dave665

Very nice work foiling the wings Rob. Did you note the photo I found shows the fuel tanks fitted in G-IRTY's gun bays? You can see the black filler caps on the replacement upper wing panels. Looks like there is something on the lower wing panels as well in your photo.

Rob are you going to try replicating the stressed skin on G-IRTY's polished wings? It shows up well in the first photo in this article on historicalracingnews.com.

@rob Lyttle they used a second spitfire to promote the project. They painted G-BRSF (RR232) silver for an event at Goodwood as G-IRTY (MJ271) was still being restored. Article here. So pictures of the silver spitfire with cannons/cannon blisters could be RR232 in silver paint. G-IRTY, now highly polished, has had the cannons and blisters removed.

Impressive use of materials. Scratch building at its best and the final results ain't bad either. Good stuff.

Nice work getting everything to fit on top of the fuel tank. One thing I have to say though... the canvas cover on the power panel. The fabric you have used looks way over scale. Would masking tape or microporous tape look more to scale? Dave Forgot to mention... is the canvas cover on back to front? Shouldn't the hole in the cover be the same side as the yellow fuel vent?

Ouch... those 3D printed parts. I would have hoped for a better finish at those prices. It just goes to show that 3D printing is not necessarily the best way to go. You may have been better off 3D printing just the front of those parts. But with your modelling skills I somehow doubt it. As for the Bendix MN26C in the Lopes Hope photo, it looks okay to me. Or am I missing something? I briefly had a go at modeling it in Blender and found a Bendix brochure that had the dimensions of the MN26. It gave them as 305 x 200 x 446 mm (w.h.d), including mounting base and excluding any connectors. So I made the main box to be around 6 3/4" high. My guesstimates came up with 165 to 175 mm high from looking at a number of photos of the front of the box. The big grey tuning connector that is top left on the front is about 2 7/8" top to bottom (looking at the photos here). It gave me another point of reference for the height. Peter did you ever take a look at Fusion 360. It appears that Autodesk have changed things recently. The free license for students and hobby use is still available, but you now get the full version. Note that Fusion 360 is cloud based so you'll need a decent broadband connection to use it. Dave

@LorenSharp I have found photos of B-52B 52-0013 that show it has 56x16 main wheel tyres. So it looks there was no difference in the tyres between types. Among the photos was one of the outrigger wheel that shows on the hub it should be fitted with a 32x8.8 tyre. Looking it up in the aircraft tyre list I found. 32x8.8 tire - Outside Diameter 30.52", Section 8.63" - Rim diameter 16", width 7" Tom... nice work on the fuselage. Impressed with the way you just knock up the bulkheads and make it look so simple. Everything looks clean and tidy as well! Dave

@LorenSharp the following is from a list of aircraft and the tyres they use I found on the web. It has some of the dimensions of the tyre. Boeing B52-H - Main Tire 56x16 - Outside diameter 57.18", section 15.8" - Rim diameter 28", width 12.75" Can't remember the source, but hope it helps. Dave

Peter what can I say... mind boggling level of detail on those panels and instruments. As ever... inspiring stuff. As for the cross tread pattern on the SC27 tyre I was modelling in Blender. After finding more reference images plus a bit of artistic guess work, here are the results from my latest 3D rendering. I'm still tweaking things like the profile of the tyre. The sidewall pattern isn't quite right either. But the basics are there like the shape and number of blocks in the tread. Not sure how well this tyre will 3D print though. The detail will be quite fine at 1/18 scale. The grooves in this render of the tyre would only be 0.5 mm wide. So a printer with a resolution of 0.1 mm may struggle to reproduce it. Dave

Looks like you've got the lights on the wings sorted Johnny. A bit late I know but I found a few more photos of the rear light assembly on the wing tip in this post on warbird information exchange. But there may be some other photos on there that you may find useful. They are from the restoration of Lancaster FM212 in Canada. Excellent work on the turret. Coming together rather nicely. Liking it a lot. Dave

Does the 4th picture here help at all? Shows PA474 with the late formation lights. Dave

Like you Peter I treat the mishaps as lessons on how to do get it right. I'll get the small diamond tyre pattern to match eventually. But I'm looking at the large diamond pattern now. Having more success as this is matching the reference images quite well. The reference images I've found show that this 'crosses' pattern is different tyre all together. This tyre looks to have at least 40 blocks round it and the sidewall/shoulder pattern is very different. It's very similar to this Firestone SC 33 which has 40 blocks. But it looks to say 'UNION' on the side of the tyre in John's 1st photo. I believe the other small diamond pattern tyre came in two versions, a solid diamond and a cross diamond. In fact I'm finding more tyre patterns the more I search for Mustang photos. I've even found several photos of Mustangs sporting mis-matching tyres. I'd say either tyre pattern could be matched to those on "Lope's Hope 3rd". Especially as the photo is not the clearest and the tyres are caked in mud. Dave

Peter your comments have got me doubting the accuracy of my diamond pattern. Plus John's post made me realise I'd missed the fact that the wheel you posted only had eight spokes. So I've gone back to the photos I found of the tread pattern and re-compared them with images of my 3D model. I also did a bit of maths to see if the 36 x 4 array of blocks made sense. Things didn't look quite right or add up. (Ooops!) Looking at my comparison photo above with a fresh pair of eyes. I noticed that in the tyre bottom right has ten blocks marked with red lines and they look to cover a quarter of the circumference. So there are 40 not 36 blocks round the circumference. Going back to my maths... things also looked better with a count of 40 blocks. The shape of the diamond block comes out almost square with a 40 x 4 array of blocks. So Peter if you used a 36 x 4 array earlier try flowing a 40 x 4 array around the tyre in Rhino and see if it helps the grooves and diamonds line up better. So back to the drawing board with Blender for me. Dave

Peter I did something similar in Blender. But my block pattern is slightly different to yours. I sloped the edge to the half diamond. In Blender I do something similar to what your doing in Rhino. I curved the block pattern to the tyre profile, repeated it and then curve the resulting tread round the circumference of the tyre. Sounds so easy when I say it like that. If only it was!!! May be adding the extra slope to the sides will help get a better result in Rhino. I also noted that there were different wheel styles when searching for examples of the tyre. In this photo of P-51C-5-NT "Mazie R" on American Air Museum the wheel also has the rim round the holes, but not the smaller hole where the spring clips for the hub cap are located. Peter have you also noted the internal structure of the spokes. All these wheels look to be cast, so the moulds for them must have been quite complex. Could they injection mould aluminium back then? Dave

You're an inspiration Rich. Thank you for sharing yet another epic build. The final result is a gloriously rusty beast of a machine. Dave

Enjoying your build from the back. The level of detailing on the inside is a delight. The undercarriage ain't bad either. You certainly deserve to be happy with how adding those windows has turned out. Excellent stuff. Dave

I hate to suggest this Peter but have you tried or taken a look at Blender as an alternative modelling tool? It would be possible to model the tire using it but it wouldn't be painless. I've been trying to get to grips with Blender for a while now myself and I needed a subject to learn with. So I've had a go at modelling the tire and cross tread pattern. It's helped me a lot as there is only so much you can get from YouTube videos without something to aim for. So this is what I've come up after a lot (and I mean a lot) of head scratching. Don't get too excited... it looks pretty but it's no where near perfect. I've no idea if it's 3D printable, I some how doubt it but your welcome to a copy of the .blend file. The tire is based on another reference I've found here on www.458bg.com that shows a version of the tire without the cross. It just has a plain square diamond pattern but it's also a clear image. For info the tread pattern is four blocks across with each alternate row offset by half a block and is repeated 36 times **. The edge half blocks have a grove in them to make the pattern on the side wall. Dave Edit :- (In case anyone fact checks this.) ** Having done more comparisons of this "small diamond/cross tread pattern" and a bit of maths I now believe the tread block is repeated 40 times round the circumference of the tyre.

Looking at the original photo of "Lope's Hope 3rd" the tire looks to have a different tread pattern to the diamond pattern seen on other P-51 Mustangs. The tread pattern on Lope's hope looks to have a tighter smaller diamond shape. Looking for other period examples of this tread pattern I think I've found a few. Top left is Lope's Hope. Bottom right is the "standard" diamond pattern. Top right and bottom left show the "small" diamond pattern. To my eye Lope's Hope matches this "small" diamond pattern. There are more blocks to the tread on the "small" diamond compared to the "standard" diamond. I've added the red lines in attempt to show Lope's Hope matches this "small" diamond tread pattern. Looking closely at the "small" diamond pattern the diamond looks to be rotated 90 degrees to the "standard" diamond and has small nicks cut in the sides. These nicks give the diamond a cross like shape. So is this small diamond actually the "cross" tread pattern? Peter this hopefully helps you work out how to model the tire. Dave

Peter a quick Google search came up with this photo of the 27" SC wheel. Is this Lope's Hope? I also found the following data on tires for the North American-P51-D. Main 27" SC Diam. 27.5" Sect. 9.75" Load 3300 psi 39 Rim Dia/Width 14"/9.75" Tail 12.5X4.5 Diam 12.35" Sect 4.6" Load 1800 psi 75 Rim Dia/Width 4.5"/3.63" But I can't find anything to verify the above. Dave Edit Looks like the 27" SC rim diameter is 14" not 14.9" as was quoted in the source I found. The source did quote the 27" SC rim as 14"/9.75 for other aircraft. John's post above has a photo showing the rim dia measures 14". So that confirms it for me.

Peter do you have access to the photos from the restoration of "Lope's Hope 3rd"? There are three YouTube videos of them, the third shows the cockpit framework at around 13:06. Aircraft P-51C 1943 restoration. Part 1 Aircraft P-51C 1943 restoration. Part 2 Aircraft P-51C 1943 restoration. Part 3 (Last) The floorboards are pictured here in these restoration updates July/August Lope's Hope Update August/September Lope's Hope Update The Aug/Sept update shows pictures of the rear of the cockpit under construction. This photo looks to be the fitted rear floor panel p/n 102-53054 complete with hoses under the seat. No idea if any of this can be seen or is it under the cloth/canvas cover John described.

Thanks for the comprehensive reply John. It looks like Peter will have a wealth of knowledge at his finger tips on this build. I see the restored C-10-NT has the dorsal fin kit fitted. Do we know if the original "Lope's Hope 3rd" also had it fitted. Some P-51Cs in China-Burma-India conflict did as shown in this photo on Wikipedia.

Good to see that you are back at the bench Peter. Great subject... a P-51C-5-NT with an interesting back story. The restored P-51C-10-NT by Aircorps Aviation does looks gorgeous as Lope's Hope. But I'm curious are the differences between the P-51C-5-NT and the P-51C-10-NT minor? Having studied the 1/5 scale P-51D Mustang at Cosford I'm looking forward to this... no pressure

You may find them in this P51 shapes thread on RCGroups. Not checked yet but the drawings look to have been printed in a magazine with his permission. But you could always contact Mr Neely (packardpursuit) and ask him direct. Dave

Impressed with the finish you have achieved. Looks the business. The way you have used of the two colours of foil certainly enhances the panels on the finished model. Thanks for sharing.

The #15 looks to have worked well on the masking. Enjoying the build Ced, even if they aren't both strictly OOB now.