Nobby Clarke

@Paul Lucas I do not have a complete copy of TT-C-595, but FS 595 issued on 1 March 1956, includes a cross-reference to the corresponding 4-digit TT-C-595 colours in Table XII. Since there is no cross-reference given for FS 17142, I think it's safe to assume that it was a new colour. FS 17142 is listed in FS 595 Table XI - Safety Colors which identifies eight colours but offers no further explanation. I believe these eight colours correlate with ASA Z53.1-1953, “Safety Color Code for Marking Physical Hazards and the Identification of Certain Equipment,” American Standards Association, 1953. www.ansi.org. However, I have been unable to find a copy of this standard on the internet. The point of all this is that there was possibly paint available that corresponded to the eventual FS 17142 color from 1953 when the Safety Colors were standardized. Now we're truly down a rabbit hole.

Regarding item 2) above, I believe Mr. Lucas is referring to BS381C No. 797 Light Violet which was introduced in Amendment 2 (10 Apr 1970) of the 1964 edition of BS381C. No.796 Dark Violet was first seen in the 1948 edition of BS381C. Another color that was mentioned in the "Mauve Fairy Delta 2" thread is BS381C No.542 Ruby, but this was not introduced until the 1980 edition. FS17142 was included in the initial revision of the FS-595 standard from 1956. It is referred to as the "Safety Color" Magenta in Table XI.

email sent.

I also have the Tamiya 1/48 Swordfish Mk.I in my stash. I'm wondering what my best options are for an accurate set of aftermarket decals for a Stringbag from Ark Royal that was engaged in the attack on the Bismark. From the discussion above, it appears that Tamiya's decals are incorrect (representing the wrong aircraft) as well as the paint scheme and camouflage diagram. I would really appreciate some inputs from the forum with some accurate painting charts if possible.

@MaltaGC This is awesome work! Can you tell me what colours you selected for the top side and lower -looks to me like MSG/DG on top and Azure Blue or Light Mediterranean Blue on the underside. How did you select those colours? There has been a whole variety of “suggestions” for what the actual colours were. Brian Couchi proposes Dark Brown/Dark Green over Azure Blue in his book Malta Spitfire Vs - 1942. Others have postulated Mid Stone/Dark Earth over Azure, and then there’s Eduard’s Malta Spitfire boxing which suggests Deep Sky/Dark Slate Gray over Light Mediterranean Blue.

@Casey PM sent.

@Casey The most recent list of color matches that I found in the "RAF MAP and BSc Paints - Hopefully a Future Sticky" thread was from April 19, 2023. Did I miss a more recent post?

@Casey some of these matches to "British Aviation Colours of World War Two - Blue" show different DE2000 values than those quoted in your post from April 19th in the "RAF MAP and BSc Paints - Hopefully a Future Sticky" thread. Is this because you are posting more recent data here or am I missing something? If it's the latter, then do you have updated best matches for the RAF MAP paint list? Keep up this great work!

I note that Eduard's initial A6M2 Zero offering (11155 Tora Tora Tora! Dual Combo) specified a GSi Ceros (GUNZE) Mr.Color mix of: 70% C128 IJN Gray Green / 30% C60 RLM02 Gray, while all 3 subsequent A6M2 kit releases (82211 A6M2 Zero Type 11, 82212 A6M2 Zero Type 21 and 11158 Zero Zero Zero! Dual Combo) specify a different mix: 50% C336/H336 Hemp BS4800 10B21 / 50% C60/H70 RLM02 Gray. My suspicion is that Eduard discovered a better match and updated their paint instructions in subsequent kit releases. Has anybody compared the two Eduard GSi Creos paint mixes to Nick Millman's suggested Munsell 7.4Y 5.8/2.0?

Does anyone know what has happened to this wonderful resource? www.theworldwars.net appears to be unreachable.

This is a great photo, but it’s very difficult to invoke colors from a black and white image like this. Case in point is the color of the inside of the undercarriage door on the far right. This almost looks to be a reflective color like aluminum. Thanks for adding this photo to the thread.

Thank you @Jon Kunac-Tabinor for your reply. Of course, this begs the next question "how does the profile artist determine the recommended colour matches?" But, I fear I'm already way down the rabbit hole here.

Even the January 2022 edition of SAM references Dark Earth to Vallejo 71.029. My question for @Jon Kunac-Tabinor was whether SAM is using a different cross-reference guide than the one published by Vallejo and downloadable from their website titled "Historical Color References Guide for Aircraft and AFV Series". I am assuming that the staff at SAM have determined that the published Vallejo cross-references are not always the closest to the original colours.

Jon, I have always been curious about the Vallejo paint matches in SAM. How are they determined? For example, SAM usually quotes Vallejo 71.029 Dark Earth for WWII RAF aircraft instead of the more obvious 71.323 BS Dark Earth. Vallejo even includes 71.323 in their boxed paint sets for early WWII RAF colours in lieu of 71.029. I'm not challenging the accuracy of the SAM colour match, I'm just enquiring why the choice of 029 over 323. There are probably more differences between the SAM recommendations vs. what Vallejo publishes in their "Historical Color References Guide for Aircraft and AFV Series" document. Please enlighten us. Nobby

Graham, I’m not sure I understand your comment about the Colourcharts website. Are you referring to Jamie’s Colourcoats site or some other site?

Although it doesn't explain why BS285 and BS241 are so close, the following document written by Clive Elliott contains a lot of very interesting historical information on British Army dark greens including BS285 which was created for the British version of NATO Green with Infra Red Reflecting (IRR) properties. Its well worth the read. http://www.warwheels.net/images/BritishArmyGreenPaintsElliott1.pdf

Most instructive. Thanks Jamie

There has been a lot of interesting discussion in this thread about Dark Green, but frankly I have more of a challenge with creating acceptable Dark Earth. I would really like to get a hue that resembles the DE in the colour photo of the Spitfire from LIFE magazine that @Troy Smith pasted in his post above. Does anybody have a paint good choice for Dark Earth with the yellow/orange tint which this photo exhibits?

Has anybody tried AK Real Colors? They spray very nicely and settle to a smooth coat. I liked their Dark Earth and Sky, but guess what, their Dark Green (BS 241) is too bright and too olive, but not as bad as the MiG AMMO acrylic paint that @Tour de Airfix showed us earlier. Hmm, seems like a common theme. I’m planning to add a drop or two of a darker green shade to bring it back to the RAF Museum hue.

There's another program by Sensuallogic called PaintMaker where you can create mixes for a target sRGB color using Createx Illustrator airbrush colors. Note you must use the Illustrator colors not the normal range of Createx Airbrush or Wicked colors available at hobby stores like Hobby Lobby. https://sensuallogic.com/paintmaker

I agree that @Phantome has created an excellent resource for model colours, but with the exception of stating a preference for Gunze, a mention that Tamiya XF-81 has changed hue over the years and a discussion of the three Humbrol Dark Greens he does not provide any insight into the accuracy of the other DG’s mentioned in his table of paint colours. This is perhaps a very tall order for a one stop web page; when would he ever be done writing it? Which brings me back to my previous point that discussion threads like this one in BM are a wonderful resource for modelers to share their experiences and preferences. I’m still waiting to find the optimum set of air brushable acrylics for RAF Temperate Land Scheme. Thanks to everyone who is sharing their info and photos - keep them coming!

I'm not sure that we need another set of swatches, although I wouldn't say "no" if @Jamie @SovereignHobbies decided to publish such a thing. The "go to" reference for WW2 colour swatches is generally accepted to be the pull out colour card in the back of the RAF Museum (RAFM) book by John Tanner "British Aviation Colours of World War Two". The discussion in this thread is a question of accuracy of the commercially available model paint ranges. Which range of model paints provide the best matches to the RAFM colour card? I hear that @SovereignHobbies enamel paints are excellent, but I'm an acrylic user so I would really like to hear from fellow BM modellers which acrylic paint ranges you believe provide the most accurate matches.

Right. 70.893 is not that close. For Vallejo Model Colors try: 70.892 Yellow Oliva FS34083 RAL 6008, or 70.894 Olive Green/RLM 80 they are both much closer.