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Churchill

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Posts posted by Churchill

  1. Hi, these three are all by Zvezda in 1/100 scale. The models were made for wargaming, previously I've shaded wargames models quite strongly so that they their best from a distance, but with these I went for slightly softer shading and I think it works. The turret dedications are hand-painted, I know you can get decals but hand painting is actually less bother.

     

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    thanks for looking.

     

     

     

     

     

    • Like 13
  2. 6 minutes ago, Steben said:

    193568029_310703420639835_68346545212120
    This is how it should look like +/-

    If you're correct, then Vallejo are accurate with the early scheme. Vallejo's late scheme is very like the relic linked or posted earlier in this thread, with the pinkish tones in the RAL 8020. Mig Ammo is nowhere close to either scheme. Here's a couple a panzers I airbrushed in the Vallejo yesterday, early on the left, late on the right

     

    Early and late DAK

     

    • Like 1
  3. TRIGGER WARNING

     

    The following post contains images of a distressing nature. Modellers of a nervous disposition are advised to have smelling salts on hand before reading further.

     

    Those who kindly followed my build of two DAK panzer III's will know that I made one in the early camouflage scheme of RAL 7008 on a base of RAL 8000, and the other in the later scheme of RAL 7027 on a base of RAL 8020. Early is on your left, late on your right in this shot:

     

    2021-05-02_06-29-55

     

     

     

    You'll also be aware that I had some issues with the physical properties of the paint brand I was using (Mig Ammo) and so I acquired the four colours in the Model Air range from Vallejo. For comparison purposes, here is a grid showing all eight paints, early on the left, late on the right, Mig on the top row, Vallejo on the bottom. Colours are brush-painted in double layers on plain white unprimed polystyrene and photographed in weak direct sunlight.

     

    DAK grid

     

    For some this will be old news. Others will be shaken to the core.  Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies. Rivers and seas boiling, forty years of darkness. earthquakes, volcanoes, the dead rising from the grave, human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together – mass hysteria. One would expect some variance between manufacturers, even of standardised official colours like those defined by the RAL. But as you can see, these two paint makers, both of whom would doubtless claim to have carefully researched and produced highly authentic colours, have irreconcilably different ideas about what these paints actually looked like. I don't know about you, but my confidence in the accuracy of my models is badly shaken.

     

    For what it's worth, reading around the discussions on various sites and comparisons of relics said to still have their original paint on etc, Vallejo seems to have got it about right with the late scheme. Vallejo is also on the right lines with the early scheme but probably has the base colour rather too dark. Tiger 131 is painted in the early scheme and has that yellowy brown base as more of a mustard yellow. Here's a couple more panzers that I airbrushed yesterday, again the early is on the left, the late on the right:

     

    Early and late DAK

     

    If you have been affected by any of the issues raised in this post, try a stiff drink.

     

     

     

    • Haha 1
  4. I said I'd upload a grid of the two DAK camouflage schemes by the two manufacturers (Mig and Vallejo) once I had all eight paints. Here it is. Not pretty, is it?

     

    DAK grid

     

     

  5. 45 minutes ago, JackG said:

     

    Tamya's LP-76 was considered best match to Chory, but oddest thing is that Tamiya markets this as their version for RAL 8000:

     

    That Chory's chip 7027 also looks fairly close to Mig 8000 I've found that Vallejo's RAL 7027 is near identical to Mig's RAL 7008, they could certainly be used interchangeably. Neither version is much like the RAL 8000 I have though.

    Some variation between manufacturers is to be expected, but I'm astonished and puzzled at how radically different their versions of an official, at some point formally defined, paint colour can be - and that's why I started this thread. 

    I have Model Air RAL 7008 and 8000 on order, when they arrive I'll put up a grid showing the two manufacturer's versions of the two original schemes.

  6. 9 hours ago, Steben said:

     

    If you need reference for 8000 and 7008 look at the modern 8000 and 7008. Tiger 131 will suffice ;).
     

    I expect you're right, but I'll have to wait until I can get back down to Bovington. On the Tank Chats videos Tiger 131 tends to look almost dunkelgelb on my screen, but on videos shot outdoors when they're running it it looks a bit more like the Mig RAL8000/7008, albeit still a little lighter and yellower :shrug:

  7. 33 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

     In any case, when making a comparison between a paint and a photograph,or the real thing and a paint colour, the effect of ageing would be the same on both and would not effect judgement of such things.

    To a certain extent, yes. There's a story about an artist who painted human figures very tall and slender. An art historian wrote a paper suggesting that this was evidence that the artist had developed an eye condition that causes vision to be distorted in one direction. The flaw in that theory will be obvious to you!

    However, impaired perception doesn't always work quite that way. If certain wavelengths are being filtered out by your eyes, then two swatches might appear the same to you but quite different to someone who is able to see that those wavelengths are present in one swatch but not the other.

    • Like 1
  8. I noticed that the fender relic posted by @JackG above looks quite a lot like the RAL8000/RAL7008 tank in my post following it, so out of curiosity I made a comparison of Vallejo's RAL8020 and Mig's RAL8000. This time I painted them on white polystyrene sheet and photographed them in indirect sunlight. You can see that the 8000 is definitely greyer than the 8020 which has more orangey brown in it, but I'd say the fender is somewhere between the two in colour and a little lighter than either:

     

    2021-05-26_10-12-27

     

    I have a stock of dropper bottles, so perhaps I'll mix up a custom shade for future DAK builds (I have a Tiger and a PzIV to do).

     

  9. @JackG Wow, that comparison shot of the eight versions really tells the story. Mig's version is very like the AK, the lightest and yellowest while Vallejo is the darkest. But the takeaway from that shot for me is that there is no consensus whatsoever among the manufacturers about what this colour looks like. 

    Yes, the paper that I'd photographed is white and the phone camera's program may have darkened the shot to 18% grey overall, and paint can be a little darker on paper than on a less permeable surface, so my Vallejo paint is probably a little lighter than it looks on screen, but so is the Mig. When I first sprayed the Mig on a very light gray primer (Tamiya fine surface) it came out looking like vanilla icecream, a most unmilitary shade which wasn't aesthetically acceptable until I'd filtered it with a wash and weathered it - it's the right-hand tank in this shot that's supposed to be RAL 8020 with RAL 7027 and it's even brighter in the flesh (the left hand tank is the earlier scheme RAL 8000 with RAL 7008, and all four shades are Mig. The models are 1/100)

     

    2021-05-02_06-29-55

     

     

  10. The Mig is labelled RAL 8020 Gelbbraun MIG 0016.

     

    The Vallejo is labelled BRAUN RAL 8020 71.117 CAM BROWN.

     

    So I don't think either one is a highlight or a shadow shade. And it's hard to see that such a big difference could be accounted for by the manufacturer allowing for scale effect.

     

    The colour of the Vallejo RAL8020 is indeed very close to the Mig RAL8000 which I also have. I did wonder if they'd got mixed up somewhere along the way, but surely that would have been picked up and corrected very quickly?

     

     

  11. Hi, hope the collective wisdom of BM can help here. I recently started painting a number of small scale Afrika Korps armoured vehicles. I've used Mig Ammo paints and done vehicles in the pre-1942 colours of RAL7008 on RAL8000, and the 1942 colours of RAL7027 on RAL8020.

     

    But I had some issues with the consistency of the Mig Ammo paints (my local model shop stocks only Mig and Tamiya) and thought I'd give Vallejo Model Air a go. So I ordered just one bottle of Model Air, the RAL8020.

     

    The problem is, the colour is very, very different from the Mig. Just to be clear, both bottles are actually labelled RAL 8020, I didn't get a closest match off a conversion chart or anything. The Mig is definitely yellow, it's a close match for artist's yellow ochre paint lightened with white. A thin coat on pale primer would be quite close to vanilla icecream. The Vallejo on the other hand, is definitely a brown, very close to a typical hot chocolate.

     

    I know that my camera and your screens can't accurately reproduce what I'm seeing, but this picture does show how different they are;

     

    RAL8020?!

     

    So can anyone tell me what's going on here? I'm fairly new to researching and modelling this period and any advice gratefully received. I'm not bothered about absolute colour accuracy, not least because I know that desert conditions will really change any paint on the real world vehicle but these two colours are so different that I'm left very puzzled about what my models should look like.

     

  12. I like that a lot. The colour palette and the overall feel is very good, there's some nice details adding atmosphere, a bit of humour with the NPC. The only issue visible in the pictures is the quoins being split at the corner but I expect you knew that. I hope you use it for gaming, I think it would really being a lot to any table.

    • Thanks 1
  13. Not strictly speaking a diorame, but thought this might be of interest, some generic north African buildings I made for the purposes of gaming. Everything is made from card or from the sort of hardboard used for backing picture frames, which I've found is quite easily carved, sanded, drilled and shaped. Cardboard is also more easily shaped if impregnated with liquid superglue I've found. Paints are all cheap artist's acrylics from The Range. All scratchbuilt, no aftermarket parts.

     

    A small mosque or suchlike:

     

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    and from the other side:

     

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    Building with double barrel-vaulted roof:

     

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    A small dwelling with olive tree:

     

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    This was my first attempt. Still fairly happy with it, although the frame holding up the awning is overscale:

     

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    Lastly, a shot to give an idea of the scale. The desert baseboard rolls up, could be a useful idea for anyone who takes models to shows and competitions to display. It's made from an old vinyl tablecloth. The fabric side is covered with a very thinly laid paste, made of decorator's caulk, acrylic paints, and sand, and then washed with a thin dark brown wash and drybrushed with a highlight colour. If you make one of these, use an acrylic caulk that's marketed as extra-flexible. Also remember that although it's white, it has very little white pigment in it and a small amount of paint will have a big effect on the colour. I found that one and a half of the tubes that go in a sort of syringe gun was enough for a 3'x3' board. I wasn't sure it would really roll up without cracking or delaminating but it does.

     

    DSC_0904

     

     

     

     

    • Like 8
  14. I'm putting together a few units for a small, armour only, skirmish based, wargame. These two are both panzer III's, one a Zvezda model in the pre '42 DAK colours of RAL8000/7008, the other a Battleforce model in the post '42 colours of RAL8020/7027. They're both relatively OOB, I've added a commander figure to one, a bit of stowage, replaced the hull MG on the Battlefront model as it was scale model of a prize-winning marrow, and added an air recognition flag which was freehand painted on a bit of tissue paper.

     

    Paints were mostly Mig Ammo and TBH I had a lot of difficulty with them, particularly with them not wetting or adhering even to Mig primer or other Mig paints, I shaded them fairly strongly to improve the appearance when used on a gaming table at three or four feet, but I'm also pleased with some of the fine detail and chipping effects which wouldn't be visible at that range. 

     

    Build thread for the PzIII STGB is here.

     

    51183169168_4d78a5f6c3_h.jpg2021-05-16_06-05-16 by Rob Churchill, on Flickr

     

    51182964469_c7ecebeda7_k.jpg_20210516_084613 by Rob Churchill, on Flickr

     

    51181755524_c7345de1aa_k.jpg_20210515_190214 by Rob Churchill, on Flickr

     

    51180964016_94dee93e7d_k.jpg_20210515_194443 by Rob Churchill, on Flickr

     

    51181182073_79046b0b66_k.jpg_20210515_194246 by Rob Churchill, on Flickr

     

    51182396043_6320f31325_k.jpg_20210515_233837 by Rob Churchill, on Flickr

    • Like 13
  15. A pair of 1/100 Panzer III's in Africa.

     

    These have been made for wargaming, so intended to look their best at three or four feet away rather than at close inspection, much less under macro. We have one in the pre '42 colours and another in the '42 onward colours.  Build thread is here . The generic north African buildings in the background are scratchbuilt - perhaps I should have gone in the Africa GB? :wink:

     

    Many thanks for looking, and thanks to Mr @PlaStix for running the GB. 

     

    51180964016_94dee93e7d_k.jpg_20210515_194443 by Rob Churchill, on Flickr

     

     

    51181755439_d8b4291973_k.jpg_20210515_192558 by Rob Churchill, on Flickr

     

     

    51182054390_d85dace8f3_k.jpg_20210515_192529 by Rob Churchill, on Flickr

     

     

    51181755524_c7345de1aa_k.jpg_20210515_190214 by Rob Churchill, on Flickr

     

     

    51181182073_79046b0b66_k.jpg_20210515_194246 by Rob Churchill, on Flickr

    • Like 12
  16. Spraying varnish slightly took off the weathering powder effects as I'd kind of expected, especially over the engine compartment of the short-barreled panzer which looked quite good in the first photo of my last post. But I'm not too bothered, and I'm calling these two done. Now, PzIV, Tiger, Churchill, or something else for the next build?

     

    51180964016_94dee93e7d_k.jpg_20210515_194443 by Rob Churchill, on Flickr

     

     

    51181755439_d8b4291973_k.jpg_20210515_192558 by Rob Churchill, on Flickr

     

     

    51182054390_d85dace8f3_k.jpg_20210515_192529 by Rob Churchill, on Flickr

     

     

    51181755524_c7345de1aa_k.jpg_20210515_190214 by Rob Churchill, on Flickr

     

     

    51181182073_79046b0b66_k.jpg_20210515_194246 by Rob Churchill, on Flickr

     

    Thanks for looking, and for your kind words of appreciation during the build.

    • Like 4
  17. 20 minutes ago, PlaStix said:

    Well the tanks look great but I'm sorry you are have so many issues. Hope you manage to get something sorted.

    Kind regards,

    Stix

    Thanks Mr @PlaStix. Issues all manageable, although I'll think I'll try some other paint brands for my next build. The tanks are done, and I'm just getting some photos for the gallery right now.

  18. Progress, and paint woes.

     

    Nearly finished now. I've painted the tracks, added a little chipping here and there, painted the details like the tools and stowage, and added some desert dust to the tracks, running gear, and some horizontal surfaces using weathering powders. These should be finished tonight:

     

    51178882826_38306d5321_k.jpgNearly there... by Rob Churchill, on Flickr

     

    And now the woes.

     

    Woe 1) Painting the tools with a mix of Mig Ammo dunkelgrau and matt black, I quickly found that the paint wasn't adhering well. I flipped over the tank and painted a few broad brushstrokes on the lower surface to see what was happening. The paint was the worst yet for non-adherence. Take a look:

     

    51172882718_d13eb98fb3_h.jpg2021-05-11_07-10-28 by Rob Churchill, on Flickr

     

    Here the paint has pulled away from the surface completely, leaving most of the brushstroke bare of any trace of paint. 

     

    Now Mr @Corsairfoxfouruncle has kindly suggested that I leave the paint to dry and thicken up for a bit before using it, but that isn't a solution for the way I work. I do leave paint to partially dry before using when I'm drybrushing, as I find that works better. But for most painting I want to dilute the paint a bit before using it, as this produces a much better surface with no brush marks, and I often use dilute paint to build up colour layers for gradual shading, for glazes, and for washes. If paint won't stick to a surface even undiluted, then clearly I can't use it for layering/glazing/washing and it's no good to me.

     

    Woe 2) this paint is really soft and fragile. I know I'll need to varnish the models so that they can be handled, but unvarnished paint should stand up to the very delicate handling necessary while the model is being built. I found that I had to do a lot of touching up where my fingers had removed paint from prominent edges right down to the primer. 

     

    Woe 3) I've only used weathering powder once before, when I found that they make a good rust effect when dusted into Citadel Lahmann medium (intended for making washes). On these models I wanted to use them to produce the effect of desert dust all over the tracks and wheels. So I watched one of Humbrol's youtube videos on how to use their powders. Humbrol suggest using Decalfix as a diluent for the powders instead of plain water, as once dried the powders will be semi-fixed but can be reactivated and manipulated with a wet brush. 

     

    I should have expected this, but Decalfix strips Mig Ammo acrylics. Fortunately I saw what was happening before I did too much damage.

     

    Woe 4) Can't blame Mig Jimenez for this one. I wanted to put a wash of sepia on the tracks after applying the base colour (a mix of mid-grey and chocolate brown). I put a few drops of Vallejo sepia wash on my palette, sploshed it gaily over the tracks and got a surprising amount of the tracks covered before thinking; 'hmm, this sepia wash looks a little dark'. Somehow I'd picked up a bottle of Mig matt black by mistake. Fortunately for me, as we've seen, my Mig matt black doesn't exactly stick :shrug:.

     

    Should've gone to Specsavers. 

     

    I just need to do the exhaust cans, stick Leutnant von Schermannknäckerer in his cupola, apply an overall coat of matt varnish, touch up a little here and there, and add an air recognition flag to the long-barreled PzIII which I've freehand painted on tissue paper. Then they can head off to the Gallery.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    • Like 1
  19. Seeking the wisdom of more experienced modellers here:

     

    On the subject of paint, I am becoming increasingly disappointed with and frustrated by the Mig Ammo paints I've been using. I've acquired about twenty bottles over the last couple of builds and I find that many of them have a serious problem with very poor 'wetability'. I'm not sure if it's the paint I'm applying, or the paint I'm applying it to, but it acts like I'm trying to paint it over a layer of silicone polish. It just pulls together under its own surface tension and beads up, sometimes leaving no trace that it was ever on the parts of the surface it's just pulled away from. I know this can happen when painting bare plastic, and I know it can happen when the model has been handled too much and there's oils from your skin on the paint surface. But this happens even when putting a Mig Ammo paint on a fresh surface of Mig Ammo primer. In the worst cases, it renders the paint effectively unusable. The problem occurs no matter how carefully the paint has been stirred (I'll pull the spouts off the dropper bottles and get in there with a mixing rod) and regardless of whether the paint is diluted with water, acrylic thinners, or used straight from the bottle. 

     

    Here's undiluted Mig 122 'bone' painted on a fresh layer of Mig one-shot grey primer:

     

    51165928921_cc3c9e983b_c.jpg2021-05-08_08-23-32 by Rob Churchill, on Flickr

     

    That's not by any means the worst, at least here the paint has kept up to the outline of the brush-stokes instead of beading up completely. If anyone has any suggestions, I'd appreciate it. My local model shop sells only Mig and Tamiya and I feel like chucking all my Mig in the bin and replacing it with Tamiya. 

  20. Today, I have mostly been painting... tyres. 

     

    Here are the ones on the BF panzer, I've painted the blocked in tyres about half-way back to the hull to help give the impression that they're the correct depth:

     

    51167800323_abe606c78f_k.jpgTyres by Rob Churchill, on Flickr

     

    I like Citadel's 'Charadon Granite' for this, it's a nice dirty dark grey. While I'm on the subject of paint, I am becoming increasingly disappointed with and frustrated by the Mig Ammo paints I've been using. I've acquired about twenty bottles over the last couple of builds and I find that many of them have a serious problem with very poor 'wetability'. I'm not sure if it's the paint I'm applying, or the paint I'm applying it to, but it acts like I'm trying to paint it over a layer of silicone polish. It just pulls together under its own surface tension and beads up, sometimes leaving no trace that it was ever on the parts of the surface it's just pulled away from. I know this can happen when painting bare plastic, and I know it can happen when the model has been handled too much and there's oils from your skin on the paint surface. But this happens even when putting a Mig Ammo paint on a fresh surface of Mig Ammo primer. In the worst cases, it renders the paint effectively unusable. The problem occurs no matter how carefully the paint has been stirred (I'll pull the spouts off the dropper bottles and get in there with a mixing rod) and regardless of whether the paint is diluted with water, acrylic thinners, or used straight from the bottle. 

     

    Here's Mig 122 'bone' painted on a fresh layer of Mig one-shot grey primer:

     

    51165928921_cc3c9e983b_c.jpg2021-05-08_08-23-32 by Rob Churchill, on Flickr

     

    That's not by any means the worst, at least the paint has kept up to the outline of the brush-stokes instead of beading up completely. If anyone has any suggestions, I'd appreciate it. My local model shop sells only Mig and Tamiya and I feel like chucking all the Mig in the bin and replacing it with Tamiya. 

     

    Will post this on the GB chat.

     

     

  21. Freehand painted the turret numbers (15th panzer division - cos they're easiest! only the company number, and no white outline). Freehand painted DAK palm tree symbols front and back (kind of impressionistic at this scale) and added balkankreuz decals to the side armour.

    • Like 1
  22. Busy day today, but found a little time to tidy up the washes a little and do a light dry-brushing.

     

    These little models need so few man-hours compared to the other entries in the GB, but it is still possible to stall the build, so I think it's a good idea to do at least a few minutes every day if possible. My oldest will be home over the weekend and will want his room back, so a few days' break will be forced on me.

     

    Dry brushed

     

    Thanks for looking.

    • Like 3
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