Vanroon

Perhaps this? I'm led to believe this is one of the Aboukir conversions. A couple more of the same machine. Captioned; RAF S'marine Spitfire 5b. HF Trop Aboukir Egypt 103MaintUnit 1943. I trust this isn't muddying the waters. G

My paternal great-grandmother was employed at Woolwich Arsenal filling bombs from 1915 to 1917. She recalls becoming very nervous when Gothas and Zeppelins were abroad. Bless her heart. G

Nice photo. Painting a roundel? G

Missed that by a couple of weeks, however if you have 2 pair going spare for a West Aussie I'd really appreciate them. G

Gwallt72, I'd certainly love to see the masked Mosquito photo. Clearly if they exist, photos were made in the painters zone. Were they in a jig or trolley? I've let my file sharing site lapse since the crack-down on copyright violations, the subs trebled, so the only way you can get the masks is to email me, citing the scale you require at guzzi#space,net,au. Correcting the obvious errors and include Spitfire Mask in the subject line. I have commenced on Hurricane masks, but progress is slow, as work is mad just now. G

The exterior parts, he's had a go at grafting Airfix parts to the Revell. This is a very well known aircraft, differences of this magnitude will have been noticed some time sooner in the 67 years since the war. There have been no aftermarket offerings from any manufacturer of different sized radiator openings until the Hasegawa kit, which apparently needs correction. Perhaps there will come available a fix for the Revell kit. The Mk.VII in our museum has the same sized/shaped radiator intakes and external metal-work as the Lancaster Mk.I/III, Beaufighter Mk.II. The experiment with two-speed, two-stage Merlins 85/87 had annular radiators, like the Lincoln. I refer everyone to SAM Modellers DataFile on the Avro Lancaster and Peter C Smiths (Ian Allan Publishing) Avro Lancaster book among other references. G

Hi Simon, I was unaware there were 'large' and 'small' radiator openings on the Merlin Power Egg. I have just done a quick browse of my Lancaster references and none mention such differences. The 'Egg' was initially designed for the Beaufighter Mk.II and subsequently adapted to the new 4 engined version of the Manchester. Revell do have a bit of a habit of mis-scaling such things lately. There's quite a discussion about the too wide engines on the Revell Halifax. Lufbramatt makes points in this thread. http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.p...evell+lancaster Our local Lancaster, a Mk.VII NX622 has radiator openings that look the same as Airfix represents in their latest kit. The only other engine changes of which I'm aware are the Hercules fitted Mk.IIs and the Mk.VI with the annular radiators, ala Lincoln and Shackleton. G

Occa, not Spitfires, but when they made the MB326 overall grey, even with the rub-down and prep the disruptive showed through. Just saying. When Spitfires were delivered, things were tight. The Mk.VCTs came from a number of batches. If the northern dry season was on, desert camouflage was left intact until first major service or 'wet' season, whichever came first. The light colour was overpainted with foliage green. Temperate schemes were left intact until major service. Ocean Grey wasn't very durable and 'chalked' badly. It was generally replaced with earth brown. In the build-up to the invasion of Japan, aircraft were being prepared for ground concealment to foil 5th columnists. Hence the overall foliage green scheme which is often explained away with vague expression of perception of pattern being visible. Sure, one may perceive the old demarcations, but what of the colour? Anyway, the RAAF didn't fly Thunderbolts under their administrative region. However the Indian colours were apparently very similar to Australian colours. G

Thanks. Fixed that and a dimension. G

Relevant drawings in 'Spitfire Mk.IX & Mk.XVI Engineered' Paul H Montforton, Montforton Press. A very narrow focussed volume with a wealth of info on those two types. It may be in your library. \ It has all the pitching details of those aircraft including the radiators. Both coolant radiators at 15.25"x12.5" with oil and intercoolers at 9"x12.5" each, come out at 2.105 sq'. The free opening at the back of the radiused front opening is listed at 5.79"x22.21" or 128.5959 sq". Measured wing surface to tangent of lip it is 6.28"x23.19". So, if the tropical radiator is 2.04sq', the answer for Jennings is; No, but very close. G edit: ISBN 978-0-9784001-0-1

That line has been the prod which had me delving into the technique. DAP Beauforts are one of the few examples of close to identical demarcation I have seen in my research. Complete sub-assemblies of the nose and cockpit section of the aircraft were built and painted by sub-contractors off site. Presumably using Bristols MoD contract as guideline. DAP were building Mk.IIs for an RAF order which went ultimately unfilled after Singapore. I have (somewhere) a photo made showing a line of rail flat cars with 2 noses per waggon. So close to identical, they must have been masked schemes. Hard masks one presumes, there was no spare rubber around at the time. Tho' Dad says they could spot differences without looking at the numbers by the pattern on the wings. G

No. Temperate radiators were shallower than Tropical radiator and ductwork. They first appeared on the Mk.V series and the Mk.XII. Mk.IX radiators were of that increased depth. G

Edit: "Gaffe removed 28 Aug 2015"Everyone be looks so relaxed for "during the Battle of Britain". My say. G

I can offer you a .pdf of my masks to the scale you require. http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1620/1548...69/52584972.jpg The local habadasher may have some rubber-backed curtain material. Should you decide to use rubber, observe how quickly it deteriorates with repeated wetting of solvent based paint. Modern acrylics are fine. Write to me at guzzi#space,net,au. G

Had a thought about the name of the aircraft pre-dating RAAF usage. Had a dig on an old HDD and found this image. The 349th were in the vicinity and changing to P-47s around the time A29-575 was taken on charge, Nov'43. Markings on the tail gel as well. Just my thoughts on the origins of the nick-name. I am now keen to do an overall foliage green 'Black Magic' with the correct number and letters. G

That's the very Aerogram and stamp I display with my model when it's on show. That and Stewart Wilsons book led me to paint it in faded condition. I met Mr Len Waters at a rodeo in Mackay Qld in 1984/5ish. One of his grandsons spotted a little Spitfire badge on my jacket and piped up, "My Granddad was a fighter pilot in the War" pointing him out. We met at interval and I was mightily impressed with the gentleman. He mentioned flying an old Kittyhawk down to Townsville where he took leave while it was overhauled and painted. There's a good chapter on him in 'The Black Diggers' by Rob't A Hall. G

Thanks for your comments. It's all paint, from when the Mauve kit first became available. G

Well done! I have a 'photogravure' (tinted b& w photo) on my wall the last two years of that exact publicity flight. You skills are not to be questioned, however if you feel the need to improve for the next one, get the Hasegawa kit. A very nice little canvas for paint. This is my version of 'Black Magic' for whom ever bought it up. Made with the 1/48 Mauve kit. G

The only evidence of masks being used on complete airframes my Fathers peer group can recall was the use of whipped-edge canvas 'patterns' at some of the more 'central' WWII Maintenance Units in the UK. These were apparently something like 'French Curves' we used in the drafting game to simulate the original pattern after re-skinning parts of aircraft. Their sizes were from 1x1 to 1x 3 meters, were used in combination to define the edge. The painters didn't like using them because of the mess they generated, both to the operator and on the job surface. Milne Bay, that film clip is availabe by searching for [urlhttp://www.youtube.com/user/Bomberguy#p/u[/url] at Youtu.be. The painter was a female. I adore that generation of women in mens jobs. G

It's quite well documented that for Spitfires at the least, were built as sub assemblies from components from various sub-contractors. These sub-assemblies were painted in workshops all over Britain. The wings and fuselages were painted while they were still incomplete. Final assembly was the last stage at which paint would be applied. Quite literally, the wing-root fairings were the last and only parts of the fighting airframe to be painted once the aircraft was readied for service. Every other bit will have been delivered in full camouflage from their diverse suppliers. A mat(te) to regularise the paint on (say) a tailplane pair to their moving surfaces would make perfect sense, because they were made in different places until the advent of ply/metal elevators. The same for wings. Metal workers built the wings, different metal-workers made the flying surface structure which were then passed along to tailors and seamstresses to be clad in their surface. The difference in practice of completing a metal wing and it's fabric surfaces require different materials, procedures, time-frames and skills. The idea an aircraft in WWII Britain was painted as a unit, as we do our models, is an idealistic, but logistical nightmarish concept. The photo of the Curtiss painters at work on a Hawk wing assembly (vertical in it's trolley) clearly shows a semi-rigid mask, possibly plywood, perhaps tin, strapped to the wing, spaced off the surface for a smooth feathered demarcation. Q. Would there have been a mask for both upper surface colours and another for the underside colour? The physical complication of moving a weighty, floppy mask, wet with paint along the edges half the time, isn't intuitive to anyone who has worked in a pressure industrial environment. I'm hopeful this will be resolved one day, as it's surely a fishbone. G

Hi WIP, 8% difference is greater than the difference in 1/76 to 1/72. I think we can all agree that is easily visible. Think Jeeps. I'm looking at my 1/48 Airfix MkVb with tropical options and my 1/48 Mk.XII The Mk.Vb shows an appreciable visual difference between the temperate and tropical cooler housings. The larger of of the Mk.Vb options is slightly smaller than the Mk.XII cooler housing.

I thought the horse comment was a light touch of wry humour. Oh, I'm sure there were masks or guides employed in the early days of WWII by the British Aviation Industry. It's just that I believe they were something other than strategically crucial rubber and horse-hair (?) matting. The only despair in this conversation is of them that support the supposition. Indeed I'd love to have evidence of those crisply defined aircraft component being unmasked. But on a logistic and economic basis, highly improbable. A steel rod guide, a kraft paper pounce matte, or thin ply on a deal frame, canvas with whipped edges perhaps, but I'd be guessing as there's no evidence. Ficus elastica is an ornamental plant which when economically exploited as a latex source was found to deliver inferior rubber, but far better than that from a contirtionist. Commercial rubber was from plantation grown South American plants (Hevea brasiliensis). The 3% of rubber received after Japanese occupation was actually at sea when the invasion took place. The plantations in Kerala State were still very young in 1942. Alternate supply was almost entirely from wild trees in South America and plantations in the Belgian Congo. Very labour intensive. Did Dunlop ever actually grow rubber? That 100 ton per quarter allocation was well under requirement. Massive amounts of manufactured rubber goods came to Britain from USA which pretty much owned all of the plantations and wild harvest leases in South America, that's where the short-fall was made up. Pure debt, it was expensive. I understand synthetics quite well. To 1980, natural rubber from countries occupied by Japanese forces had yet to match pre 1942 production figures. As a modeller who uses masks, rubber backed fabric as it happens, I believe I am able achieve as tight a demarcation on my models as skilled wartime workers could, free-hand, in the very real world of 1939-1945. G

What ever the exchange rate was has little bearing on rubber supply. As of 1942 Commonwealth rubber supply disappeared reducing imports of raw and processed latex to 3% of 1941 tonnages. Alternate supplies were found, recycling efforts redoubled and synthetic substitutes developed. However supplies never recovered to pre-1941 levels. Areas captured by Japan were limited to supply of only Japan and as a consequence the rubber industry in occupied Netherlands East-Indies, Malaya, Borneo etc slipped into disrepair through non-investment in capital equipment and ageing trees. The workforce was dislocated and dispersed. Rubber supply has never returned to pre-1941 levels from countries occupied in WWII, because producers turned to alternate crops, palm-oil etc. Then there's fibre supply. All those tail-less horses. G

Well, lets look at the cost per ton in 1939-1945 money. That's another one. G

Longevity entirely dependent on the chlorination and ultra-violet intensity of your display cabinet and the number of complete immersions per week. Say double. G