rossm
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Posts posted by rossm
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There is a photo of V8388 coded 6 Y in both Red Kite Beaufighter Squadrons and Wingleader Photo Archive 10. It appears to be in standard nightfighter overall Medium Sea Grey with Dark Green disruptive pattern on the upper surfaces. What colour the code letters are is debatable but they "should" be Dull Red. It has AI Mk.IV rather than the thimble radome.
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48 minutes ago, e8n2 said:
Just off the top of my head, I would say it was more likely that the tail AFT of the stab and elevator was extended to house some of the gear for the new tail turret. Just seems to me that that would have been the easiest thing to do.
Later,
Dave
You would think so but they had to make the rear fuselage deeper so were making structural changes anyway and the numbers don't show any increase in length other than the nose extension. Putting a heavy turret even further aft would have upset the CofG so not desirable. The puzzle to me is that no other sources mention it. I wonder if correcting the CofG was the reason for the nose extension???
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James Oughton's book on the Liberator in RAF and Commonwealth Service (Air Britain) gives the Liberator I length as 63ft 8.5in and the Liberator II as 66ft 0in. The Aerodata mongraph says the nose extension was 31in. Given the tail turret sticks out where the Liberator I gun position did not it seems the tailplane must have moved forward - but neither of these references nor the Crowood book on the type mention that happening.
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No.48 was not a GR squadron until September 1938, according to the Air Britain K File it "reformed on 25th Nov 1935 but was not an operational unit as it formed the basis of the School of Air Navigation. Ansons began to arrive in quantitiy in March 1936 and the squadron grew to have an establishment of no less than 80 during 1936. It continued its training role until September 1938 nwhen it was reduced to more normal size and became an operational GR squadron."
There is a photo of Anson K6164 of 48 Squadron with just a single letter code of X. It left 48 Sqdn in January 1938 and another of K6323 with single letter Y of 48 Sqdn which left it in March 1938.
I'll stick my neck out and suggest the 48 squdron code was not applied as the Munich camouflage came in about the time the squadron moved to an operational role. There are other photos in the Warpaint, none with a 48 code, just single letters.
I'll check the Air Britain Anson File when I can get SWMBO to move her clutter from in front of the shelf it's on 😊
A recently published reference I don't have is Avro Anson Mark I in Worldwide Service - Wingleader Photo Archive 25
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Also a 10 page article in Air Enthusiast 10 (July-Sept 1979). I can scan it, just PM me an email address...
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There is an 11 page article in Air Enthusiast no6 including individual aircraft summary histories. PM me if you would like a scan.
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1 hour ago, PatG said:
Remember that alternating serial numbers (in theory) had the 'A' and then the 'B' camouflage pattern applied in the factory but there are many examples where this seems not to have ben followed but it would make a nice detail.
Xtradecal do MSG codes (OK, quite generic but still very useful) and Ventura do a sheet for 8" serial numbers/letters so armed with these you can pretty well do any aircraft, apart from those with any personal insignia or markings.
Pat.
Ps. the Ventura decal sheet, V7252 is currently out of stock with Hannants but you may be able to find it elsewhere.
The Xtradecal sheet for postwar serials can also be used for many wartime aircraft https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/X72157
The code sheet Pat refers to is https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/X72145
Kits World also offer sheets combining 8" serials with 28" codes (72154) or with 24" codes (72155) again available from Hannants - these would be a solution if you chose a squadron with that size code (see below)
The "Camouflage and Markings" booklet for the Spitfire can be found at https://boxartden.com/reference/gallery/index.php/Camouflage-Markings/Supermarine-Spitfire It needs careful reading, especiall for code letter sizes which seem to have varied on early Spitfires as the regulation stated 48" high or smaller if room was not available, As 48" was too big for a Spitfire squadrons were left to make their own interpretation so 24", 28", 30" and 36" are possible.
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There are books where you can find serial number and code letter combinations for many squadrons e.g. Fighter Squadrons of the RAF by JDR Rawlings but sadly out of print at the moment. The best place is the squadron Operations Record Books at the National archives which are available online and free if you sign up for an account which is also free. Not all units recorded both but many did and that way you guarantee the aircraft you choose were with the squadron on the same day.
For colour scheme and markings the "Camouflage and Markings" series is a good start and can be found online at boxartden. I don't have the Spitfire volumes but I think the Wingleader Photo Archive series is a good source aimed at modellers.
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2 hours ago, GiampieroSilvestri said:
According the Famous Russian aircraft book about the Mig-19 by Yefim Gordon and Dmitry Komissarov on page 188 it is Shenyang J-6I developpement aircraft.The fuselage from the cockpit onwards was redesigned being longer and larger.The nose cone was a added to improve the engine's operating condition and aerodynamic of the aircraft.It did not have a radar.
Saluti
Giampiero
So the colour scheme is probably not representative of Chinese AF aircraft.
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1 minute ago, Luka said:
I did find a colour photo of a J-6 in the three-tone green scheme at the Datangshan museum, although I'm usually very suspicious about museum paintjobs. But it's the closest I could find.
I'm not entirely convinced by the MiG-21 intake cone fitted to it!
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Nothing in the Air Britain book by Oughton either.
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7 hours ago, Troy Smith said:
Are you aware of this book?
https://www.hyperscale.com/2016/reviews/books/japoliberatorbookreviewfw_1.htm
Not one I have, and now OOP, you could contact the publisher?
Not one I have either but the Wingleader book is by the same author, contains a lot of detail and is both cheaper and available although it may not have room for all the information in the JaPo book. No photos of the desired aircraft in it though.
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4 minutes ago, 72modeler said:
Peter,
All I could find was this photo of AM923, a sister ship to your AM925. Although not your Liberator, it should at least help you with fit and color scheme; note the 20mm gun pack under the fuselage. Sorry I couldn't be of more help! Because of the sensitive nature of the radar fit, there might not have been very many photos, if any, allowed.
Mike
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=692997227492535&set=pcb.692997334159191
The new Wingleader photo archive book confirms AM923 had the same radar and cannon fitted as AM925 but no photos of the latter.
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Seems like you haven't seen the books by @Nick Millman published by Osprey??? A6M aces, Ki61 & Ki100 aces, Ki44 aces, Ki27 aces e.g. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ki-61-Ki-100-Aces-Aircraft/dp/1780962959
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3 hours ago, J.C. Bahr said:
Would sure be nice to know more certain specifics about the NVAF Mig-19 colors... as I recall in the Squadron Book "And Kill Migs," one of the U.S. pilots reported seeing an "aquamarine blue/green" one on one of their ops. Makes one wonder if this was one of the standard Eastern Bloc underside blues that was carried up onto the top surfaces also?
I'd be careful about pilots reports, they are probably mostly based on fleeting views while their attention was focused on staying alive. They will give an impression but the number of "friendly" fire incidents does not give confidence in their powers of observation in stressful circumstances.
The Osprey book on Vietnamese MiG-17/19 aces and the one on MiG-21 aces are based on years of research and access to North Vietnamese archives and while they are not specifically aimed at modellers they do aim for accurate information as far as possible at this distance in time.
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A similar profile but with 3 shades of green on top and silver (?) undersides is in the Osprey book Aircraft of the aces 130 - MiG-17/19 Aces of the Vietnam War.
The caption states this aircraft was supplied in April 1974 as one of 24 combat attririon replacements and operated in it's original Chinese camouflage. No photo though.
In the earlier Osprey Combat Aircraft 25 - MiG-17 and 19 units of the Vietnam War - it appears in the green/silver scheme in the post above but again no photo.
I'd go with the later book and the 3 green upper surface scheme if I was building it.
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I have OAO72009 but I need to make some approximate copies of the the pylons for a WHIF so give me a few days then it can be yours. I should have some overwing pylons from a Matchbox kit if they would help.
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I've found some drawings in the Putnam Vickers Aircraft book and it looks as if the Vildebeest top wing is similar but 1 ft more span. The fin and rudder look similar and maybe the aft end of the fuselage. The rest looks like major surgery or scratchbuilding.
The Hobby Den in Kildare put a post on Facebook some years back seeking interest in a resin kit but I don't think anything came of it - http://www.thehobbyden.com/
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PM me an email address and I can send you some information.
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3 minutes ago, leyreynolds said:
The Hampden seems to have fewer references than other Bomber Command types.
Yes but there's the following that I know of:-
The Hampden File - Author: Harry Moyle; Publisher: Air Britain
Warpaint Series No. 57 - Publisher: Hall-Park Books
Hampden Squadrons in Focus - Author: Mark Postlethwaite; Publisher: Red Kite
Aviation News Vol.06 No.9 (plans)
Hampden Special - Author: Chaz Bowyer; Publisher: Ian Allan 1976
Aircraft Profile 58
Forgotten Bombers of the RAF - Author: K.Wixey; Publisher: Arms and Armour 1997
Air International Vol.1 no.4 (Viewed from the Cockpit)
Air International Vol.27 p.244 (Warbirds)
Scale Models Sept.1986 (plans & article)
Air Enthusiast no.14 (feature)
Scale Aircraft Modelling Vol.9 p.198 (Aircraft in Detail)
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4 minutes ago, Paul Lucas said:
The official scheme was supposed to be Extra Dark Sea Grey on the upper surfaces with Sky on the under surfaces.
I think this came in around February/March 1943 as a labour/time/material saving compared to the previous TSS? The RAF Museum book gives AMO A.1096/42 issued on 8th Oct 1942 with references to Hampdens which I think I've interpreted correctly on my page http://hrmtech.com/SIG/coastal_cam.asp to say:-
"....amended by the addition of the Hampden TB - Beaufort, long range Beaufighter, Blenheim, Hudson & Hampden TB to have Temperate Sea Scheme uppersurfaces (Extra Dark Sea Grey and Dark Slate Grey) with Sky undersurfaces. "Remarks" now states that Beauforts & Hampden TB have Night undersurfaces, Hudsons may also have Night undersurfaces."
The reference to the Hudson seems to be an error as it was added to the group with White undersides by the same AMO but not removed from this group - an administrative oversight presumably.
How many Hampdens would have been repainted in the single colour upper surfaces before they went out of service as torpedo bombers from January 1943 with the last squdron re-equipping in December 1943? I don't know but probably not many would be my guess.
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There's this
I think the EDSG/White scheme was only used on the Hampden in the Met role. As a torpedo bomber it was usually in TSS with the exception noted above.
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There are short histories in the books which cover all the squadrons of the RAF, only one photo showing Hurricanes and that is so vague that it could be any Hurricane anywhere.
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I've been through 4 books on the Sunderland and all the wartime MkVs have C1 fuselage roundels including one assumed to have just been delivered to 230 Sqdn which would date it to February or March 1945.
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Miles Hawk/Hawk Trainer/Magister Wings.
in Classic - up to 1968
Posted · Edited by rossm
Corrected 33ft span version.
There is nothing in the Air Britain Miles Aircraft - The Early Years book by Peter Amos to support G-ADWT having different wings from other M.2W or M.2Y aircraft. Compared with the earlier M.2F the span increased from 33ft to 34ft but that was standard for the version. The Magister span was 33ft 10in.
I've only looked into it for this reply but I think great care needs to be taken with all the different M.2 versions as there were many.