WLJayne
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Posts posted by WLJayne
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Hi all, a bit of confusion that hopefully you can shed some light on. Some profiles and kits depict Haldy's Emil as an E-1 and others as an E-3. There are photos here and they but none that I can see who the wing detail or where the machineguns would be. Was this aircraft upgraded to E-3? Or was it never as E-1? Thanks in advance!
Will.
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On 2/22/2024 at 1:02 PM, ben_m said:
The PRU Mauve looks sensible given the mix instructions, but doesn't match the shade of grey in the black and white photo. So either the aircraft wasn't in this scheme, or the mix instructions aren't accurate for the colour used on this aircraft.
The oblique camera opening/radio hatch was not a standardised part in Type G's, 140 Squadron (that was formed from 1416 Flight in Sept 1941) were certainly had some bulged doors, as seen in this photo:
The July 1941 date is dubious for the photo of P9328, as there is snow on the ground, and trees have no leaves. My guess is this aricraft was technically in 140 Sqn at the time of the photo, but they hadn't change the squadron code letters to 140's ZW on this aricraft.
Thank you Ben! RE the mauve, it's so hard to tell from these B&W photos, all kinds of optical tricks can happen depending on what film was used and then the reproductions. I don't think we'll ever know for sure, the mauve is plausible in written sources and it's visually interesting so I think I'll throw my hat in that ring, but I think as others have mentioned, a MSG type colour might be just as plausible.
Yes the photo of P9328 is definitely some time in the winter of 41/42. It's unlikely that the markings and camo changed much in the months prior during crew training, so I think that a summer '41 date is ok to suit the Type G designation, which gives some variety. As always, nobody knows with certainty but as long as it lands within the boundaries of "probable" that's usually enough as a starting point. Likewise, I can't add an extra part for the bulged hatch, so a small decal for the camera lens works within the constraints I'm beholden to with the kit. It's quite possible they were fitted for some sorties and not others, what with range and speed being concerns.
Will.
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Here's the draft for X4784 and I'm fairly happy with it but open to feedback.
And the updated profile for P9328. I've tried to create a mauve by mixing 5 parts PRU pink, 2 parts PRU blue and 1 part signal red.
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Hello everyone, if I may revive this very old thread, I am currently checking my research for two PR Type G schemes. from reading through this thread, it seems that the evidence supports X9969 DP being EDSGrey and EDSGreen with PRU Mauve undersides. I agree with @Troy Smith that a red spinner seems incongruous and I would think that a black/night spinner is more likely? Also does anyone know who flew it?
As for markings, I'm seeing 30" MSG squadron codes with a 35" type B roundel on the fuselage, small fin flash, and standard 56" type B roundels on the upper wings. I have no sources for underwing roundels - possibly absent? Does that seem reasonable?
The other scheme I have chosen is X4784 ZW, I have very little information on this and if I hadn't already commissioned artwork on it I probably would have chosen another. But I'm a bit stuck with it now! Sources suggest PRU pink, 30" MSG codes, 35" type A fuselage roundel and 30" type A upper wing roundels. Basically the same as the better known R7059 LY. Any comments on this would be appreciated as I can accept slight inaccuracies on the artwork if we can correct them on the profile. I need to delete the radio mast too.
Will.
EDIT: I also managed to find a decent photo of X4784 ZW
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As per title, I am currently trying to work out which it is as web and book sources seem to disagree. It was fitted with the later style canopy when it was shot down (without the armour plate) though this doesn't really give much clue about what variant it was at the time.
I'd like to do the best I can to label it correctly in the instructions and decals of the upcoming single aircraft kit edition. Does anyone have any sources or insights? Many thanks, you are always very helpful!
Will.
EDIT: I've had some help on my Facebook page and I'm now convinced that it was an E-3 as built by Erla. Good thing as I won't have to update any of my artwork now!
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Thanks so much for all these replies!! So incredibly useful!
On 12/21/2023 at 8:01 PM, Peter Roberts said:I believe Red Roo may have covered Colyer’s a/c, so Ed may be along to help, or you may want to drop them a line?
I bought that set while researching the scheme and it's good, though I've interpreted some details differently.
On 12/21/2023 at 10:17 PM, Hornet133 said:@WLJayne
I was the person who supplied the info for the DK Decals of this scheme. The 'Rabbit' (actually more a 'Hare') was on both sides per attached. I have no proof that the flag was on both sides as the door is open on both images I have of the Port side but it likely was.
These were part of an extensive article that I did on 457 Sqn Spitfires in the UK in the IPMS (NSW) publication 'in miniature' issues 23/3 and 23/4 (available from ipmsnsw.com in the magazine link) back in about 2009.
Steve Mackenzie
That's brilliant! I will include the option for hare and flag on both sides, I think that seems reasonable.
On 12/21/2023 at 9:03 PM, tempestfan said:Forgive my ignorance if e.g. Mike Bowyer had this covered way back when (or @Paul Lucas) for this specific airframe - but is there any visual or verbal indication for Duck Egg Blue instead of Sky on Malan's machine?
As @Paul Lucas mentioned (he and I have discussed this in the past) duck egg blue is one of many plausible "sky" colours, and I like to vary what we use on profiles as I do think that there was little uniformity in undersides in this early period of the BoB :).
The Dark Sea Grey is an interesting option on Colyer's Spitfire. I'll test it, and if it looks good I'll make it the suggested colour - I'm sure this thread will turn up in searches when people query it haha! I do agree that it's somewhat unlikely that this colour would have been available so quickly at the Squadron level. So again, an interesting and unique scheme with a bit of story behind it is always nice!
Thanks again everyone!
Will.
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23 minutes ago, PatG said:
No idea if this is correct but I'd have thought the 'rabbit' would have been on the pilot access/port side on a Spitfire as personal markings were usually carried on the side that the pilot entered? This included such things as squadron leader pennants etc.
Pat.
Thanks Pat! I have a photo showing the starboard side of the aircraft with the rabbit emblem, I wondered if the image was mirrored but the patches are on the correct side of the Colyer's uniform so it can't be. But it's possible the marking was applied to both sides.
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Hello everyone! I've finally found some time to work on all the print designs needed for next spring's new releases for our 1/144 109s and Spitfires. This time we'll be doing reboxed editions containing all the variants we wanted to release initially but couldn't quite afford to.
Thanks so much for all your help with the profiles and artwork so far! I research as diligently as I can however small things still slip by me and you eagle eyed folks are so good at catching them! Today I have the two schemes that will be included with the Spitfire Mk.Ia Hangard Edition (i.e. a bagged single kit with no masks) and for this I've chosen a Battle of Britain scheme, and a later 1941 RAAF scheme just as the Mk.I was being upgraded or retired. Can you perhaps glance over them and give me your thoughts? I was only able to find a few photos of Colyer's Spitfire, and I don't know if they flag and rabbit motif were on both sides, so I've put the flag on both (as seen on some other 457 Spits) but only one side has the rabbit.
I look forward to your feedback, I appreciate it so much!
Will
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1 hour ago, Ngantek said:
Lovely work on this little kit. So much detail, chipping and weathering is really impressive. Love it!
Nice to hear what's going on at Beacon. I and I'm sure a lot of others have been keeping an eye out for news about what's in store for the future. IIRC you did a survey about maybe shipping single kits in baggies at one point?
All of those sound great, I guess BoB is going to contine be a focus in the foreseeable future? The only one I wonder about is an early hurricane, what with Sweet already having a very nice kit on the market. although of course I understand it fits well into sets with your existing and future aircraft.
Andy
Sweet's Hurricane kit is pretty much the gold standard very true. We've be delighted to be able to match it and we'll get as close as possible - though for now we don't have access to that kind of precision EDM tooling that I think they used, so we're somewhat limited by the size of CNC end mills available to us. However we're still confident that we can improve on the first two aircraft, which we were pretty happy with.
I can't see why an early Hurricane would not be possible, as with the other kits we'll try to squeeze as many option parts onto the frame as possible even if we can't launch the variants contained on it as their own sets right away with budget and development time constraints.
Yes the plan is for "flagship" aircraft to get a deluxe double set with masks and Cartograf decals etc, then a single aircraft bagged option of the same variant along with the others, with no masks (though they'll be available separatatey) and decals from another (though still good) printer. So for example in the next release there will be a double Spitfire Mk.Ia deluxe box, then bagged single sets of the early Mk.I, Mk.Ia, Mk.IIa/b and Mk.I PR Type G. It's just different instructions and decals really but it gives more choice and budget options.
Yes for now we want to focus on this collection of BoB aircraft, as the BoB is almost a self contained hobby and we think it could sell well for a long time, especially to those who want collect squadrons or build compact dioramas etc. The dream is to have ten aircraft from that period done, then we'll move on to something else. Hopefully as it all develops we'll be able to put more time and money into it. I could do a lot if I could afford to hire three other designers who were as good as Bryan!! But even the Wingnut Wings team was not large back in the day and now some of them went on to found Kotare which has been really exciting.
Will.
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Lovely build Adam!! My favourite part is the odd mottled panel, it's always interesting to see how people deal with that and I think you nailed it. The weathering is spot on as well.
On 12/12/2023 at 8:18 PM, Robin-42 said:Nice work, 1/144 is not my scale which didn’t stop from buying two! I dimly remember, part of their target market is gamers which led to a conscious decision to emphasize the panel lines. Strictly speaking there should be none visible in that scale, but that would lead to a slightly boring model.
That's true initially we hoped to court some gamers but we were always focused on scale modellers. The panel lines are something we hope to improve in future, we just left the gate with the dimensions that our toolmaker were 100% confident they could achieve, but we think we can get them a bit finer on future kits. Likewise the clarity of the 109 canopies is another bit of feedback we've had which again we'll do out best to improve in upcoming kits. But so far the responses have been overwhelmingly positive <3.
On 12/12/2023 at 7:39 PM, binbrook87 said:Very impressive! I actually don't think the panel lines look as bad on the 109 maybe due to the squarish nature of the aircraft. The Spitfire could be better but at least the shape is spot on...and it's the only early Spit model in town in this scale?
Being a fan of the smaller scale i really must have a go at a Beacon models kit as they need all the support we can give in order for them to expand their range into other BoB types. The rumours of what is planned is very nice indeed! Fingers crossed they get there with all their future releases🤞
There's a very old Revell tooling but otherwise this is the only MkI, and most certainly the only kit with options for the early production MkI, the earl Mk.II and Mk.I PR. The next releases will be all those variants, which is the range we had hoped to launch with but couldn't quite manage initially. As for what comes after that, it depends what we can do logistically. We are hoping that Bryan will be able to do some more design work in his spare time (this isn't a full time thing for Bryan, Mike and I yet) and I think that the logical next kits would be a Hurricane and Bf110 with all the variant trimmings (possibly Hurricane MkII on the frame etc!) Then I think we need to do something bigger, the thinking so far is He111 and a Defiant. We know that heavy bombers are probably what most of the market wants, so we'll build up those larger investment kits with some smaller but still popular ones. Ultimately this company is community funded, and has no investors and no bank loans, so although progress is going to be slower, it will mean we get to run Beacon the way we want to run it for modellers and not for stakeholders.
If we get as much support on the next Kickstarter campaign (which is really just pre-orders with fun bonuses and an introductory price) then I hope we'll be able to make significantly more progress on new kits in 2024!
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Hi all,
The new 1/72 laser cut dispersal hut is in production and a small initial batch is being made. You can reserve yours here:
https://beacon-models.com/product/1-72-raf-dispersal-hut/
Will.
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1 hour ago, europapete said:
Really cool! 1/48 and 1/32 also please
Those would be huge 😱!! Maybe one day!
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14 minutes ago, Mike said:
Yes we can
one of the members Reported it, which is the best way to get anything moved, deleted etc. 
A very nice hut it is too.
Thanks Mike!
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7 minutes ago, Work In Progress said:
Pretty model, but wrong forum, really, suggest you try https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/forum/534-ready-for-inspection-dioramas/
Ah you have a point there, my bad! Hopefully the admins can move it there perhaps.
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Hi all,
I recently finished building the laser hut RAF dispersal hut kit I designed, and I'm quite pleased with how it came out! I didn't go wild with weathering as it was mostly for photography, but it went together well and painted up nicely. Next I'm going to make a base for it and paint the figures, so I can display it at Scale Model World on the stand. I hope you like it!
Will.
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3 minutes ago, Black Knight said:
I would like to say, that after May 1940 until late autumn RAF personnel on the front lines wore a very mixed clothing
One of my uncles lost all his personal kit on evacuation from France at the end of May 1940,
Many people know of the great evacuation out of Dunkirk, but the RAF personnel also left through Boulogne and in my uncles case he and a lot of his squadron erks went via a small French fishing village.. They had to dump their suitcases and kit bags overboard to get more people on board the small boat. During that summer my uncle worked on supervising the turnarounds of fighters at Biggen,. He had to wear his 'best blues'. It wasn't until October he had a full kit again. And he had to buy it all
That makes a great deal of sense, supply problems were huge in the summer and I think that may well explain the mixed kit you see in photos. That's part of what makes the period so interesting, I suppose!
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1 hour ago, RAF4EVER said:
You do not need an excuse to watch it again
One of my favourite scenes:
That screenshot reminds me of an audio recording I heard, where William David recounts an attack on RAF Tangmere, where a Stuka attack killed the entire WAAF contingent while they were changing watch. Terrible.
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1 hour ago, RAF4EVER said:
or the obligatory dog
There is going to be a running dog! We already have one with an officer in the dispersal set, but that's a German Shepard so this one will be a Lab :D.
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2 minutes ago, Heather Kay said:
Damn straight! The almost complete lack of correctly dressed RAF ground crew for the early part of the war in any of the major scales is a great annoyance. I’d certainly buy a couple of sets, and a decent Albion kit would also be very welcome in 1/72nd. I have "constructed" the Matador kit - let’s not go there!
Yes the 1/72 Hillman Tilly has been the runaway success lately, so clearly that's something people like. It all helps as development of the plastic kit range in 1/144 will take a long time. So this really helps get the brand out there with products people like.
If the new laser cut dispersal hut works well, it will mean lots of other 1/72 airfield buildings are possible and I have a big list of things that would likely be desirable.
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Thanks all, absolute treasure trove of info! As much as I love the old Airfix box art, seems a bit like scuttling to the aircraft with a chute strapped to your bum was unlikely to have happened much if ever!
I have decided to do three different running pilots, one in flying coveralls and '36 boots, one in an Irvin jacket with boots and one in Service Dress with shoes. All wearing '32 life jackets of course, and wearing or carrying helmet, goggles an mask (B Type, MkIV and D Type respectively.) This gives a characterful mix of 1940 kit and all three pilots could quite plausibly be in the same flight.
I'm also having an officer and WAAF made both in Service Dress, and three ground crew wearing either coveralls or Suits Aircrew/War Service Dress, performing pre-flight preparation like refuelling and electrical supply etc. There will also be three RAF support trolleys commonly seen in photos (early type Acc,) as well as an Albion refueler. I'm hoping to have a modular blast pen vac formed in 1/144 which can be done as either a Kenley style E pen, or a single pen of no particular location but plausible enough - the E pen is rather large even in 1/144. The figures and Albion will also be available in 72 which I'm sure will please many of you.
Then of course I will need to do something similar for the Luftwaffe! I already have a list made but need to finish the research and sculptor's brief.
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1 hour ago, Ray_W said:
During the Summer of 1940, the left tailplane was the location. Plenty of images available like:
Also this video, see at 0.08 and 5:03. The convenience of the location I expect gave a visual clue that it was there and ready and convenient for the pilot to grab it and start strapping it on 2:16
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exbQfEHmTUU
Ray
Well done Ray, that's absolutely spot on!! I will get some made for that very purpose in that case.
Thanks everyone, I really appreciate all your inputs, as always.
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1 minute ago, R T Fishall said:
This one that could be useful on the parachute? Groundcrew holding them next to the aircraft waiting for the pilots; I think it's 1941, but presume the groundcrew would have picked it off the wing or out of the cockpit?
Really useful resources there thanks Richard!! I especially like that photo, it's almost certainly from 1941 but it's likely that routines remained the same after the July-September period - because they know it works!
This has definitely inspired me to have one of the ground crew figures waiting with a parachute, brilliant.
Will.
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25 minutes ago, tempestfan said:
As all Hurris have the Watts and the centre photo Munich-style roundels, possibly the Summer of 39? Not sure when the Watts was (started to be) replaced, but I'd guess in late 39. @Troy Smith will surely be able to give a proper datation.
Yes I noticed that, it's possible that these are photos of drills hence why they're all so kitted up. The last photo seems most likely to be from the BoB (it's labelled as oct '40) as some are wearing Service Dress or Suits Aircrew and they're all carrying their masks. I think that's the photo I'm inclined to take as inspiration.
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Correction, there are a few photos showing the chutes being worn to the aircraft, however it seems like a '40 pattern coverall flying suit is worn in most photos showing this. In some photos it's a real mixed bag of worn kit! Makes it quite interesting as I could do three figures wearing quite different kit and it would be entirely plausible.
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Hans Schmoller-Haldy's Condor Legion Bf109 - E-1 or E-3??
in Aircraft Interwar
Posted
I think it may have been the same photo someone found for me showing very clearly the lack of FF canons in the wings, so I am now certain it's an E-1 too :). Eduard's profile is very accurate I think.