Our Ned
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Posts posted by Our Ned
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Sea Dart was removed from Invincible, and the flight deck extended, after the Falklands crisis - seventeen years after it, during a refit from May 1999 to March 2000.
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I don't think the darker shade is black - it looks lighter than the colour of the stern pennant number in the second picture.
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Whilst there was an Admiralty-designed patterned scheme for her, I've seen no documentary or photographic evidence that she ever wore it.
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According to Theo Ballance et al "The Squadrons and Units of the Fleet Air Arm" (Tonbridge: Air-Britain, 2016), she had a Swordfish until December 1939 when she embarked a Walrus. At that time I believe she wore overalll Home Fleet Grey.
Note that the configuration represented in the kit is early 1930s - by 1939 she had three multiple 2pdr mountings, two quadruple 0.5" mountings and RDF (radar) fitted, and a sponson and cut-out section of the tower bridge behind it at shelter deck level (starboard side only), as well as the catapult and crane (which are in the White Ensign set).
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The photo of the battleship appearing through the smoke does not show Valiant. The ship has a heavy tripod foremast with a large foretop, as opposed to the tower bridge fitted to Valiant (and Queen Elizabeth and Warspite) before the war. The relative spacing of the foremast platforms looks different to those of any of the Royal Sovereign class or Repulse and the foc's'le is to short for Hood. She also has some sort of weapon on "B" turret - Barham had a UP mounting there for part of her wartime career, so I think she is Barham rather than Malaya.
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Thanks again for posting photos. Some identifications:
- The two photos of a cruiser in a Norwegian fjord show HMS Devonshire at Kirkenes, where she picked up a Norwegian troop convoy to escort to Tromsø on 15 April 1940, in company with HMS Inglefield and Berwick.
- Both of the aircraft carriers you identify as possibly Ark Royal are indeed her.
- The battleship emerging from the bomb splashes appears to be HMS Barham.
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Thanks for the additional photos, Paul. Berwick wore a camouflage scheme during the 1940 Norway campaign, with Home Fleet Grey hull and patterned upperworks. A port side view of her is in the background of IWM Photo A15848 (ignore the 1943 date in the caption) - note the pattern on her port side was different to that on the starboard side. By the time she went to the Mediterranean, her hull was light grey, but the upperworks pattern remained. The drawings at https://world-war.co.uk/Kent/berwick.php3 appear to be reasonably good representations of the schemes.
The royal visit photos could well have been taken during the royal trip to the USA and Canada - the Town class cruiser in the background of one shot could be Southampton or Glasgow, both of which accompanied the liners carriying the royal party on their outward and return journeys.
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Paul,
Many thanks - fascinating and useful photos. However, beware of colour schemes! If modelling Berwick in the period your Dad served in her, she would not have been wearing "good old grey and buff"; after her update to carry the fixed catapult and hangar, she did not return to the East Indies Station, where the scheme was white hulls and upperworks, and yellow funnels, or the China Station (White hulls, Grey upperworks). She went to the America and West Indies Station (hence the location of some of your photos) where ships were painted light grey (AP5507C) overall.
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The kit appears to depict York in her Second World War camouflage scheme; instructions visible online show planked foc's'le deck as far aft as the rear of the bridge, and around the catapult area, and a planked quarterdeck. Prewar photos (eg https://890d14fe-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/robertjohnterry/hms-york-gallery-2/IMG_0054.jpg?attachauth=ANoY7cow-FtBjqNgKZnBpmHUuuNsbZnqAYJ1MIP8-0o-mx2Wg44JWP-xT0xGcFy6p0ZQFP3zlVhEToF6EB7jl4VRgo2O8dU7iLteIn_zCHy5OfcjosbL55DfFWE8HFEPOoP8iB3eeyq4PMtTNpyjr7HOW-ZRrKquOOxzr1cb1l4n0q5j5TeKlvrPTQNayiQ_T8FLjXU3bQ8mB4Ip2IvcbCSTxfR9B07vSRMTIreBJnYff2UxZDpfH-4%3D&attredirects=0, https://890d14fe-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/robertjohnterry/hms-york-gallery/IMG_0037.jpg?attachauth=ANoY7cr76scuptjcIkT2J_jkoDhViNpf9uk2k8kNbcSO-tSGKDsewMVPopO0aBaRw1HzpFds_JeLL3tUi55tRWKOT0J7X5nvJ6YoV5dPCz6XA8GbUm75lsLdzwqsFA5aPv1IFIuFrhwBWpuaidizz_h28StVemvt8VLjOGi0KkE9KXy0DRFQK9Bdcctpm6_kevP7IYRESOPMyoq_A_L9ZH8RNk02FzunSotF4NydKy4zhHVqVL17iy8%3D&attredirects=0) show that, at least when the phots were taken, "B" gundeck, plus tyhe 4" gundeck, were also planked.
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The photo of Berwick in a fjord which Mike E posted is available on the IWM website, ref A7319, where the caption says " ON BOARD HMS VICTORIOUS. 23 TO 28 JANUARY 1942, ON BOARD THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER AT HVALFJORD, ICELAND. HMS VICTORIOUS ALONG WITH OTHER SHIPS OF THE FLEET ON PATROL IN THE NORTH ATLANTIC IN SEARCH OF THE GERMAN BATTLESHIP TIRPITZ - Object description: The cruiser HMS BERWICK refuelling. The tanker can be seen on the starboard side.
". (excuse SHOUTING - the main caption on the website is in capitals!)
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Jeff wrote "An Ajax hull doesn't require cutting, as the two ships had the same hull, turrets and superstructures." This isn't quite correct, according to Norman Friedman British Cruisers: Two World Wars and After (Barnsley: Pen & Sword Books, 2010). Friedman writes "... 8ft longer than a Leander, with 1ft more beam, 6in more depth and drawing 3in more." 8ft might show - the other increases are irrelevant in most scales! Also, the armour belt was a different shape, as the upper section had to be longer in the Amphion class to protect both boiler rooms.
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The other end of a ship could get quite wet, too. This is the quarterdeck of a different Ark Royal in the Moray Firth in September 1978, in the tail end of a hurricane.
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Similar jibs were fitted in the cruiser London, Queen Elizabeth (but not Valiant) and the catapult training ship Pegasus (https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205145509) - in Pegasus, the hatch to the hold, and the catapult, were quite close to the base of the crane.
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At least two other Captains class ships wore a similar scheme to that in the first post - photos of each appear in the IWM collection - Curzon (Photo Ref A26373) and Fitzroy (FL13142) - although neither shows the lighter-coloured funnel and Curzon had light-coloured pendant numbers.
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Given that Ekins was delivered in the camouflage pattern and colours applied in the US yards before delivery to the RN in late 1943 (https://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/images/hmsekinsmpl2874.jpghttp://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=45163 - scroll down to first Ekins photo), and the scheme shown in OP's photo is much later - apparently late 1944 (https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205157999) - I'm not convinced that she woulod have been repainted to a USN scheme. That said, I've no idea what scheme WAS painted up!
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"Cast" in order of appearance: Saratoga, US destroyers (Dunlap, Fanning and Cummings - not sure which order), Quilliam, Suffolk, Gambia, Renown, Illustrious, London, Gambia, "Q", "R" and "N" class destroyers (including Napier), Queen Elizabeth, Valiant, Richelieu, Ceylon, Tromp, Birmingham.
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The small parts represent the directors for the multiple 2-pounder pompom mountings, fitted with the aerials Type 282 RDF (later called "radar"). Type 285 was fitted to her HA.DCTs (two above the bridge, two on the after superstructure), with six Yagi arrays, rather than the two fitted for Type 282.
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According to Page 51 of the same book, "... the 5th [Destroyer Flotilla] carried no bands." Kipling was part of that flotilla until it was disbanded (just after her return to Alexandria as depicted in the photograph).
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There does seem to be a slight dent there! The other photo shows the starboard side of the aircraft, standing on the flight deck just abaft the starboard seaplane crane.
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The photos posted by dhogue appeared in the second issue of the quarterly publication "Warship" published in 1977. They form part of an article entitled "HMS Ark Royal Part 1: Design" by JD Brown (as far as I know, Part 2: Operational Career never appeared). The photos aren't credited, but there is another from what seems to be the same series on the back cover of the first issue, where the caption states that it was taken in Portsmouth in March 1940, with reference "CPL. W/1/016-017" (presumably Conway Photographic Library). No serial is visible on the aircraft, but the code E8F was allocated to the 2nd Battle Squadron, specifically to HMS Resolution; she was allocated Swordfish E4222 in this period.
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Although Robert has said he plans to make a model of Mutine later in the war, beware that the photo he originally posted is reversed (and censored to remove the pendant number). The IWM has this photo (reference A15851) as well as the correct uncensored version (Reference FL 16588).
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robgizlu wrote "Royal Navy HACS MkIV GB with Tyoe 285 Radar x4 - (I'm not certain Cornwall had this ..." Cornwall was fitted with two HACS Mk I in her mid-1930s modernisation; I've seen no reference to her being fitted with any more modern system. Similarly, I haven't seen anything saying she was ever fitted with AR RDF (radar) Type 285. The well-known photo of the ship sinking appears to show a smooth top surface to the port HA.DCT (ie no RDF aerial), although that is surprising since she was under air attack, so the cover should have been open!
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IBG's 1/700 "HMS Hotspur 1941" has arrived on my workbench. Similar in concept and design to IBG's Garland, Ithuriel and Glowworm, it is therefore of generally good quality, but unfortunately suffers from poor research in one significant area. The kit shares many components with the Glowworm kit, including the foc's'le deck (part J4) and "B" gundeck (Part I1), both of which have the circular recesses below the 4.7" gun mounting positions which were needed for the guns in the"E", "F" and "G" classes to elevate to the full 40⁰. Similarly, the main deck (Part E8) and "X" gundeck (Part E5) also have these recesses. However, the "H" class had a later mark of gun, which did not need this feature, and so had a continuous deck below each gun mounting. Thus either the deck recesses should be filled and sanded smooth, or a ship of an earlier class should be modelled. (Note that the "E" and "F" classes were 6 feet longer overall than the "H" class - the "G"s were the same length as the "H"s).
A couple of lesser snags are also present;
- As with the Glowworm kit, the TSDS winches are missing, and depth charge reload racks (Parts J5, PE17, PE18) are supplied instead.
- The galley funnel, extending from the crew's galley (Part A3) diagonally across the starboard side of the forefunnel and up its after face, is not provided
Apart from these glitches, a nice kit (although I have yet to start assembly).
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RN cruiser 4-inch crew shelters
in Maritime WWII
Posted
Most (all?) of these structures were open on the inboard side. As an example, the photo of Newcastle under repair in the US at http://steelnavy.com/images/Picoftheweek/town006.jpg shows part of the inboard side of the port structure. In some cases, the actual gun crew shelters were an enclosed area within the structure. Often the RU lockers would be fitted adjacent to, the shelter.