Tsrjoe

... in answer to the question first posited, yip it should and would have been but according to released files at the PRO./TNA. the outgoing goverment at the time decided to defer the decision so as to gain maximum political gain for political reasons knowing full well the fallout the decision would cause ... it would have been cancelled sooner and was reccomended same its place being taken by a simpler design At the time of cancellation the programme was more than 3x beyond its original estimates, indeed just 2 weeks before the final decision was taken BAC. were asked by HMG. as a 'last ditch saving the programme measure' for a fixed price quote for just 15 airframes (the amount under construction at that time) even after numerious requests BAC. stil refused to state a completion price (this was not intended to have been taken as an absolute but as a guide!) knowing full well the programme was under threat this can be seen in hindsight as incompetence in the extreme. The TSR.2 programme was being run from the Weybridge office which i have been told by persons at Warton at the time were unconcerned re cancellation as orders for civillian VC.10 aircraft had been 'promised' (without BOAC. consultation and knowledge!) again the rivalry between the two causing a number of delays in itself By the time the cancellation decision had been made public the RAF. were already looking beyond toward the F.111, the main loss being the UK. aviation industry, but seemingly yet again its own worst enemy! Again in hindsight the aircraft was unsuitable for the environ in whch it would have found itself by the time it would have entered service. the UK. was no longer a 'world power' and pulling back from its bases across the globe ('east of Suez') as a cost rationalisation measure to concentrate more on a NATO. role, to which the later multi national Tornado would prove well suited

many thanks, cheers, joe

a nice looking model Marcel , the morko makes for a nice variation from the standard Morane too cheers, joe

looks really neat, different for sure too, theres some other 'jet spit' builds over on the 'what if' modellers site too ... http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/to...t+spitfire.html cheers, joe

hiyas chaps, many thanks, yip definately problems trying to find one thats avaliable, iv actually been looking for over a year now, and past few times when over in Finland tried the excellent hobby store in Helsinki but alas none in stock (thats where i picked up the very basic 'Maquette' kit tho) definately interesting Kari, just a thought, dont suppose you know if the guy from 'Moonshine' would make another one?? kiitos, Joe

does anyone out there in Britmodeller land know where i could get a hold of a 1/72 scale conversion set for the Finnish VL. Morko Morane to build for my Ilmavoimat WW.2 type collection? from online searches i have found a couple of resin conversions, a nose unit from 'Moonshine models' and a fuselage conversion from 'PH model' both of which i cant seem to find avaliable I have the 'Maquette' kit with its revised fusealge mouldings, but this would require quite extensive work to make into something presentable, it being based upon the old 'Frog' moulds, nice decals tho! my intention being to utilise the recent'ish 'Hasegawa' kit for the conversion to sit alongside a pair of 'normal' examples, one in delivery scheme, the other in Finnish repaint, the Morko i would complete in 'Lapland War, cockades completing the types history in Ilmavoimat service many thanks, Joe oops just realised iv posted this on the wrong thread, my sincerest apologies to the moderators

as far as i have been able to acertain, the images i passed along for Tony to use in BSP. show the 2 F.111K airframes at maximum build, ie there was no actual rollout, the aircraft from this stage were unfinished and put in quarantine not to be used for spares recovery til authorised i have compiled a chronology of the aircraft from initial order til spares breaking which shows the first aircraft was approx 2-3 months from completion at order cease, the aircraft was intended to be camouflaged prior to delivery (probably similar to the MDD. F.4M's for the RAF.) cheers, joe

ooh have you a copy of the image showing the aircraft painted up as a demonstrator? iv not seen that one other than some retouched images cheers, joe

the ladders were made of aluminium alloy, as per examples in the images posted, theres a set at Cosford plus one at Duxford, the Cossie examples being silver painted (over original medium blue) whilst the one at Duxford being painted a light blue shade. in some ways they look similar to those for the Jaguar abiet longer in length? cheers, Joe

in my modelmaking workshop here in Glasgow i have an A4 sized vacuform table unit as well as a 600x500 size bed high pressure one, id be happy to mould up a batch for the cost of the styrene, what are your masters made of? wood? resin? cheers, joe

there were definately a few of the Hurricanes supplied with fabric outer wings fitted, theres not too much in the references tho as to which ones and when they were swapped with metal as attrition avaliability allowed. A Finnish colleague has compiled a cross reference as to serial and wing type re the aircraft as delivered, ill check and see what i can get posted on here! One snippet tho is if the inboard fabric panel at the wing root was stil there or reskinned in metal by Gloster when refurbishing the aircraft? (my thinking is the area would have been reskinned) another is that the Finn's did look at possibly reskinning the fabric examples themselves but due to the avaliability of metal wings from damaged or undergoing servicing examples there was no need to proceed! cheers, Joe PS. HC-452 definately has the standard metal wing fitted, altho as mentioned above, the inboard panel which may have been fabric covered on the original airframe as delivered to the RAF. does appear to be attatched using a different technique to that of the other skins? again possibly a sign of the Gloster refurbishment?

so thinking between the 1/48 Heritage resin and an Academy/Airwaves build...any thoughts as to what would be the better route? cheers, Joe

a really nice model there 'stiner' definately looks good, did you use the 'Airwaves' conversion or make your own parts for the canopy and pressure intake, bulges etc. ? cheers, Joe

a colleague asked me to post this on their behalf, does anyone make a kit of the Spitfire PR.19 in 1/48 scale? and what are the best options to realise a model of the type in this scale? (eg Heritage resin, Airwaves conversion? etc) cheers, Joe

iv posted some artwork scans of Finnish Roc's over on another forum, the black and white drawing comes from the source refwerenced in my previous post http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/to....html#msg327031 cheers, joe

many thanks Tony, much appreciated and ideal reference for 'fixing' the kit cheers, Joe

yip ill be there too with some work colleagues, always a good day out apart from the weather, traffic, crouds, positioning of barriers, ... cheers, Joe

Hiyas Nick (et all) cool, iv not seen the close up image mentioned any chance of a scan?, typical, the Mushroom book is the only one iv not picked up as yet from the ones prev mentioned, a Finnish magazine, Suomen UIlmailuhistoriallinen Lehti, 1/2000 carried a feature on the Roc again showing the 4 aircraft sitting at a rear 3/4 angle, the airframes visible being RO-141, 143 and 147 (the lower demarcation aircrafts serial is obscured by the other airframe) The article also includes sime really nice drawings by Pentti Manninen, the colour scheme notes for which also mention 'steel colour' cowling flaps, again seemingly quite common on the Roc ? cheers, Joe

from the published image usually shown, there appears to be two differing colour schemes carried by Finnish Blackburn Roc in the photograph taken of the aircraft awaiting delivery at Dyce, Aberdeen. Current information possibly suggests the type was delivered to British service in both 'naval' (sky grey, extra dark sea grey, dark slate grey? with a high demarcation) and 'air force' (green, earth, sky? with a low demarcation) colour schemes, altho further information is needed for confirmation as to if thats whats seen in the oft reproduced photograph. One snippet noted in a late 1950's early 1960's 'Airfix Magazine' letters page from a person who was at Dyce in 1940 notes that the aircrafts markings were covered over by pasted on paper sheet through which the Finnish markings could be seen (i will endevor to dig out the original source issue of the magazine!) Regarding the Blue 'Von Rosen' crosses, I have read elsewhere that the markings were variously painted over with washable paint, not applied at all or paper covered depending on the delivery factory concerned, no doubt all being applicable as a file in the UK. National Archives mentions that the cross marking was to be applied at the factory but covered over by suitable means for delivery Does anyone have any information if the Blackburn Roc aircraft pictured at Dyce awaiting delivery had the British Black and White identification markings applied underwing as per the delivered Hurricanes? another query i was wondering is if anyone has a clearer image of the parked aircraft confirming the codes aplied, the aircraft in the foreground is quite visible but was wondering if there was any confirmation of the other airframes seen, especially the one in the differing camouflage scheme? many thanks, cheers, Joe ps. just a snippet, in the back of my mind iv a thought that iv seen a photograph of the Roc (or Skua?) aircraft being prepped for their delivery flight at the Factory?, altho i cant recall where iv seen it, typical

yip all 3 examples iv checked so far have the same sinks on the upper cowling, a tiny smear of filler fixes it in minutes tho is it just me or are there extra panel lines on the wingtips too needing filled? having said that if i wasnt being lazy id fill pretty much all of the other ones in too, grrr some models soo do not suit extensive 'quilt lines' covering their surfaces (a discussion for another time perhaps?) I'm not sure as to the accuracy of the engine 'bulges' in planform shape, i'll be at Southampton museum later this week which has their Mk.22 ideally positioned for overhead photograpy so i'll have a looksee!" cheers, Joe

hiyas, my local model store, Jamiesons Models in Glasgow had a batch of them delivered this morning, priced at £19.99 (i picked up a couple for a colleague) its stil the bastardised cannon armed Mk.1 which Revell retooled as a Mk.II a number of years ago but stil a nice kit when built as a 'normal' Mk.1 cheers, Joe

i am planning to complete one of my models in the low demarcation scheme Hong Kong based 'spyplane' shown in the PR.19 magazine article, does anyone out there have thoughts as to colour of the underwing serials, the artwork and text state black but the photograph shown with the article seems to show white codes? this may be a reflection of a glossier paint surface but possibly not? another scheme iv been trying to find information on is of one of the Swedish Supermarine Spitfire PR.19's which was used on overflights of Finland (and presumably other Baltic regions?) with its 'Swedish crown' roundels removed and civillian codes applied? does anyone know of any images of the markings or indeed the serial used? or any further information on the flights? so far what iv found is that during the late 1940's the Swedish military had learned from reports that the Soviets were constructing rocket stations near the Finnish border in Kantalahti/Kandalaksha (possibly the root of some of those post war 'ghost rocket' reports?) The Swedish Air Force sent Lieutenant Ingemar Wängström in civillian clothes in his Spitfire PR.19 with over-painted Swedish markings to photograph the sites in question. After analysing the 200 meter long film Wängström had photographed, the HQ noticed no rocket stations in the area. Six MiG-15s (3 pairs) had followed the Spitfire but none of them got close enough to engage. The overflight was observed by Finnish Border Guard posts, but the Swedish goverment denied any flight over Finland and USSR in 20.12.1949. many thanks, cheers, Joe

iv just been looking over the Trumpeter 1/72 scale EE. Lightning ... is it just me or is there a serious accuracy problem with the kit? (and no im not referring to the oft quoted and easily fixed rear end issues!) having looked at a number of photographs of the aircraft as well as checking over 2 actual airframes at the weekend to recheck what i was seeing (Elvington and Carlisle) there is something seriously wrong with where the canopy is in relation to where the wing leading edge meets the fuselage, the kit having the le. about midway to the canopy wheras the actual aircraft sits more toward the rear of the canopy (compare pics of the actual aircraft with the model and youll see what im getting at !?? im not sure where the problem lies wither the wing or cockpit positioning, ill have to source some 'accurate' drawings to check ? im not sure if the larger 1/32 scale release has similar issues, iv not come across any comments re same in the reviews iv read either, any thoughts ??? cheers, joe

thats a really beautiful piece of modelling of the Valom kit looked amazing in the current (Aug 2009) issue of Scale Aircraft Modelling too just a thought and something thats niggled me ever since seeing a Hampden to Hereford conversion in Airfix Magazine all those years ago, as well as picking up the old Maintrack resin engine conversion ... hopefully im wrong, but from photographs the Hereford had normal parallel'ish in plan view engines which means the fairing on the wing would be narrower than that of the radial engined Hampden, i think the tapering in plan view engines is a hang over from the old 1960's conversion article and hasnt been looked at since definately not to denegrade a brilliant model build, just musing, again ill happily be proved wrong, any thoughts ... cheers, joe