Mu17

The illustration is of the first H.XVIII proposal, which was very much a concept drawing. This was abandoned in favour of the smaller and ugly version with enormous fixed spats and external engines, which was submitted in competition with the Ju.287 and Me.P.1107/II (amazingly just issued by RS Models). Contrary to most publications, I haven't seen and documents referring to them as H.XVIIIa and b. I believe Sharkits1/72 kit of the first version had major fit issues and I wait for decent replacement. Their kit of the second version has the wrong wing sweep, so again better is needed. The offerings in 1/144 by Anigrand and Unicraft are much better. 1/48 ???? Bob you must have a much bigger house than me - but then I am going to build a model of every individual Horten ! Paul

The reaction to this release surprises me. Although the Ju.187 was never built, it was a serious project from major company, seeking to design a modern replacement for the iconic but slow Ju87 Stuka As a model it allows people to see this design in 3D rather than just drawings or photos. Surely that is one of the things modelling is about. Although its not a model I will buy ( as I dislike he design) non-the-less I feel pleased that it has become available for those those that want one. Surely with any obscure model, that's the attitude we should have - hooray for the lucky folks whose prayers have been answered If you want to knock 'wasted resources' - the infinite repetition of Bf109, Mustangs, Spitfires, would be a better target, when there are plenty of good kits already available ? I don't want to start a debate on that (its been done before). Personally I am interested in SOME of the German projects, such as the Me,262 HG.III which was actively being developed. Along with types such as the Bv.P215 which had reached the stage of detailed design. I am not generally interested in many of the 'project designs' which were really paper studies/comparisons as the designers felt their way towards a viable design. Many of these were never going to be built. However, thats a personal thing and I have no problem with models of these types The only things I do feel are a waste of time, are spurious models of variants invented by kit producers that never existed even as paper designs - ie The Me262 HGIV - it never existed the crescent shaped Horten fighter with ramjets at the tips and many me. Sadly some modellers assume they are 'real' just because a kit exists. Vive Ia difference ! PauI

Thanks for that Paul

I forgot to ask - do RS release their models quickly after they announce them ? Paul

In exasperation, guess who bought a 1/144 3D printed one ? Well at least it can stand alongside its competitors - Ju.287 and Horten H.XVIII (b) and I can get them all on one shelf. Still hoping for an accurate H.XVIII (b) in 1/72 as the Sharkit one is wildly inaccurate. Paul

The best book available is Horten Ho229 Spirit of Thuringia by my friend Huib Ottens, recently republished by Crecy. It has the BEST drawings available of all versions - by the expert Arthur Bentley. Many photos in the Schiffer books by David Myhra, although the words a unreliable. Consider also the V6 production version - no kit of this has eve ben made - I can help with some original drawings - please contact me.... warwick10@virginmedia.com Paul Williams

As far as I know, the AMP kit is not in stock in the UK even though it was released in August 2020. Consequently I took the precaution of buying one via ebay but I was curious if nyone knows what the hold up is ? Incidentally it seems a nice kit although there is some flash on some of the very fine undercarriage parts. Like Zac, a V2 would be vey welcome but I wonder if AMP realise that they could adapt the moulding to produce the original H.IX in the form it was 'sold' to Goering, with an impractically shot undercarriage. Pul

Spinning the Bocian was interesting as those downward raked fuselage sides made you feel that the glider was nose down past the vertical. An instructor showing me high speed stalls off steep turns, had one get away from him - we flicked inverted, did most of on revolution of spin inverted, before it flicked the right way up and spun again - never seen the horizon arrive from so many different directions in quick successions ! Paul

Thanks for confirming that - it will be interesting to see what Revell price it at. However I have three Dragon and also three 1/48 ZM Ho.229, so I'm not really in need ! Paul

Col - I don't want to swamp the thread with a Horten discussion, so I've sent you a message with my contact details (might be more than one as its a bit glitchy) Paul

Hi Col - at first glance the Ho.229.V6 intake look like the V2 - so the upper wing surface is smooth and the engine has no protruding fairing. The lower surface does have a small protruding fairing. From memory, the engines move about 150mm outboard. However the changes re more significant. The contour of the whole top surface of the centre section is the same as V3/Revell/Dragon kits except the forward engine intake lip is gone. This is achieved by changing the engine thrustline and that is done by lowering the front of the engine. On V3 the centre of the engine lines up with the centreline of the wing leading edge - in front view. On V6 the engine centreline is well below the wing centreline. This would have resulted in a lot of the engine hanging out of the underside but this is avoided by making the wing section thicker but that extra thickness is applied to the underside only. The thicker underside can be seen very clearly on Dragons two seater - why ? because the two seater was a stretched version of the Ho.229V6 - unhelpfully Hortens drawing of the two seater is also labelled V6 but thats another story. Unfortunately you can't just cut the nose off the two seater to create a V6 due to the geometry of the longer airfoil created by the extended nose which also changes the top surface contour very slightly. However with some extra sanding, a reasonable representation might be achieved. Note that the windscreen of the canopy would look more like an Fw.190. For drawings - treat yourself to a set from Arthur Bentley or buy the excellent book Spriit of Thuringia by Huib Ottens by Classic Publications (which contains them). The Valiant publication on the Ho.229 is decent value for money in respect of its photo content on V1, V2 and V3 but its account of the development of the Ho.229 is woefully inaccurate and the author clearly didn't read the many reference books he lists in the appendix ! In case anyone was wondering what is wrong with Zoukei Mura's two seat conversion pack - it was produced to be an add on to their almost perfect V3 kit. A good commercial decision. In fact the two seater is a development of the V6 and V6 had a TOTALLY different steel tube centre section structure. Zoukei Mura would have had to produce an entirely new kit and commercially thats not viable. The result is that modellers have ben sold a fantasy. The above information is from original documentation and surviving drawings. Paul

Presumably the 1/48 Horten Ho.229 A-1 is the former Dragon kit ? A decent enough model as long as it is substantially cheaper than than the superb Zoukei Mura one. Its frustrating that there is no model in any scale of the Ho229v6 - with bulged underside and different engine intakes - which would have been the prototype for the production series (although no production had ben authorised by the end of the war. Such a model would be a legitimate basis for Luft 46 colour schemes. Not so the Revell / Dragon / Zouki Mura / Brengun models which do not represent the A-1 but depict the three prototypes V3/V4/V5, which would have been used for initial flight trials until 10 prototypes like the V6 were available. Dragons 1/48 nachtjager remains the only model of the two seater in any scale - both the Pioneer kit and the Zoukei Mura conversion kit are sadly fantasies. Paul

Hi Blabber mouth - the Plant Kranich is resin rather than injected - it could also be better - I know the Kranich intimately having restored a full scale one. My point is simply that duplication seems such a waste and surely can't help profits . Anyway nuff said. Paul

Always good to see new glider kits appearing but this emerging area seems to be going down the same road of multiple Bf,109, Spitfires and Mustangs at a time when some significant gliders have yet to be injection moulded in 1/72, let alone 1/48. Of course the Grunau Baby is the most well known and important glider, along with the SG.38 but as far as I know the important Mu13 has never even been issued as a resin in any scale. Given the recession which all seem to agree is coming, less duplication would also make good economic sense. Paul

Certainly a nice injection moulded 1/48 Kranich would be nice (I restored one) but we are well catered with Habichts. The most noticeable gap even in 1/72 is the Mu13 which was around in some numbers. It would be exciting to see models of some of the high performance one-off's built by the Akafliegs that were a prominent feature of the 1930's Rhon competitions. Paul

The photo (as captioned) is a Grunau Baby III which is slightly different to the wartime IIb, especially the abbreviated skid, enclosed canopy and the cockpit surround. Paul (glider nerd)

The end of the road !! Paypal just refunded my $74 for the BD5 as they could get no response from Civilized Models !!!!!! As it is now the 16th January, the model was obviously not posted on 10 December ! I gave them the benefit of the doubt - was told three times it was about to be posted - or had been posted. Last time I was unambiguously told his son had posted it 1st Class with UPS and promised a tracking number. Then told UPS didn't do a tracking number but he would send a customs number and of course no customs number appeared. Promised a second freebie model for my inconvenience and he even emailed to check what livery I wanted. All this guff but no model - sad and aggravating. I note that other people have had VERY long delays but some did get their models eventually - however do make sure you don't let it drift past your Paypal deadline. You have ben warned. Paul

Well nothing arrived by the 6th January so I escalated the Paypal claim to the next level one day before the deadline. Now its the 9th nd still nothing in the post. Its possible that its snarled up somewhere in the Christmas post but as time marches on, that's harder and harder to believe, unless it was posted much later than claimed. Despite being an optimist, I've stopped holding my breath. Sad. Paul

Hi Buzz - yes its very difficult to believe in a happy outcome and not surprised that you can smell it from there ! Switzerland is one of my favourite places and we have been walking in the Berner Oberland area many times. In fact we are spending Christmas in Luzern this year. So in the next few days I will make my Paypal claim. Paul

After a further prompt, I'm told that the models did go out in the post as stated but as stamps were bought in the ge post office, there is no tracking number, only a customs number but he's out of the shop until Sunday. Well Gary ws the one who said he'd send the tracking info ! Allegedly postage will take around 21 days. What a shambles ! It would have taken a lot less time to do the job properly than keep fending me off. I really do not know whether to expect to see the models or not ! I can allow a few days to see if the customs number does appear - just to complete the picture but even so, I have no choice than to file a Paypal complaint. Paul

Hi Buzz, thanks for your useful comments, much appreciated. I figured that I would wait and see if a tracking number does actually appear on Friday/Saturday - allowing for the time difference. However, I completely agree with you - will the tracking number relate to me, will the kit arrive, will it be what I ordered and will the quality be acceptable ?????? Saturday will leave me 14 days to my Paypal deadline and its highly unlikely the parcel will arrive before then - so on Saturday I will make a precautionary claim. I will let you know what happens. Paul

We could certainly do with a V1 and V2 but the modelling community continues its delusion that any Ho.229 resembling the V3 (now at NASAM) would ever have seen combat. The substantially revised V6 would have been the first of 10 further prototypes and represented the proposed production version...….. although production was never authorised. So can we have a 1/72 V6 ?? and also a V6 two seat derivative (as per the Dragon model). Decent drawings exist - no primary research needed. Zouki Mura's Ho.229 is a truly superb and accurate model but the two seat conversion they offer, is a complete fantasy. The real two seater project was derived from V6 whose internal structure was completely different to V3 and Zoukei Mura did not feel they could produce an entirely new model. Paul

Advised on Wednesday that the kits went in the post Monday but because of holidays, he won't be in the shop until Friday , when he will send the tracking link ! Really not sure what to make of that - and if it is enroute - will they arrive in the UK from the USA before my deadline for a Paypal claim expires ?? Paul

After 10 days I sent a sharp reminder - now the model is going to be in the post Monday 2nd December and a free extra BD5 as an apology, whilst asking which I wanted. Having settled on the jet, I got another email immediately, asking which livery. Its a step in the right direction but we shall see. I am keeping a careful eye on the deadline for getting my money bck from Paypal. Paul

Monday was now 10 days ago - be warned folks. Paul