SafetyDad
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This is from memory, but I think I’m correct in saying that the torpedo carrying prototype was described as very challenging and unpleasant to fly when fully loaded.
SD
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There we are! Pics posted purely for discussion. Source: Monogram Close Up Fw190F.
I think Graham is right about torpedo bombing - trying to create an agile torpedo carrying aircraft is an oxymoron really. That didn’t stop the British, Germans or Italians pursuing the idea.
However the BT Bomben were an elegant solution to some of the problems. They were much lighter, simpler and cheaper than torpedoes, and apparently quite effective in tests. The Luftwaffe (and KG200 especially) were tasked with repelling invasion, hence the pursuit of this concept. KG200 used Mistel combination aircraft off the Normandy coast in small numbers in 1944.
SD
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There was a thread here recently on this. I’m replying here on an iPhone in France, so not so easy to search. The Monogram Close-up on the Fw190F has some pics of examples- a truly awful quality in-flight shot and better pictures of a captured example from KG200 at war’s end. Standard tail and extended tail wheel strut on the captured aircraft- the other picture is so fuzzy it’s hard to see.
You can find BT bombs in 1/48 in the Trimaster Fw 190D12 boxes.
SD
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13 hours ago, tempestfan said:
It is my conviction/belief that Dark Green/Grass Green combinations are 71/82;
This idea makes a lot of sense to me.
Although we enthusiasts of late war colours are aware of the RLM edict to use up existing paint, it seems relatively few late war photos are captioned as a mix of old and new colours. Only the He 162 and Do 335 appear to be widely recognised as being finished in this way. Personally I wonder if the practice was more widespread than generally realised? Dark Green 71, Braunviolet 81 and Grass Green 82 seems more logical than ‘multiple shades of green with the same RLM number’ .
Although as a footnote I can understand the argument that Braunviolet could be a sort of ‘Luftwaffe Olive Drab’ prone to pronounced colour shift over time when exposed to sunlight.
SD
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Thanks @Troy Smith
I'm still in France, so away from my references. You’ve offered a neat lead-in to late war colours and the challenges these present.
That G-10 picture is thought provoking, with the blue under cowl and grey camouflage. The Australian 109G6 at Bankstown has traces of a similar colour on the cowling bulges - this machine is in original camouflage with hardly a panel painted in ‘recognised’ late war colours, capably supporting Michael Ullmans comments above on the drive to use up everything at wars end.
For what it’s worth, I’d opt for Blue 12 over Black, although I accept @Werdna’s view that paint lustre might just account for the difference in tone noted in monochrome photos. I’d also opt for Light Grey 77 as part of the wing camouflage. Proposing 77 as an upper wing colour for late war Luftwaffe aircraft has caused disagreement here before. However there’s ample photographic evidence of the use of light grey upper wing colours on Blue/Black 12 and other 190Ds, including the aircraft surrendered at Furth, and photographed in colour on the scrap heap there. Merrick offers an intriguing hypothesis about this colour, suggesting that 77 was much more than simply a colour for codes - he proposes that as this grey was allocated an RLM number in the sequence used for camouflage colours, ie 70 to 82, as opposed to colours used simply for codes and bands, it must have been intended for camouflage use.
HTH
SD
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Sadly I’ve no references to hand, so I’m posting this from memory- perhaps not wise. 😳
With that proviso, I can’t recall any mention of operational use of the Ju288. Like you, I thought this project was abandoned as a consequence of the engine problems and the demise of the Bomber B program.
I wonder if the article you refer to is a typo for the Ju388?
SD
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Sand and white - possibly white outlines over the sand camouflage underneath.
I suspect that the old Revell 1/32 Stuka set the red snake hare away. I had one built as a teenager and thought it looked great! However much later these colours were shown to be incorrect Alex Urbanke has produced a Luftwaffe im Focus volume that covers these within. I’m away from my references so don’t have the precise details to hand. As I recall he identifies at least two Ju87s marked in this way, with slight variations between them. I can’t recall the unit codes, but I’m pretty sure that they are different from the Revell kit.
Accurate decals are available for these markings within the 21st Century kit in 32, and aftermarket for others.
@G.R.Morrison and @MDriskill may have more.
HTH
SD
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Search Google for “Britmodeller Fw 190D undersurface colours”
There’s a couple of good threads with the diagrams of this.
Beyond my capabilities to link on my phone. SorrySD
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5 minutes ago, Werdna said:
Here's a question...
Not having the Crandall/japo books, do the authors speculate on whether these underside variations were actually 'official' patterns, or simply individual interpretations of a single pattern by whoever was holding the spray gun?
(Ps, hope your holiday weather is as good as it is here
)
As I recall the suggestion is that the various patterns were more than individual variations by painters. Crandall notes multiple examples of different combinations of paint colours and bare metal. Whether these were officially dictated or not it seems more likely to be the interpretation by various manufacturers plus changes over time. I think. I stand to be corrected by anyone here with the Crandall books in front of them. 😉And thanks, the weather is lovely. Much nicer than the cold air blown in from the North Sea that we left last week. 👍🏻
SD
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20 hours ago, G.R.Morrison said:
FW 190D-9 WNr.500658 (Mimetall-built) was “schwarze 12” of the 9./KG(J) 27, Uffz. Ernst Zielinski KIA 1.April 1945 in combat with U.S. fighters near Traun. He had taken off from Wels.
The “gelbe 11” of the II/JG 2 was photographed post-war on an airfield near Rommelshausen, its starboard wing sheared off. Its Werknummer may have been 40062x (Weser-Lemwerder built).
Thanks GRM. Further to your informative post - I’m away from my references but I’m pretty sure that no photos have surfaced of Black 12. The karoband checkered fuselage markings are very attractive but that unit didn’t always use them from the few photos we have.
Yellow 11 on the other hand is photographically documented and the subject of a detailed analysis within one of the Eagle books on the Dora.
The underside camouflage is, as others have suggested, complicated. Crandall outlines at least six painting variations noted according to the manufacturer. My references are in the UK, I’m in France, so that’s as far as I can go from memory.
Happy to supply more details when I get back if needed but that’s a little way away.
SD
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On 04/06/2023 at 22:22, MDriskill said:
I am not familiar with that one, unfortunately. What kit is it intended for?
It was intended for the Arii or Otaki kit, so from some way back. I’m away from my books and stash but could send pics when I get back?-
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I'm away from my references because I'm on holiday
However I can clearly recall an end-of-war picture of Fw spinners and props removed from aircraft by Allied forces. These had all sorts of spirals - black-green with white, but also white with dark green and white with (apparently) red.
SD
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4 hours ago, MDriskill said:
Great old (and I do mean OLD lol) thread!
Just to be clear, the replies span two completely different generations of Eduard kits. In this old 190 nut's opinion, the current ones are the clear winner for any radial-engine variant. But to my eye the Hasegawa kits are still worthwhile, along with the Tamiya A-8 / F-8. Tamiya's A-3 has some weird missteps though, definitely go Eduard for the early short-nose variants.
I loved the old Monogram A-5 as a kid. The only area they really muffed accuracy-wise, in my opinion, was the lower cowl shape and missing underside exhausts. The best point may be the engineering of gear struts guaranteeing perfect alignment, which others should study! Nothing looks worse than a 190 with wonky gear...
A bit left-field here (and I'm not that au fait with the earlier 190s), but how would you rate the old Medallion conversion set for the A-1 through A-3?
I only ask because I have one in the stash - it looks lovely (as did all their other stuff, of which I have a fair amount).
SD
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23 hours ago, nickhenfrey said:
Now I'm confused about 02/66
Most e pictures and drawings indicate 02 sidewalls, but of course I haven't seen a colour e-7 pic
It does seem even by April 41 everything else 66, except forward of the ip (where the rudder pedals are)? And what about the seat itself?
Try here
HTH
SD
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After a weekend with my 2 year old grandchild, here we are...
This is Ken Merrick's take
Source:
That's a Bf109E cockpit on the cover above - you can see the fuel and oil gauges with coloured rings around them to allow easy identification.
Here's a clearer picture of the Bf109G-6 cockpit in the NASM - the fuel line in yellow with the transparent section is very obvious on the right.. I can't find a clear picture of a Bf109E cockpit to see if the fuel line is the same as the G. I would prefer evidence for any statement on that, so I withhold judgement and simply say that it's quite likely that the E has the yellow line, but a clear photograph would nail the issue.
Source for the above picture:
Photos intentionally slightly distorted to discourage further replication and uploaded for the purposes of discussion/research in accordance with UK Copyright Law.
HTH
SD
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16 hours ago, 224 Peter said:
It is interesting that since then no other design team has tried copying. the 162's design.
I came across this only last week
Credit -Phil Salter Flickr
I have no idea of the manufacturer or model of this, but I thought of the He162 when I saw it. Anyone know?
And it seems Peter that your hunch about the V tail might be on the money...
@Mu17, very interesting to hear of your experiences with your flying model - quite possibly the closest any of us will get to experiencing its flight characteristics. Your description of the aircraft behaviour at the stall uses exactly the same words as contemporary accounts - check my posted pic above of 120 098 with the RAF officer standing in front - it's taken from a chapter entitled 'Falling Leaf' in the Classic book.
And yes, Thunder over the Reich is worth a read. Apparently Oblt. Demuth, the Gruppen Kommander of I.JG1 may never have flown his much-photographed 'Yellow 11' as he disliked the aircraft so much.
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@Werdna - nice link, thanks!
The two Phil Butler books linked above by @brewerjerry are probably the definitive references for the 'Rafwaffe' (and much more besides), with extensive information on aircraft captured by Allied forces across the globe. There are colour pictures in the second book that Jerry links to (including another of the He162 in colour about to fly from Farnborough to Brize Norton). Eric Brown's Wings of the Luftwaffe volumes also contain some clear and intriguing pictures of airframes captured by the RAF.
One anecdote from the Captured Aircraft Flight that I recall concerned a Luftwaffe POW asked to help with their Ju88A (one of the first airframes made available to the RAF). The RAF were encountering flight control problems with it. Apparently the POW identified the problem immediately and burst out laughing when he saw the airframe. It had one wing from a Ju88A-5 with the other (longer!) wing from an A-4...
SD
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On 17/05/2023 at 18:23, tempestfan said:
I was of the impression this is the location for the bomb selector/arming panel on JaBos - were there different panels for different purposes?
You're most likely correct - I have to say that I wasn't sure of this panel's purpose
Thanks!
SD
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16 hours ago, tempestfan said:
@SafetyDad - I'd have posted the link if you hadn't - actually quite a few of the series are currently available for which in particular on Abe some really crazy prices are called. EDIT: Actually they aren't - the Crécy site lets one add "OOP" and even "OOS" books to the cart. Not sure whether "OOP" means "still available as long as stocks last"? All 190 titles are OOS. The Savoia isn't even listed, neither is the Ar 234, though both are quite recent, Ju 88 Vol 3 is. Funny site...
Thanks for the clarification. I hadn't realised that the titles were listed as available, but were out of stock!
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11 hours ago, spruecutter96 said:
The "Classic Publications" books are very good, but are rare now and command some stupid prices on-line. They really do need to re-print these volumes.
As previous posters have said, Valiant Wings guides and the Squadron Signal "Walk Around" books are both a great source of information. Also, take a look at the reference sections of this and other websites.
Hope this helps.
Chris.
Classic Volumes currently in print - not cheap, but not extortionate either https://www.crecy.co.uk/classic
Perhaps more than a casual viewer/modeller might want if their interest in the subject is centred around building one kit.
11 hours ago, MDriskill said:I have a BUNCH of Fw 190 references, and can endorse the Aero Detail and Squadron Walk Around mentioned above. The Osprey is good too, but suffers from age (I can relate 🙄); many better kits have appeared since it was published.
+1 for the two references above - I don't have the Osprey. The Squadron Signal books are getting on now, but their format and informative text, with great pics and drawings represents excellent bang for your buck (as our Transatlantic friends might say). Plus they're easily found. Aero Detail are pricier, but excellent in detail terms, with really clear photos.
@Migfan your choice may be focused or narrowed for you by the specific aircraft you have chosen to model, plus the level of detail that you intend to incorporate. Don't forget the walkarounds available here and online
SD
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Not exactly what you're after Steve, but this is close - it's the cockpit of the BoB 109E-4 Wk Nr 4101. Handily, it's on the cover of the reference I've consulted, so the source is also evident in this shot (not my copy - it's from a current eBay listing. My iCloud is playing up this morning)
The short answer seems to be that the brake lines arc up, then over and down, to disappear behind the auxiliary instrument panel/radio behind the control column. Their eventual destination isn't visible here, but also wouldn't be seen on a model even if you were as close to the cockpit as this?
SD
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The Bounder's "Mini Me"? Converting A-models 1/72 NM-1 to the RSR supersonic reconnaissance aircraft
in Work in Progress - Aircraft
Posted
I've just found this thread and had a thoroughly enjoyable hour reading up to this point.
Excellent and inspiring stuff there Bill, plus some very helpful modelling tips and tricks.
Very impressed
SD