AndyL

Here's a crop taken from one of my 604 Squadron photos which may be of use. I do have a separate air to air image in which you can just make out the mesh over the intake, however, I may be looking at a time frame later than the Beau you want to model. Regards Andy

A few turret details for reference...

@Troy Smith thanks for the heads up - I've already got this image for the book, via the son who's father flew it, plus his log book pages too. Thanks again.

Adding a close up showing the lamp on L7012.

@Olmec Head Your post brings up an interesting point regarding the downward identification lamp. And I think it's purely a case that Airfix missed it. As to the assumption that the Mk I did not carry the downward lamp, and only the small one aft of the speed fairing on the upper fuselage does not match up with the pairing as fitted to other day fighters such as the Hurricane and Spitfire. The prototype Defiant, K8310 had one fitted, as did the second, K8620. If you look carefully, you can see the location of the lamp as it shows as a small raised area. I have attached two images - the air to air show just shows the lamp ( to the left of the yellow line I've added ) and the other shows it in place albeit with a loose housing and dangling wire. To give some kind of timeframe, L7012 was on strength with 141 Squadron in May 1940.

I'd say that profile is wrong. N3437 was delivered to 10 MU on the 29th December 1940, then to 307 on 1st February 1941. As all aircraft deployed in the night fighter role had to be in overall black according to an Air Ministry order on 22nd November, I'd suggest that N3437 came off the Boulton Paul production line in an all black scheme.

Here's N1684 as delivered to 307 Squadron on 18th September 1940, the day after N1671. They came in from different MU's with the former in from 10 MU, and the latter from 6 MU.

That's a superbly done Defiant showing some lovely workmanship. As some on this site know, the Defiant is pretty much my thing, and I really like that. Defiant engine bays were always a dull silver finish and the kill markings should show two in red, the others in white, denoting the difference between kills at day and night. Des Hughes is the only Defiant pilot I know of to use the Defiant's ability to allow the pilot to fire the turret guns. This he did attacking a He 111 in November 1940 when the turret got jammed by the spent cartridge catch bags and was locked out facing to the beam. The Defiant always had the capacity to fire forward, as long as the air gunner turned the master switch in the turret from gunner to pilot. Then with the guns facing full forward, they had to be elevated to 22 degrees above the horizontal for the lower guns to clear the prop arc. Des Hughes' unpublished memoirs, which I have a copy, confirms the encounter which had him rocking the Defiants wings while at the same time attempting to 'hose' the He111. When at readiness, the turret was always turned facing to starboard, but even with it in the forward position access could be gained via the panel in the fuselage floor - this was used often by armourers when it came to fitting new ammunition cans and emptying out the spent rounds catch bags. And it's nice to see that N1801 is correctly coded as PS-Y not PS-B, as some decal companies have offered. PS-B was actually N3366 and was the regular mount of Ted Thorn and Fred Barker. One again, lovely work all through.

@Paul H I've emailed Steve Brew and asked the question. I've also gone through my pile of 234 Squadron images taken at St Eval when Michael was there with them, but none show him I'm afraid. But I have some general 234 Squadron photos at St Eval should you want copies. I will of course send you the whole AIR81 file when I have copied it. I was out this morning and popped in at Church Crookham to pay my respects - I had to photograph a couple more graves of the Few this morning so I decided to head that way.

@Paul H I assume you have contact with Steve Brew, the 41 Squadron historian? He has many serial/code matches for the squadron's Spitfires. If not I can put you in touch. As for the content of the AIR81 casualty file, there is the slight possibility that it may have the code letter - but having gone through many AIR81 files code letters are few and far between. If it is in there, it will be in one of the first communications with the casualty branch. The rest of the documentation could be in the form of a court of inquiry, burial notice, correspondence with the family from the Air Ministry, and the mundane stuff like his personal effects list. That said, some files may only have a handful of pages, others dozens. You just don't know what's in the file until you get it in your hands. However your post has come with good timing, as I hope to get to Kew in a couple of weeks and one of the files I was planning to copy is AIR81/5562. This is because I am starting to prepare a manuscript on Berkshire's fighter pilots, and Michael Briggs is on that list, including others like Colin Pinkney of 603 Squadron, Bob Dafforn of 501 Squadron, Gerard Maffett of 257 Squadron and Hugh Lambert of 25 Squadron to name but a few. I have attached an image which shows Michael at Hornchurch with 41 Squadron. It came via Norman Ryder who is cutting the cake that celebrates their 100th 'kill'. Michael, as you can see is on the far right.

If anyone is interested here's the original ejection seat as tested in the Defiant. And going back to the OP; another option is the prototype Defiant K8310 which finished it's days as a ferry aircraft. It had the turret removed and a seat installed, and the aircraft was fitted with a sliding canopy for the passenger. Just a thought...

DR944 and DR945 followed the same path - off the production line, then to 46 MU before going to 11 Combat Crew Replacement Centre. Finished in standard RAF colour scheme, it looks like the image I posted may indicate a repaint, but on second glance I can see the possible remnants of part of the black striping at the very top of the starboard undercarriage door. Now, if this photo had been taken from the port side, we would have a better idea as the back stripes cover the port door more substantially. I've attached another image ( albeit not too good ) of another American Defiant coded JW-J, which still retains the fin flash.

The simple reason why the Defiant was pulled out of the front line role is that it was simply too slow. In 1942 Defiant crews only made six claims in the first six months as they were having difficulties keeping up with the newer German bombers, so the decision was made to start the process of re-equipping those existing Defiant squadrons with Beaufighters and Mosquitos.

Reference the single seat conversion, sans turret; this image was taken on 13th August 1940, and had been an independent endeavour by Boulton Paul to give the Air Ministry an option for a third single seat fighter. The reasons it never came to fruition, amongst others was that the Air Ministry would not commit resources to a third fighter, and Boulton Paul's slow production of the Defiant made them think that getting the deliveries as per the contract could well be an issue. Earlier in 1940 the Air Ministry ordered an official investigation into why Boulton Paul were failing to meet their targets, plus the electricians at the factory had undertaken industrial action in April 1940. Even in 1940, there were individuals looking ahead to what would replace the Hurricane for it was mooted that Hurricane production would cease sometime in 1941. The two ejection seat test beds were indeed DR944 and AA292, The former was a TT I and had spent most of it's time with the Americans. When the Ministry of Aircraft Production approved the loan of a Defiant on 11th October 1944, which saw DR944 received at Denham two months later. It was in a poor state and need a complete overhaul, which included the strengthening of the rear fuselage. The first ejection test was undertaken on 10th May 1945, with the seat being loaded with sandbags and fired from the static aircraft which was on jacks. The following day it was flown to Wittering where it undertook the first in flight ejection, under the control of Brian Greenstead who was the chief test pilot for Rotol. Later that month more tests were undertaken from Beaulieu. DR944 was struck off charge in May 1948. AA292 was built as a Mk I before being converted to a TT III in 1944. It undertook seat trials in 1945 and was eventually scrapped in March 1947. The attached image is reputedly DR944 while under American management.

Door inners, legs, wheels, and the undercarriage bays should be in silver/aluminium. If depicting a machine post 11th August 1940, it should have roundels on the undersides of the wings. The above crop is from the series of images held by the IWM and were taken at Kirton in Lindsey on 6th August 1940. When I pull my finger out and get back to modelling, there are several unknown Battle of Britain Defiants that I plan to build, both from 141 and 264 Squadrons.

I’d say from a modellers point of view, the Franks Defiant, A Technical Guide is good. Decent plans in 1/48 and an awful lot from the AP Manuals too. Minor errors when writing up the history of the type but it’s ok.

Google Pathe News Amiens Raid - there’s some footage on there that may help.

What you’re missing is interfering with a site without a licence is illegal under the Protection of Military Remains Act. Though this actually doesn’t stop people to be fair. The MoD don’t own the site, they own what’s left of the aircraft. RAF are Crown Property. German crash remains are captured war property, and the MoD act as agents for the American Government when it comes to their crash sites. When we used to use the licence system, an application was submitted with all the aircraft and crew details, and later added to the form was the permission box from the landowner. Also a OS map reference which covered you for a 100m radius of that map ref. What was recovered had to be listed on a returns form, and you would then get a legal transfer of ownership of the items recovered. I’ve recently been involved in a proposed surface sweep on a Wellington crash site, which got an immediate refusal as five crew members were killed. As I mentioned in an earlier post they took the line of stopping licences after legally issued ones ended up with substantial remains being found. It only needed about 8lbs of human body weight to be recovered for it it be deemed the full recovery of the body during wartime. I really don’t want to come across as a downer, but these are the facts we are up against now as the MoD are taking things to the extreme. Even recovery licences I have held before where there have been fatalities are a no no. I was recently refused a re visit on a Spitfire site where I’ve held the licence since the late 90s. That said, I’ve really enjoyed your post and your keenness and I wish you all the best with your project. Andy

Even with the landowners permission, metal detecting on the site is illegal. The MoD have a strict non interference policy where aircrew have been killed. Licences, at the moment, on sites where there were fatalities will not be granted. This is due to some sites, where a licence has been given, and during investigation human remains have been found. I have recently seen some communication from the MoD and JCCC which stated that even if there was the chance of disturbing something as small as a finger bone, then no licence would be forthcoming. Also, bear in mind that what is left on site is MoD property as the remains of Luftwaffe aircraft is termed as captured war property.

Graham. I have an old Paragon MB Mk 9 you can have. PM me your address and I’ll post it out. Regards Andy

Just thought I'd add in this image from the Life Magazine set taken at RAF Debden, which shows how the Parasuit fits on the air gunner.

It's lovely footage which shows the turret very well indeed. One of the oft repeated myths in the Defiant story is that the Parasuit was worn because there was no room for a parachute in the turret. Actually there was, only that if the gunner was wearing a Parasuit then the seat had to be folded up. At one stage it was suggested that these suits were to be issued to air gunners manning mid upper and ventral turrets, however The Parasuit soldiered on in use with Defiant units, but there was a mix of aircrew wearing them and the observers harness with the clip on parachute pack. As an aside it's thought there are only around ten Parasuits in existence, including two in the Kent Battle of Britain Museum, Hawkinge.

You're spot on. Aluminium bays, and U/C legs. In the attached image it looks like Sky paint on the insides of the doors too. This image was taken on August 6th 1940. I haven't seen Defiants with black/white U/C legs I'm afraid.

Here you go...

Hi Lindsey, There's a few options I could offer, including Squadron Leader Dickie Richardson's personal Defiant, as you mentioned him in your post. I don't think history has been kind to him with regard to 141 and the Defiant. True he was one of the pilots vocal about not being keen on the type ( and there were a few, in both 141 and 264 ) but he is always measured by the events of 19th July. Common misconceptions are his failure to follow how 264 operated in combat, the formation they were flying, that they were bounced and caught totally unaware; it's all pretty far from the truth. He was an exceptional pilot, and flew on 23 Squadron's pre-war aerobatic team and by the end of July 1940 had over 1800 flying hours to his credit. I could go on, but this has been covered in depth in my history of the Defiant which is being published by Pen and Sword this year. Another Defiant I can offer is L6996 PS-L that was regularly flown by David 'Bull' Whitley and Robert 'Sam' Turner of 264 Squadron - Sam was from Reading, where I live and was killed in action on 28th August 1940 along with Bull. I have more options for the night fighters if you're interested - a nice one is N1773 PS-H, fitted with the Bluenote exhaust system and IFF. I've attached one of my favourite photos - it's from when Life Magazine visited 264 Squadron at Debden and did a session with them ( along with 85 Squadron at Castle Camps ). When finishing a Defiant, one thing that Airfix got slightly wrong was the size of the gas patches located on the port wing, the decals are a tad undersized.