Milos Gazdic

Can some of French speaking members help me please: What is "Badin"? Found it in Docavia's D.520 book: "Vitesse de décollage: 135 badin (plan fixe calé à +1°)" is it a knot maybe? Sorry for my ignorance.

I guess Graham meant to write: Mermot?

I have never seen an article about "Red Undercarriage" per se. But the information is mentioned in books & articles here & there & scattered web-wide and things were mentioned in many forums & web-wide... just some of them are posted here: Link 01 Link 02 Link 03 Link 04 Link 05 Link 06 Link 07 One thing we know - there is no certain rules in late war Luftwaffe Sadly. ...and it's true that most of the camo was ground concealing but markings had a purpose clearly it that they always had... and bands were used till the end.

Hello Mr Corsair I partially agree. On the other hand we might find some similar example of another D.520 from the period or even find some other materials, arguments and counterarguments that could help those modelers make up a decision in which direction to go to. So far based on this discussion we have quite a few options: _some kind of buff paint (Chamois?) _some kind of blue paint (Gris Bleu Clair?) _completely NMF finish _NMF finish with some sort of Aluminum dope (similar to D.520DC / Fw 190 above?) Am I missing any other option? (I am not taking in the consideration that there is option that one of the airframes had different color on top surfaces compared to undersides)

_Red undercarriage - from my memory was used on ASM machines (AS engine with MW50)? G-6/AS? G-14/AS? Some of the machines that are documented were showing RLM25 band of JG27 _RLM66 undercarriage - at the end of war it seems that many new & refurbished undercarriage legs were painted RLM66 (Me 262, He 162 the most but seems that Bf 109s received some too) _re: wrapped leading edge colors - there seems to be 10 different theories. I personally don't believe that reflection was one of the reasons (after all germany had a very few fully unpainted aircraft at the end of the war and they didn't paint spots like these to reduce reflection. if war was lasting a bit longer we would for sure see more of the NMF a/c from Luftwaffe). _some NightFighter units did use the daylight aircraft but some of NJGr10 were pure nightfighters (and maybe NJGr 11) and they still retained JG300's band although the repainting of the aircraft was done after repurposing. Even few of the dedicated nightfighter aircraft in JG300 still carried the band although with all the radars equipped they were clearly not doing daytime sorties. Would this help with airfield organization and not necessarily the air to air recognition only? _brighter lower cowling could have been RLM76. There is another dark 109 that belonged to JG300 (Green 7) that also had RLM76 cowling (Maybe complete cowling was in standard camo) and yes - I agree with Jochen - there seems to be a stripe on the oil-cooler.

Hello Giampiero! Based on this whole discussion - white in-air D.520 should be a post war machine - correct? Coming back to our "buff" could the finish of the D.520s we are discussing be similar to this one: This is a Flying Heritage A-5 during the restoration process...

I know of this discussion where Jerry has joined with some explanations: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/hyperscale/primer-used-on-luftwaffe-aircraft-specifically-fw--t201275.html but I am not sure if that is the one. For me strange thing is that RLM is non-defined color. So how one can know that the part recovered is painted with RLM 99 if there is no document stating that? Also, if any variation of the color is allowed, what would be the point of having the recognition band that is "unrecognizable" if you use "any color"? or shall those be called decoration bands? (also sometimes I wonder - why did they go into all the trouble of painting and developing "best" camouflages, to go & paint whole cowling in yellow?) Anyhow, this should not turn into 99 discussion. I still strongly believe that discussed aircraft should have bright green, saturated band

I saw that post but no link to original Jerry's post. Would like to hear expert's opinion.

Do you have a link to that Jerry's post about RLM 99 bands? One slightly off-topic question that I questioned myself earlier today when I've read some magazine - if the bands were applied for in-air recognition why would night-fighting (even black painted) aircraft have those bands? (not really related to this aircraft but just wondering. Also, only slightly related to this topic - there were few discussions about the underwing extension of the upper color on Fw 190s both here on BritModeller & over on HS. Last one was in one of Mike's posts about Doras IIRC. My take from few of these discussion was to smoothen the are for better wing's performance, since no other puttying was done on the NMF undersurfaces. Paint was there to cover the "smoothing" putty of the leading edge.

Great machine you have chose for the model @Werdna Looking forward to see the finished model. I believe that considering that fuselage & wings were built separately & assembled only at the later stage one could expect that the rule of wrap around colors on the fuselage should not be followed on the wings. M

Yes. I am happy this opens a possibility for so many other interesting schemes And I think few more strokes with the sanding stick & it would go through. When I point to the light - it's completely transparent.

BIG BIG THANKS to @Graham Boak, @Troy Smith & @MDriskill for help on the subject & especially Graham for encouragement & push to try things out... I just want to report that I have done it From here: to here: I have puttied the inner are of the bulge with the putty since after sanding down it becomes transparent completely! I've used Dremel for initial sanding & then moved to 240 grit stick for hard work & from there to 400 800 1500 2000 for final work. I need to rescribe those little things there but it's almost done Thanks! M PS I have posted the process over on HS:[LINK]

Hello @Giampiero Piva I am not sure if the article in French magazine Aero Journal from 2008 August / September was mentioned before? But there is quite detailed article dealing with Bf 109 H in this issue. Best Milos

After like one and a half hours spent on the net today, trying to find the shop that has the book & that would ship it for less than 30€ I gave up Bookstores where I buy, either don't have a title or the shipping is just way too expensive

Knowing that things travel for a month or so to Shanghai, you might get the magazine before me Graham And I need to bother my wife to translate it for me... not something she really enjoys much And I see I need to make another purchase... again something my wife doesn't enjoy much... I would be better of with a husband I think And once again thanks for clarifications & great image of Nº2's cockpit parts! Best, Milos - ordering that book too as he types this

Hello Kari, Yes, I've mentioned that Dural is in fact Cu + Al alloy already. But I thought it has a certain resistance to corrosion. Obviously I was mistaken. And I guess that explains a need for the dope in case of stripped protection paint. And yes - D.520 is not made of Al-Clad, as you've mentioned. I used to travel to Lebanon for work while I was living in Cyprus and loved it there. I forgot my history but I think it got the independence somewhere in 1942 or 43. Sorry for the ignorance on this subject. But I guess this is the period approximately when these aircraft were there, isn't it? So, no messenger work was given to these machines? I see! That explains it all! Thanks for the clarification! Do you know the date when this flying shot was taken? And do you know how many of the D.520s were painted white in the area? I see. I probably misunderstood the things in that discussion. Would over-spraying Chamois with transparent varnish would help? Such varnish could have been of glossy finish? But were these machines used in liaison / messenger roles? Best, Milos

Hello everyone, I am revisiting old posts dealing with D.520 since I am planning a build of few of 520s myself and would like to collect the updated intel with the latest research. I have ordered few additional (newere) magazines & books but before they arrive I wonder if you would be able to help me with few extra things: I find contradicting info about the cockpits: _Was it painted in Bleu de nuit (midnight blue) from the 1st production machine or was it painted differently in the beginning (Gris bleu)? _Was instrument panel painted with two layers of Bleu de nuit or was it painted Black as some sources state? I saw a set of photos of original D.520 that does show it with more neutral hue on the instrument panel (but I wonder if the reason for this was heavier application of Bleu de Nuit that make it look "darker" creating this effect? For the exterior - Is there any new confirmation that Khaki & Brun were replaced by Vert foncé (dark green) & Terre de Sienne (Sienna) colors? As also mentioned above, in early 1940 it was noticed that fighter aircraft are looking darker than expected (Graham is mentioning this above too) & they wanted to brighten them up? Sienna coloro is of redish hue & brighter than Matt Brown & Vert foncé was supposed to be more saturated & more "real" green than Kakhi. if the letter that BS_w mentions confirms this change - would that mean that aircraft built on a later date would be in these new colors? So many questions from me Forgive me please! Best, Milos

Great build Mish Just wondering if the mask emblem was present on the tail during this period or was applied on the later date during aircrafts life & further "re-decorations"? Best, Milos

In this> THREAD I have stumbled upon this photo: As mentioned by @occa it's a Dewoitine D.520 shot in Algeria. Image coming from amazing Jack Canary's Collection on Flickr Among other things there was a discussion about the use of these aircraft... It was mentioned few times that these (let me call them this way) "buff" Dewoitines were in fact used for messenger services as liaison aircraft. Other members mention they were training aircraft. Armament (at least the openings in the leading edges) are still present. BS_w suggests aluminum dope. I just wonder why would a fully aluminum (dur) aircraft receive a dope? DurAl should be non-corrosive already & fairly dull in look. The aircraft in the sky above Algiers doesn't look very reflective to my aging eyes. I am aware that this is not any of the aircraft we are discussing here but I just wonder if the application could be the same. I also fail to see any walkaways on this Algerian aircraft's leading edges near the wing-roots. Interesting thing is that ruder seems to have no markings. Hope you don't mind me asking the questions already discussed? Milos Added: OR - could it be that this photo predates the photos we are discussing above (D.520s in Algeria were operational in 1941 & early 1942 (according to my very limited knowledge - forgive me for this). Why Lebanon shots apparently date from late (October 1942).

Hello @Segursky May I know which technique was used to print these decals? I would be interested in the post war D.520 ones eventually Also, may I know if the Eduard's zoom photoetch is pre-painted or not? I am really amazed by your amazing build of White 14! Bravo

Hello Troy, Very nice suggestions! I will get the new kit & play with the lower wing part before putting the model together (easier that way) and report soon. Milos

Hello, Yes, as I've spoke with a buddy yesterday, we need a modern day monograph on D.520. One that will gather all the info available in Docavia & modern magazines, with updated research & with some in-depth research on camouflage that often gets ignored in the publications. And when I say modern I don't mean Valiant publishing type of book! I guess LP stands for Lela? If so - I am happy!

Hello @MeneMene Great job! Sorry for reviving the old post but would you mind telling me from which fret did the seatbelts come and were they pre-painted? Best, Milos

I think that Graham & you have made me give it a try And yes - beer does bring job by destruction of it, while destruction of a good new kit brings pain & sorrow.

Aviation Book Shop's shipping to country of my living is way too expensive Only worth on really big orders.