirement between NAA and the British Government as represented by the BPC and its predecessors and decendents. Like any other aspect of the contract they were almost certainly checked by someone during the process and if at variance from the requirement would have needed formal approval of the change from someone with the authority to do so; in this instance an AID examiner or the RTO. The process was not as random or at the whim of NAA as some would have us believe. The Air Ministry had a tried and tested control system and wrote it into and applied it to their initial US contracts and put monitoring in place to see that what the BPC et al wanted, the BPC et al got.

The cuffed, round ended HS (K (or J) 6523A) blades were the initial type fitted to the Merlin (P-51B/C, RAF Mk IIIs and early P-51Ds). The uncuffed, square ended HS (K6547A) blades were fitted later on the late P-51Ds. There is also a De Havilland Australia made clone (DA 6547A-6) of the square ended HS prop that is outwardly identical apart from the stickers. The Aeroproducts A20-146-24M blades were fitted to (and identified) the P-51K/RAF Mk IVA models; these account for most of the RAF deliveries after Mk III deliveries ended. The Aeroproducts were prone to vibration and were often rejected at the acceptance flights. The two HS shapes are readily interchangeable; they can be swapped with an Aeroproducts prop but it is somewhat more complicated as the controls, hub, weight and spinner assembly are all different. The type of blade fitted to the USAAF/USAF/ANG Mustangs in service varied a lot. For example many of the Korean era aircraft had the earlier cuffed blade shape. For the 8th AF in 1943/early 1944 use the round ended cuffed type. The cuff is a moulded rubber section and has to be removed from time to time to check for corrosion. The removal/replacement process is not cheap - last price I heard was $US10K per blade - so uncuffed blades make economic sence and hence are more popular with warbird owners. Some still insist on the cuffed type, others use the same blade shape with the cuff removed. HTH David Muir

From personal experience pilots are amongst the least aware of C & M matters; ground crew, the engineering staff and especially the painters have much better awareness and recollection. Harvs73 nicely sums it up. Then again, if someone who likes to assume the title of "Prof" wants to insinuate misrepresentation by a highly respected historian - then who are we to stop him from making himself look like an idiot?

Steve's work at the 3 Squadron Association site should be approached with caution as it represents the state of his research at around 2002-2003. Things have progressed significantly since then with the discovery/recovery of new information across the spectrum (photos (both B & W and colour), official documents, unit records, veterans observations, etc). 'SCM' pretty much represents the current state and interpretation and differs from Steve's work (from which it evolved) in several key areas. The origins, patterns, colours and which aircraft have which are now much clearer and known with greater certainty and in some cases are very different from what was 'known' five or six years ago. HTH David Muir Author of 'Southern Cross Mustangs'

Graham, Am I correct in reading your first sentence as inferring that RAF Mustangs in Italy were delivered in the desert version of the TLS and repainted in theatre by overpainting the Mid Stone with grey or are you meaning the DAF Kittyhawks? If so is there any evidence that you can share of this happening on Mustangs? The only "research" I am aware of that postulated the existance of 3 Squadron RAAF Mustangs in TLS brown/green arose from some speculative correspondence in one of the UK modelling magazines that were based on the comparison of the contrast between the two uppersurface colours in a relatively small number of B & W prints. I looked into this in some depth when researching 'Southern Cross Mustangs' and was able to satisfy myself that there were indeed two different contrasts but that they were a result of the difference between the slightly darker US Sea Gray and slightly lighter UK Ocean Grey. All the known examples with the higher contrast are known to have been repainted using British paints in either the UK or (very late in 1944 and early 1945) in Italy. All those with lower contrast wear the distinctive pattern applied at the factory. There are colour photos taken on the NAA Dallas ramp that confirm that the early RAF Mustangs up until at least the initial deliveries of Mk IIIs were painted at the factory in TLS. However, there is documentary evidence that this changed very early in 1944 (possibly as early as January but certainly by March) to the US ANA equivalents (Olive Drab/Sea Gray over Light Gray) of the British DFS colours (Dark Green/Ocean Grey over Medium Sea Grey). There is convincing B & W evidence that NAA had swapped over to the DFS for both Mk IIIs and Mk IV/IVAs before the Mk III production closed and a colour photo has recently appeared showing a RAF MkIII with just such a combination, i.e. DFS OD/SG/MSG in the factory pattern, which proves the point. In my mind there is no question that the 3 Squadron RAAF aircraft were all in DFS colours; things may have been different in the RAF during the first quarter of 1944 but as yet I have yet to see any cedible evidence to support the use of TLS colours on Mk IIIs and Mk IV/IVAs - outside of CONUS - except perhaps some of the early MkIIIs while they were in the UK AD parking lots while waiting to be modified and repainted before entering service. HTH, David Muir Author of 'Southern Cross Mustangs'

As Nick has quoted there were at least four different camouflage patterns applied to the Mustangs used in the Med in addition to the bare metal/'Aluminium' painted scheme. 3 Squadron RAAF used three of these; one was applied at the the factory, one was applied in the UK and one was applied in Italy. All were green/grey over lighter grey using US OD/Sea Gray/Light Grey at the factory and British DG/OG/MSG for the other two. I have found one image that confirms that the scheme applied in Italy used British paints and the source of the paint for the other two is self evident. Fortunately the other evidence (documents, eyewitness reports, photos, etc) seems to line up for these 3 Squadron aircraft and there is no credible or verifiable material to suggest that the uppersurface colours were anything other than DFS green and grey. The British and other Commonwealth ones are another matter as the documents and colour images taken in the US confirm that early Mk IIIs were in TLS green/brown ex factory until at least November 1943. However, there was extensive repainting done in the UK and I suspect that any delivered in TLS were repainted in DFS colours in the UK prior to entering service; hence the different pattern. We know that some of these went to the Med, including the aforesaid FB128. I believe that at a point probably in mid January (and certainly by mid March) the factory colours were swapped to DFS green/grey. The patterns are quite distinctive once you know what to look for and can usually be identified in most photos, subject of course to the quality of the image. Although there were minor variations in the positioning and detailed shapes used, all three were applied fairly consistently and once identified a reasonable approximation of the likely pattern can be deduced. If someone cares to point out where the image of GN-N has been published I will take a look in my books and attempt to ID it. HTH David Muir Author of 'Southern Cross Mustangs' PS Terry: rather than have your mate scan it: buy the book. I guarantee you will not be disappointed and I might just have a chance of recovering a tiny fraction of the not inconsiderable sum it cost me... DM

The RAAF used Geletrol heads on 60lb British rockets in Korea on Meteors after testing them in Australia on Mustangs. They are not as shown i the photo in the "flaming onions" link (which are normal HE rounds); the head is much larger with a conical nose. It also followed American practice and used 75 and 110 gallon drop tanks fitted with fuses as napalm weapons on Mustangs in Korea and used locally produced 550lb Geletrol bombs post war. There are images around of all three weapons; contact me OTB if you are unable to find them under Geletrol. David M