Rolls-Royce

Vallejo's color could be the result of the 82/83 transposition some sources and model paint manufacturers fell victim to years ago...

Forum member Nobby Clarke recently sent me a number of excellent sample swatches (thanks, Nobby!) for measurement, and I thought I'd share some of the better matches. Most of these should be easily available to just about everyone here either from an LHS or online. For RAF Dark Earth: Vallejo Model Color 70.921 English Uniform 1.87 dE, sRGB (116,96,67) Model Master Acryl 4708 Field Drab 2.24 dE, sRGB (109,92,69) Vallejo Model Color 70.873 US Field Drab 2.48 dE, sRGB (122,101,78) For RAF Dark Green: Vallejo Model Color 70.892 Yellow Olive 1.64 dE, sRGB (76,82,70) He sent a number of swatches of different colors, but these were the only ones with a dE under 3. As always, these were in comparison to the swatches in my personal copy of the 1976 RAF Museum British Aviation Colours of World War Two. No comparison to any other sources was made or implied.

Oops! Got this confuzzled with the 152C thread when I saw your avatar. That's what happens when you get old...

Of course, with a Ta152C, how many "other aircraft" were there?

Interestingly, the book has photos of K5054 in its original bare metal finish, in the high gloss pale gray or blue, and in RAF camo.

Got mine two days ago. It was worth the wait. This and the free downloadable research/instructions for Fundekals' "Spitfires Part II Early War (all Mark Is)" are great references.

From 42 years working on and around aircraft as first a USAF aircraft mechanic then as an airline employee, my experience has been that rivets on a painted surface are not that easy to see from 50 feet, especially if the surface is flush-riveted. Mostly what you can detect is the oil canning/deformation that forms a slight dimple around each rivet over time. They can also retain grime from leaks at neighboring access panels. Now, bare metal - especially when it's polished - along with non-flush rivets, are a different story. I personally mostly use matt finishes, unless I know the aircraft was finished in a gloss or semigloss paint like the late "Hill Scheme" on USAF F-4s.

The bluish-black "Zero cowling black" shade has also been suggested as a possible Night stand-in.

Agreed. From 50 feet away, one can't see most panel lines on a painted aircraft unless they are movable, removable, have fluids seeping out from them, or demarcate areas of color and bare metal (such as the exhaust blast panels on the F-4 Phantom II).

Indeed. A.30/41 amended A.926/40 to add reference to Special Night. I mistakenly assumed that Night and Special Night were two names for the same coating. My bad.

Personally, I'd use white and black (the regulations called it either "matt black" or "Special Night", which is not a pure black). Then you can use a thin pale grey wash to get the appearance you want. I've been contemplating this very subject for a Spitfire I project.

I have an update. I just finished measuring alt-92's suggested Tamiya colors, with the following results. Again, these are in comparison to the color swatches in my personal copy of the RAF Museum book from 1976. As before, the dE is given followed by sRGB codes: Tamiya RAF Dark Green 2 (XF-81) 3.02 dE (76,76,63) Tamiya RAF Ocean Gray 2 (XF-82) 3.05 dE (96,110,119) Tamiya RAF Medium Sea Gray 2 (XF-83) 4.68 dE (128,136,135) I also measured the Model Master Acrylics RAF Dark Green at 4.24 dE (85,89,82). It beat out both the Vallejo and XtraCrylix versions to land in third place behind the Tamiya and Mission Models efforts. I hope this info has been useful.

That photo probably isn't a good reference. For one, the propeller blades during that period, at least for 1941-1942, were brown only on their rear faces. The spinner and front of each blade were silver (polished aluminum in the case of the blades). Museum aircraft aren't always a good source. Personally, I'd go with Tamiya's suggestion.

OK, I can get those from a LHS about 100 miles away. They're on order now, and I should have them at the end of the week. I also ordered the Model Master Acryl RAF Dark Green (I know, I know) just for S&G.

It appears that Dark Green is a tough color to get right. None of the contenders I have managed under a dE of 4. I wish I could get my hands on some of Jamie's Colourcoats, but they are exceptionally scarce here, with only one vendor. I'll have to look into ptarmigan's MRP Aqua colors.

Ah. I wasn't aware they weren't made in England. Thanks!

More fuel for the fire! I just finished measuring 5 colors that are probably the most commonly used in the two RAF WWII European fighter schemes: Dark Earth, Dark Green, Sky, Ocean Grey, and Medium Sea Grey. I measured the color chips in the RAF Museum book, followed by the corresponding colors for three brands of acrylic paint I have on hand. The paint brands are Mission Models, XtraCrylic, and Vallejo. No enamels or lacquers (sorry, guys). Petroleum-based paints are getting harder to source, especially with the pandemic. In the following list, I'll give the color name and Munsell and SRGB numbers for the chips in my copy of the RAF Museum book, followed by the brand name, dE2000 (difference from the reference), and SRGB numbers for the equivalents. Remember that the lower the dE number, the closer the match to the reference, with 2.0 and below being nearly identical. Dark Earth: 9.9YR 4.1/2.8 (117, 95, 70). Vallejo, 2.03 (115, 98, 75). XtraCrylic, 5.86 (98, 84, 64). Mission Models, 3.39 (112, 97, 77). Dark Green: 2.8GY 3.4/1.3 (81, 84, 70). Vallejo, 4.80 (74, 79, 55). XtraCrylic, 4.91 (66, 65, 55). Mission Models, 4.04 (79, 86, 79). Sky: 6.1GY 7.4/1.8 (178,188,162). Vallejo, 7.03 (158,163,139). XtraCrylic, 4.26 (166,182,148). Mission Models, 1.31 (177,185,163). Ocean Grey: 2.3B 4.4/1.1. Vallejo, 2.97 (97,110,118). XtraCrylic, 3.98 (106,118,124). Mission Models, 5.78 (114,121,125). Medium Sea Grey: 1.3PB 5.8/1.3. Vallejo, 3.55 (126,136,139). XtraCrylic, none available West of the Pond, so I couldn't test it. Mission Models, 2.12 (139,147,150). For me, there were some surprises here. I rather expected XtraCrylic to come out on top (British colors, British company, right?). Sadly, this was not the case. Vallejo took top spot for both Dark Earth and Ocean Grey. This was unexpected given their reputation - deserved or not - for poor color matches. Finally, Mission Models paints measured best for Dark Green, Sky, and Medium Sea Grey. I'm donning my flame-retardant suit now...

Hmmm. When zooming in to the photo, it appears to have two rows of six circles, with a number in each. Given that the Merlin is a V-12, I'd hazard a guess that this is not part of the engine installation or airframe, but some sort of maintenance aid or placard. Perhaps the results of a cylinder compression check?

Actually, it's more like "use photos of the plane you're building", unless there aren't any. Then try to find pics of other aircraft in that squadron and time period...

Thank you for the book link, Troy. I just put that one on order.

Sadly, JaPo seems to have fallen off the face of the Earth after the death of one of its principals. The website still exists, but any info is years old. I wish someone could step into the gap much as Eagle Editions did for Monogram several years ago, completing the long-awaited Ta152 title. Seeing the JaPo FW190D third volume finally published would be amazing. And maybe reprints of some of their older titles, too. Sigh. I can dream, can't I?

I didn't say it was, Graham. I was responding to the comment by another poster that he wasn't sure it had been established by the postwar period.

The RAL system was first established in 1927, with a set of 40 colors, and expanded over time...

BTW, that's "MicroSet" and "MicroSOL". There's also Walther's Solvaset. It's good, but is very "hot" (it was alcohol based, and might still be), and I'm not sure how it would affect water-based acrylics. There were no issues with it on enamels, but on rare occasions it would dry fast and leave a decal wrinkled.