roncl

Great information everyone! Does anyone have any pictures or a diagram showing the compartment where the spent cases and links were collected? Thanks. And Happy New Year everyone!

Great clarification Jari! I noticed the incorrect comments above, but thought I would let someone who actually worked on the CF-104 M61 cannon clarify and correct those comments. Thanks. Ron

Thanks TBC. Great picture! And thanks JayBee! That is an awesome video showing the loading of the 20 mm cannon! Much appreciated!

Thanks Finn. Great information! I am still working on trying to attach some pictures. The cannon feed arrangement was obviously a reliable system, I am just trying to fully understand it based on the pictures I have seen. The pilots I have spoken with who flew 104s and fired the cannon loved it. I sent you a PM with a couple more questions. Thanks.

TBC - Thanks for the excellent picture out of Dave Bashaw’s book. Finn - Thanks for the excellent description of how to load the ammo can. Your memory seems very good! And that is an excellent cutaway drawing that you posted. So, there are three compartments making up the large ammo can, and you only fill up a portion of each of the three compartments. I have seen a couple of pictures showing the top lids that I will post. One shows the guide for the belt to the chute down to the gun, while the other is the outside lid that as you said opens from right to left. I will post the pictures that I have found. How did you connect and lay down the ammo belts between the three compartments of the ammo can so that the ammunition belt continued to feed freely without getting jammed up? Thanks again everyone for your input! Ron

Thanks Rob! That’s an interesting picture! It sure looks like loading the ammo can was definitely a two man job!

Thanks Rob! That’s an interesting picture! It sure looks like loading the ammo can was definitely a two man job!

Thanks Andre and Rob! Much appreciated! Yes, the ammo can is behind the pilot and behind the electronics equipment. I am hoping to find some pictures showing the ammo can with the lid open so you can see the rounds loaded in the can (or where they go), and the rounds on the top of the can ready to be fed to the cannon. Thanks again gents!

Does anyone have any detailed pictures or drawings of the ammo can used for the M61 Vulcan cannon on the F-104 Starfighter? I would be interested is seeing how the shells are loaded in the can, and how the shells are fed to the cannon, as well as where the expended cases and links are collected under the gun. Any pictures, drawings or information that could be provided would be greatly appreciated! Thank you.

Thanks Ewen. That makes sense! I never really payed much attention to the Spitfires and Seafires that were fitted with both guns and cameras. They played an important role!

Excellent information gents. I have found it fascinating to read the information that has been posted here. I am a bit confused about how many cameras were fitted to the FR llC and the LR III Seafire. I had thought there was only one camera in the fuselage behind the pilot. Where was the second camera fitted in these aircraft? And on related topic, where was the camera or cameras fitted on the F6F Hellcat? Thanks in advance everyone! roncl

Hi Everyone, Thanks for the outstanding information. I am learning a lot about British Carrier Operations that I never knew! Regarding the installation of the long barrel Hispano cannon (Mk ll) vs the short barrel Hispano (Mk V) in the Seafire wing, the front mounting for the two cannons was noticeably different. As mentioned by Skyhawk in Post #31 and Ewen in Post # 39, based on the angle of the picture or video, it can be difficult to determine the length of the cannon fairing. However, as mentioned by Tomas in Post #32, the different front mountings for the two cannons clearly identifies (in most cases) which cannon had been installed. The Mk ll cannon extended 36.25 inches from the front of the wing. The front mounting for the cannon was 13.89 inches long, while the fairing for the cannon barrel was 20.32 inches long. The actual barrel extended another 2.04 inches beyond the end of the fairing. These measurements are from the outstanding book “Spitfire IX and XVI: Engineered” by Paul Monforton. The pictures, drawings and level of detail are amazing. I strongly recommend it. The Mk V cannon extended 24.25 inches (12 inches shorter) from the front of the wing, and the front mounting for the Mk V cannon was much shorter (I don’t have exact measurements but it is probably in the order of 3.5 - 4.5 inches or maybe a bit longer). The recoil spring was shorter and was located right up against the front mounting, and the barrel extended the rest of the distance. The Mk ll cannon, by comparison, had a recoil spring that was significantly longer and can be seen extending further down the barrel compared to the Mk V. I am attaching some pictures that show the cannon barrel of the Mk ll cannon with the barrel fairing removed. You can clearly see that the front mounting for the Mk ll cannon and the recoil spring is significantly longer. Pictures showing Seafires with the cannon fairing for the Mk ll cannon removed are tougher to find, and I have included a picture of a Mk IX Spitfire with the fairing removed to show the detail. The Mk II cannon mounting for the Spit Mk IX and the Seafire IIc and III would have been the same. I am also attaching a couple more pictures showing the Mk V cannon with the fairing removed. Despite the above differences between the cannon mountings for the Mk ll and Mk V cannons, it can still be difficult to determine which cannon is mounted on the aircraft in some pictures due to the angle of the picture or video. However, I am quite certain that the pictures I have posted above of Seafire 129 being pushed off the deck show Mk V cannons fitted. I am surprised at the number of pictures I have seen with the fairing removed from the Mk V cannon. It seems like it might have been a fairly common practice to fly without the fairing. It doesn't make sense to me as the fairing was designed to protect the barrel and improve aerodynamics. Seafire lll (or Seafire llc) with Mk ll cannon. Note longer front mounting. The cannon and fairings seemed to be damaged regularly by the barrier set up. Roncl Spitfire IX with Mk ll cannon and fairings off. Mk ll cannon front mounting on Spitfire. Mike Crosley in Seafire lll. Mk V cannons with fairing off. Mk ll cannon front mounting on Spitfire. Mk V cannons on Seafire 115. Mike Crosley? Fairings off. Seafire with Mk V cannon. Fairing off. Seafire llc with Mk ll cannon. Note longer front mounting and dislodged fairing. Outboard cannon stub removed post manufacture?

A couple more pictures of Seafires showing both the long barrel Mk ll cannon and the shorter barrel Mk V cannon. The difference in barrel length is quite noticeable. The cannon barrels and fairings, not to mention the whole aircraft, definitely took some abuse when the aircraft hit the barrier wires. Don't know anything about this picture, but definitely a Seafire lll with Mk V cannons and no fairings on the guns. The Seafire on the left has the long barrel Mk ll cannons, while the one on the right does not have a fairing on its Mk V cannon barrel. I have seen a picture of Mike Crosley sitting in Seafire lll NN621,1115/N and it appears as if there are no fairings on the Mk V cannons. I wonder if they flew the aircraft without the fairings on occasion.

Ok, I will try now. Attached are some screen shots from the above video links. You can see both long barrel and short barrel fairings on the cannon barrels of the various Seafire lll's. The barrel fairings certainly took some abuse when the aircraft crashed. The fairings are completely off the Mk V cannons in the first and fifth pictures. .

Here are some screen shots from the above videos. You can see both the long barrel and short barrel cannons installed in these Seafire lll's. It appears to me as if the Mk V cannon was used operationally in WWII. Hmm, having trouble posting pictures. Stay tuned. Thanks. Ron