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Buz

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  1. Chuck The decals are about as accurate as they can be, however if you drop me a PM, I'll forward some photos depending on which airframe you want to attempt. As to what happened, well just a small correction on the info from Sydhuey. Aircraft from P-40K-10 onwards finished in OD/NG, they were sent overseas and when they arrived at the RAF Maintenance Unit, they were finished in the scheme of the day, The K-10 onwards up to the M models all in Desert Finish (later changed to TLS as units moved into Sicily and Italy), N models as far as can be told went straight to TLS, or variations there of, depending on which Maintenance Unit they went through. Regards Buz
  2. Phantome As stated the colour in the scallops is normally the fuselage colour. What is interesting is that for Tomahawks the colour was as per fuselage colours, so quite often was both the Brown and Green, unlike Kittyhawks which tended to have a single colour. When the Tomahawks were repainted in Desert finish this is where it gets interesting, some stayed as brown and green others were actually repainted so there's no hard and fast rule, you need a photo of the aircraft you are researching. Regards Buz
  3. BS_w When talking about P-40E camouflage scheme's verses later schemes the P-40E did not have the Medium Green on the leading and trailing edges. Earliest I can find this type of scheme is on the P-40K's, but certainly not on the E or F models. The British orders came with two different browns as well as 071-21 on the lower colour as Graham states, its not Sky type S, its Sky Type S Gray". If I recall correctly the earlier brown was Dupont 71-009 which gave rise to the sand and Spinach look (lighter brown than Green). Later brown gave a darker colour, leading to a closer match between the two colours (sorry brain failure on its Dupont number sorry). Regards Buz
  4. Dennis They used both methods certainly in the Middle East as shown in the Pictures above, for the UK based aircraft I've seen both methods as well as no dope at all (especially on the .303, not so much on the .30 cals) Buz
  5. Mark I've not seen one in any publication, however please drop me a PM, and I will enlighten you Buz
  6. Think the horse will be ready for a break after this, it's starting to look and feel about as dead as I do in the mornings Post #15 – Brian That photo of 'White 61' on page 16 appears to lack a yellow surround on the fuselage star. Was that photo taken at a later date when the nose art was changed? Good catch! On the topic of insignia, the photo at the bottom left on page 12 of Checkertails shows a 'star and bar' without the blue edging on the bar. I take it the upper port wing insignia would be the same. Any comments? The horse may not be dead but it's barely breathing! Wanna give it another kick? Trixie #61 I question if she’s OD/NG as somewhere along the lines a filter has been used on the photo. Why I say this is the Yellow around the blue has virtually merged with the blue, and the Medium Green 42 scallops on the tail fin and rudder are not visible. Check out the Picture attached of one that’s certainly OD/NG (front of the photo on the carrier you can make the tail out) P-40L-TH-002 by Buz 1970, on Flickr p-40s_aboard_uss_ranger by Buz 1970, on Flickr Post #16 – Mark At the very least it appears that by the serial numbers provided we are dealing with three P-40s named "Trixie." First we have the two #40s, which based on the information provided in Carl's book are the P-40F-15 shown in the photograph (possibly taken in June '43, when the caption indicates Bloomer got this second victory?) and the P-40L-5 shown in the profile, which indicates a date of September '43. Then we have one #61, which based on the serial number that Buz provided would be a P-40L-1. And since #61 in the photograph has no checkertails, and Carl indicates these were applied starting in June '43, was this the first "Trixie?" Remember also that, as Buz mentioned earlier and is detailed in Carl's book, the P-40F-15 went to the 324th FG and was renamed "Anne." There is a photo of "Anne" in Carl's book as well. The F models went to North Africa late Jan 43, the L’s not until early March 43……..however operations weren’t flown til April. I cant tell you when the Pilot joined the Unit, or when he was CO of the Sqdn (I don’t track pilots all that much so cant say which would be first) I personally don't know why some P-40Fs and Ls were camouflaged whilst others the basic OD/NG, or if there is any way to determine by serial number or such. Perhaps Buz can enlighten us. – Why the aircraft were camouflage the way they were? Well depends on where they were slated to go. The Late F models (most) were finished in Two tone desert Camouflage, with those slated to be used in the Pacific and at home in OD/NG (similar rule of thumb was applied for the L models). Curtiss were told how many to finish in each of the schemes, and whilst the whole answer isn’t available (I don’t have access to the Contracts or contract amendments) the Factory Billing does give some indication as the last entry on each aircraft is where it was intended to go (whether it did or did not is something else entirely). A quick look at a few sample aircraft give the following (note I’m only working on later model F aircraft and L’s, the story behind the early model F’s doesn’t help us here, and only working from photos not written text, so serials cannot be questionable. 41-14270 (Middle East #unknown 33FG “Belchin Bessie/no Cajun”– original scheme desert) – Slated in factory records for “Heath” 41-19835 (Pacific #257 “Betty Anne” 68FS – original scheme OD/NG) Slated in factory records for “Poppy” 41-19825 (Pacific #102 “Miss Alma” 44FS – original scheme OD/NG) Slated in factory records for “Poppy” 41-14378 (Middle East n #unknown. “Dammit” 33FG – original scheme desert) – Slated in factory records for “Heath” via Philadelphia 41-19821 (Pacific #208 68FS – original scheme OD/NG) - Slated in factory records for Stockton California. 41-20010 (Middle East #10 “Sweet Stuff” 64FS – original scheme desert) - Slated in factory records for “Ache” via Newark 41-19927 (Middle East #unknown 325FG – original scheme desert) - Slated in factory records for “Ache” via Newark 41-20005 (Middle East #unknown 325FG – original scheme desert) - Slated in factory records for “Ache” via Newark 42-10644 (Middle East No # Unknown Unit – original scheme desert) - Slated in factory records for “Blot” via Newark 42-10453 (Middle East #32 64FS/47FG – original scheme desert) - Slated in factory records for “Ache” via Newark 42-10578 (Middle East #unknown 33FG – original scheme OD/NG) - ) - Slated in factory records for Langley Field (for US Home base - however sent to MTO on CVE-28) Poppy - New Caledonia Heath - Cairo, Egypt Ache/Blot – Unknown (but aircraft were used in MTO) Buz
  7. Gents I'll try and address some of your questions and thoughts in the next couple of posts Post #12 – Brian Did 'White 40/TRIXIE' have the outboard gun removed from each wing? It appears many 325th FG birds did. – I have some pictures of Trixie as TIFF images of the aircraft, one angle you can’t see, the other seems to hold 3 guns in the wing Would all three squadrons want to bring all of their aircraft up to one standard i.e. make them all operate like the later 'L' version. – No this was personal Pilots choice. Some liked the full weight of fire from the 6 guns, others liked the lighter handling of 4 guns, although some were modified to allow for the increased Ammunition of the 6 guns (however also lead to feed issues). This is a general statement not just for the 325FG, as there are example of P-40E’s having 2 guns removed, and in some cases reverse mods, with L models and N-1 models having additional guns added. Post #13 – Brian page 17 which shows some sort of light coloured domed plug in the outer gun port. Is a similar plug used on 'White 40/TRIXIE'? Can’t see a dome on Trixie – to me she has a six gun arrangement Hard to tell for sure in a small photo. Other photos of 325th FG P-40s show various gun modifications e.g. bottom left photo on page 16, top left photo on page 14. The often reproduced photo of Lt Col Baseler's 'Mortimer Snerd/Stud' show the outer gun port completely covered, but I believe this aircraft was a 'L' version. – Mortimor Snerd/Stud serial 41-20006 Post #14 – Mark Photos can be deceiving, but it appears this P-40F had the dark earth and middle stone over azure blue camouflage, the small window on the windscreen, and all six wing guns. Agreed Unless something new comes to light, when I model "Trixie" this is what I'm going with. The main thing missing is what the port side of this airplane looked like. If you look closely at #61, it appears the nose art is the full 'green dragon' emblem of the 318th FS, similar to what's shown on page 10 in the same book. Did Trixie #40 have this too? Again, artistic license and assumptions come into play! – Port side of Trixie shows she at least had the Trixie character on the nose so would I suggest that the dragon was also present (can’t 100% tell on the photo). Will flog the horse just a little more in the next post Buz
  8. Mark/Brian I’ll check through what I have here and try to find some answer (sorry being late switch answer but had a shocking outbreak of work......need to rest now) Buz
  9. Brian I have a P-40L marked as #61 Trixie as 42-10440......... Buz
  10. Hi Brian My info has come from research over the last far to many years (has it been 25 years already???...yikes no wonder the other half thinks P-40's are my other girlfriend).......I believe the identifications came from talks with Carl, Dwayne Talbot (325FG vet), Chris Shores works and the Sqn records. I would need to go back through my emails and notes to find exactly when this one was identified (or I could just be lazy and send someone an email if you really need it - but may take a day or two to get a reply). regards Buz
  11. Brian I'm not sure if this helps you, I have #40 Trixie as a P-40F-15CU serial 41-19893, later used by the 316FS/324FG as "Anne" Regards Buz
  12. Hi Brian Whilst the first part of your information is correct (that they flew long tailed F models off the CV's), however I believe you may be slightly mistaken as overall they flew a mixed bag of both L models and F models during operations. First noted Loss was an L model in April, an F model was lost on the 7th May 1943. Other examples for you: Claims made by the 325th FG 20th May 1943: - 1Lt Grove in a P-40L 42-10474, LtCol Austin in P-40L 42-10664 (#44), Flgoff Smallreed in P-40L 42-10438, 1Lt Burns in P-40L 42-10432, 1Lt Collins in P-40F 41-19966 and Capt Howe in P-40F 41-20005 (Source: C Shores: A History of the Mediterranean Air War) Basic rule of thumb is try and get a photo of your topic, as many as possible to try and work out which type it was. I believe the piece you are talking about below the cockpit is shown within this photos attached, if correct please note the datablock below. 3484361016_e8a7a16223_o by Buz 1970, on Flickr 3481430595_820ec7d866_o by Buz 1970, on Flickr The 325FG aircraft that have been identified as P-40F models have all been block F-15 and F-20..................now taking cover from in coming..... Regards Buz
  13. As stated above its Sand, yet slightly pink. This was painted directly over the OD, with the unders remaining NG. Picture is from the Life photos. P40 Tunisia-Libya by Buz 1970, on Flickr Buz
  14. Note sure if this is any good, maybe you can get something from it, or at least confirm pattern etc - Source is My negative collection Buz
  15. Brian Maybe this will help, photo I picked up from Evilbay a while ago. If you want the original scan (7.5mb TIF file) drop me a PM Buz
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