EwenS

The fire was 3 months before Crosley joined the ship.

The accounts for the first accounting period to 30 April 2019 were due to have been filed by 16 Jan 2020. The Company would have been issued various reminders about non compliance which have clearly been ignored. So CH issued a strike off warning in Jan 2021. That clearly galvinised some activity as it was suspended a couple of weeks later (usually because they promise to be good boys and deliver them "shortly"!). So we are now 9 months further on and still no filings. Not good. So I would expect another to be issued sometime soon depending on the excuse they gave. But a CH striking off does not of itself put the company into insolvency proceedings of one kind or another. For that to happen, either the directors or a creditor will have to file for it. Problem is are there any assets around for a liquidator / administrator to realise to pay their fees let alone any creditor claims? With no accounts we can't tell. Then before the ordinary creditors, like subscribers, get paid out are there any other debts that rank higher in an insolvency like a bank with some form of security? In terms of assets any goodwill in the magazine titles must be slowly disappearing due to the treatment of you guys. Who would want to buy them? Usually what happens is that everyone just walks away because individual creditor claims are not worth pursuing in terms of court fees etc. Everyone will have to make up their own minds what to do. But I know what I would do!

Typical Shoreham class pre-war Note two masts and bulwark along the sides of the quarterdeck, the height of the funnel relative to the top of the bridge and the length of the forward deck from bow to the bridge. Only 7 of 8 built survived the war. Bideford - destored 5/45 & laid up at Milford Haven until scrapped Fowey - to Portsmouth 1/46 for a refit that was cancelled. Sold on civilian market that Oct. Here is her final RN fit https://www.pinterest.cl/pin/292593307041121060/?amp_client_id=CLIENT_ID(_)&mweb_unauth_id=&simplified=true Rochester - disarmed training ship from 7/45 with extra accomodation in place of aft 4" gun but nothing forward of the bridge. https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205159598 Shoreham - operational in Far East and Persian Gulf until 7/46. Then home to pay off and sold 11/46. Dundee - sunk in WW2 Falmouth - operational in Far East & Persian Gulf until 12/46. Then to reserve until rescued in 1952 as an RNVR drillship based at Newcastle. Milford - to reserve in 1946 after serving latterly as a sub target vessel for which she remained armed without any deckhouses, and a tall structure on the aft end of the bridge to carry the Type 271 radar lantern. Also partial bulwark on quarterdeck. Weston - in reserve from 6/45 before scrapping. So Im just not seeing either the opportunity or the layout for the mystery ship to be a Shoreham class I'm afraid.

You are welcome. The Black Swans have been a favourite of mine since I bought a book about British Escort ships as a kid way back in the 1970s. Out of interest what kind of suggestions were being made over on your FB Group? FB is just something I can't get into.

Erne was stripped of her armament in 1952 and became a static RNVR at Southampton. But no extra deckhouses were added and, anyway, she had gained a lattice mast in 1945. Starling joined Redpole as a navigation training ship in 1946. Crucially for me however is that she retained the tall lattice mast she had gained in 1945 in anticipation of her service in the Pacific. Here is a photo of how she appeared in 1946 in that role. By 1957 she had gained yet more superstructure on the quarterdeck and behind the funnel. Wren (on quarterdeck) & Wild Goose (in place of X gun and on the quarterdeck) gained some extra accomodation in 1946 for service in the Persian Gulf but again both had lattice masts and kept most of their armament. Woodcock was another that kept her tripod mainmast postwar but had a short lattice aft supporting her radar like Redpole. But she came home from the Pacific in 1946 and went straight to reserve with no further active service. Their good AA armament made the Black Swans a priority for refitting for the Pacific immediately the war in Europe ended, although not all got there in time. They were then quite active in the postwar period, having been built on traditional naval lines rather than austere emergency basis, up until being sent to reserve mostly in the early-mid 1950s. But that service tended to be in the further flung parts of the world; Far East (think Amethyst up the Yangtse river in 1949), Persian Gulf, South Atlantic, Caribbean etc and they kept their armament. Someone made a suggestion that the mystery photo may have been taken in Malta. I think that unlikely. Photos taken in Malta tend to be from an elevated position in one of the forts looking down on the subject as they entered or left harbour. The mystery photo is taken from close to sea level. I've even thought about it being one of the pre-war or postwar temporary conversions of sloops, frigates or minesweepers to survey ships but cant find anything that fits the bill. Derby Haven or Woodbridge Haven are still the closest that I can get to fitting that mystery photo. Oh and here is Enchantress in her pre-war Admiralty yacht configuration and in her final, partially disarmed (she kept her Oerlikons only), wartime configuration returning home to pay off in March 1946 after a brief service with the British Pacific Fleet. Sorry, I was mistaken about her getting a lattice mast. She was sold for mercantile service in Oct 1946.

The Black Swans were all wartime completions and the photo looks postwar not 1930s. But by 1945 the majority of the class had been refitted with lattice foremasts which, even allowing for the poor photo quality, would appear much thicker than in the photo. Later completions from about 1944 had them from the start. Here is Black Swan herself fresh from refit with her lattice mast heading for the Pacific in 1945. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Black_Swan_(L57)#/media/File%3AHMS_Black_Swan_1945_IWM_FL_2274.jpg The only ships of the class I can immediately think of retaining the tripod were Pheasant (in reserve throughout the post war period until scrapped) and Redpole. The latter was disarmed and acquired a deckhouse in X gun position. BUT cruciallly retained her very prominent after mast structure carrying the Type 277 radar set as here. Even allowing for the poor photo quality, I would expect it to be visible. And that Black Swan tripod just seems too sloped compared to the photo, which still seems to me to be a near vertical pole mast. The only other Black Swan option might be one of the Indian ships with which I’m less familiar because photos are rare. And before anyone asks, Pelican (sole survivor of the Egret class) and Enchantress (sole survivor of the Bittern class) had also gained lattice foremasts by 1945. Pre-war both ships had prominent mainmasts as well.

I doubt it. There is no superstructure forward of the bridge. The mystery photo seems to have at least one level if not two, hiding under that awning. Also the foremast slopes whereas that in the mystery photo seems vertical to me. And the funnel seems too tall relative to the bridge. Here is another photo of Rochester with a clear view of the forward end. https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205159598

Time to put two other candidates in the ring. The pair of Loch class frigates converted while under construction to Coastal Forces Depot Ships. Derby Haven & Woodbridge Haven. As part of that conversion they received additional superstructure on the squid deck, between the bridge and the funnel and on the aft gundeck. They also had a vertical pole foremast but no mainmast. There were detail differences between the two eg armament. And for at least a while Derby Haven carried no side pennant number. https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205161874 https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205121669 https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205120917

Another reason for it not being an interwar sloop of any class is the lack of a mainmast. The foremast is apparent in the photo and, despite the poor quality, I would have expected a mainmast of similar size, as in the inter war sloops, to show up just as well.

Don’t ask me why but the “feel” of the photo is postwar not 1930s. I’d hazard a guess that it is a River class frigate. That is based on the shape of the hull and break in the forecastle. i don’t think it is a Black Swan as the foremast seems vertical, whereas that in the Bittern, Egret and Black Swan classes was angled slightly aft. Also the flare on the bow seems to go right deck edge. In a Black Swan there is small vertical lip at the deck edge in the bow separating the flare from the deck edge. I think I can make out a sponson for a gun mount just aft of the break in the forecastle which again is not a feature of the Sloop classes. To be honest my first reaction was that it was HMS Nith postwar in her configuration as an LSH(S) when she had acquired some extra superstructure. Then I realised there is no after mast present in the photo nor an angled funnel cap. She is the only River I can think of with a sponson in that aft location. She had lost her 4” guns by this stage for more light AA. Waveney and Meon were also converted in similar fashion. Meon also had 2 masts. But I’ve never seen a photo of Waveney. That said the photo quality is awful awful so it could even be a “carrier”!

Comment in “Air Arsenal North America” about RAF procurement of the Buffalo in late 1939 (order placed cDec that year) with my emphasis. “....The main driver for its purchase was the need to provide more modern equipment for the RAF in areas not directly involved in the war; this need could not be met from existing production lines, which were more than fully committed to equipping and supporting front-line units in combat areas.” The RAF assessed both the P-35 and the Buffalo for the role but selected the Buffalo as it was thought Seversky would be too busy fulfilling a Swedish order they had just picked up, while at the same time ignoring rumours of internal management problems at Brewster. So an underestimation of the likely enemy aircraft they would face 2 years later. But how much information was there on the Oscar? (First flight Jan 1939, service entry Oct 1941). How much on the Zero (first flight April 1939, service entry July 1940)? There was some on the latter from China but everyone, British and American, chose to ignore that. There was an air warning system in Malaya. It began to be built up from March 1941, around the same time as the Buffalos began arriving. And it had been successfully used in exercises in Aug/Sept 1941. By 8/12/41 there were 5 operational radar sets (the northernmost one at Mersing on the east coast) of the Chain Overseas type (overseas version of Chain Home) and a system capable of giving Singapore 30 mins notice of an attack coming in. More radars had been planned but priorities were greater elsewhere. GCI was for example due to be installed early spring 1942. But the problems in setting up such a system should not be overlooked when compared to the U.K. The telephone system into which RAF secure lines were plugged in the U.K. was nowhere near so extensive in Malaya necessitating more line laying to get it up and running. Weather interfered with radar signals to a much greater extent. Setting up an Observer Corps also began in 1941 but encountered the problem of locating sites on jungle clad hill tops and telephones again. There is even a story from Burma of reliance on heliographs! And as for the Buffalo squadrons. 2 RAF formed in March 1941 in Singapore from personnel sent from U.K. 2 Australian recently formed that arrived in Aug and only completed their Buffalo outfit in Oct/Nov, and a New Zealand squadron formed in NZ in Sept which arrived in Singapore in Oct and for which the Buffalo was its very first aircraft. Just how many of those pilots were straight out of OTUs? And what tactics were they being taught there? Because what was appropriate against an Me109 was no good against a Japanese fighter with its experienced pilot. So not a very good starting point to take on the IJAAF in Dec 1941.

From FAA Aircraft 1939-1945 TOC 804 Sqn Hatston, tested 25/7/40-9/40; 759 Sqn Yeovilton 7/41. And that is it.

Fleet Air Arm Aircraft 1939 to 1945 lists 27 FAA Buffalos with the RN, 26 of which came from Belgian orders. These were serialled AS412,413,415-427 and AX810-820. The odd machine was BB450. They were used by 759, 760, 804and 885 squadrons in Britain and 805 in the Middle East.

I came across a comment in the old Ducimus publication on the Spitfire that noted that while the AM instruction was dated 30 April, the “Spitfire drawings”, presumably at the factories, weren’t updated until 21 May 1941. Never doubt the ability of bureaucracy to slow things down!!