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  1. That's really helpful thanks Jack! So if there's no photo that shows the actual pattern on White Outline 12, it would be reasonable enough to deduce one that's based on all the others. There are quite a few in the Wingleader book, enough to make a good guess I think.
  2. That's the same photo as the one I was referring to in the Wingleader book :). I think that Bevan probably used that profile of White 8, but checked it against this photo and kept the original splinter camo under the the RLM02, but that's just a hunch. This may end up being one of those cases where "nobody really knows but this proposed pattern is as plausible as anything else."
  3. Hi all! I have chosen this aircraft as one of our potential E-1 schemes as it's interesting and fairly brush painter friendly. The aircraft has a profile in both Wing Leader Photo Archive Me109 Units Part 3, and also the same profile in Kagero JG53 "Pik As" booklet, both of which I have. However for the life of me I can't find any photos of this aircraft's wing camo pattern and there is no plan view profile that I can find. The photos of several JG 53 Emils in WPA Part 3 show the factory applied RLM70 and RLM71 splinter scheme which has been overpainted by various patterns of RLM02 and they don't appear to follow a standard (other than the factory applied pattern below the RLM02.) There is a profile below of "White 8" which appears to be based on the photo on page 8 of WPA Pt3, where the pattern of RLM02 appears correct however they have omitted the RLM71 which I don't think is correct especially looking at the photo of White 8's wing where you can see the 70/71 contrast. Bevan Brooks did a very nice model of White Outline 12, and the RLM02 pattern looks like it's taken from White 8 but has the original RLM70/71 splinter patter showing through the gaps in the RLM02, which you would expect. https://www.largescaleplanes.com/articles/article.php?aid=2830 Unless I have missed a photo of White Outline 12 in one of the books I have or the websites I have visited, it seems that the wing camo pattern on that particular aircraft is anyone's guess. Does anyone know of a reference photo, or would bit be better to make an "educated guess" at the pattern? Thanks all!
  4. I think as with almost all of these, we can never really know. But as long as the scheme presented is plausible, then that's a good starting point for most modellers I think
  5. Those are very useful sources! Many thanks! It does seem like this has all of the parts that were added to the Emil in E-7 variants.
  6. It will but I think it'll look good even if brush painted. The other scheme in the box will be a bit less involved, but I'm trying to create as much variation and interest across the Emil range as we can :). I notice airfix has done this scheme as an E-7. Hopefully someone will be able to clear this up!
  7. Hi everyone, I'm trying work out some details about this aircraft. Some sources say it's an E-7, other an E-4. It was flown by Lt. Paul Steindl of II./JG54 in 1941. There is a lot of conflicting information on this aircraft, and as I would like to represent this scheme on our E-7 box, I want to make sure that it indeed is (or was converted to) and E-7. Also some schemes show it with yellow trailing edges, some without. It doesn't feature in any of the books I have, so if anyone can point me in the right direction that would be wonderful. Thanks so much all ! EDIT: I found another image below, it appears to be from a French book claiming that this aircraft was an E-4/B or E-7, and took part in Operation Marita in April 1941. Seems pretty reliable?
  8. I thought it would be good to post an update in this thread. We've received some test shots for the 109, but the tool has some alignment issues that are being seen to. But overall we're very happy with the result and we're looking forward to doing some test builds. Full image album here https://imgur.com/a/ScpIbiF
  9. Hi all! We just got some test shots through the post and I couldn't wait to get them photographed and show them to you! We're so pleased with these, however the development has not been without drama! The mould tool that made these has actually been scrapped, because as some of you eagle-eyed folks will see there is a very slight misalignment between the halves which has caused some flashing. The toolmaker wasn't happy with it and couldn't fix it, and they cut the tool again for free !! So our production plastic sprues will be ever better quality with sharper part lines than what you see here! However the surface details and features show up very well, and we hope that you're as excited to see them as we are! Now we will move on to cutting the Spitfire and canopy tools. We're hoping to be able to ship all pre-orders in spring, though we can't confirm an exact date yet. Thank you for sticking with us on this journey! Full album here: https://imgur.com/a/ScpIbiF
  10. Excellent tips there thank you so much Colin! I'm only just beginning to get to grips with Emil schemes so there's a lot of catching up for me to do to get it right. Many of you are far more knowledgeable than I on this
  11. Hi all! Starting to think about box art and profiles for our 109s and I thought I'd start with the Trops. I've been trying to find colourful Trop schemes for the Emil, and came across this one, I think it fits the bill. I'll keep looking but I'll try to find out more about this one. Let me know what you think !
  12. Do you mean these ones? Here's a photo for comparison to their profile (the smaller fin flash of the Spitfire cropped out belongs to DW-O.) The aircraft I'm representing (in the bonus 610 Sqn decal set at least) is P9502 DW-Q, flown by F/O Warner. Their profile is R6891 - a later DW-Q. Their P9495 DW-K looks pretty good, interestingly showing No.1 Sky Blue as well. I would very much like to know which "documentation" they uncovered that gave evidence of this colour being applied to aircraft based at RAF Gravesend at this time, but I have no reason to doubt that it wasn't the case - it's at least very plausible. Also, I fiddled with the contrast on that photo and as you can see, at least on DW-J and DW-H, the squadron codes were overpainted by the new underside colour. It appears to be the same on aircraft in the background but the resolution isn't high enough to be absolutely sure. However, given that the Air Ministry order of the 27th April decreed that squadron codes were to be applied as seen, and the new undersides were introduced later in June, it seems reasonable that all the squadron codes that were applied earlier were partially overpainted in June resulting in what we see here:
  13. I think this is why it's a good idea to have something like a QR code on the instructions that takes people who a webpage that goes over some of this and explains why we made the creative choices that we made, but gives people a choice in how they want to represent it. But for those doing a weekend build who don't really mind, they can use whichever paint they think is closest. Ultimately what I'm really enjoying about actually producing these models is how much history is tied into it and it's making me see why the BoB is almost a hobby within the hobby, and our products can reflect that. EDIT: Oh I see that a compendium of Paul's articles will be on sale at Telford!! Wonderful! I'll most definitely pick up a copy. I've been in touch with Gary and if possible I'll get the chance to have a chat with Paul too. I think we'll be in good hands!
  14. I did mean 1940, sorry! The Blenheim sky may have been similar, I saw something about it in the book earlier. I'll paraphrase into some key points: - Prior to the war, Sidney Cotton flew covert photo recon flight over Germany, these aircraft were painted "a very pale green colour" - Bomber command heard about these low-profile PDU Blenheims at Heston and sent a Blenheim from 139 Sqn to be modified similarly, which was dark green and dark earth with "light sea green" undersurfaces, all paints were reportedly very glossy. - Bomber command was most impressed with this Blenheim and began applying "blue-grey" shades to many of its Blenheims flying over France in 1939. These appear to be a motley collection of colours possibly including factory applied Sky or Eau De Nil shades. - The Air Ministry also heard about this and inspected the Blenheim at Heston, the underside colour being described in the RAE report as "Duck Egg Green termed 'Camotint.'" It was claimed that this Duck Egg Green rendered the aircraft almost invisible above 10,000 ft. - The glossiness was a concern, and the it was requested that the RAE supply suitable paint that was colour matched but smoother and less glossy. - Bomber command ordered a large quantity of this paint, which manufacturers couldn't meet due to demand. Therefore an interim solution to the shortage of "Type S" paint was to supply pre-war spec DTD 63A which had the glossy finish. - The air ministry wrote to Bristol in April 1940 stating "It is agreed that you should call on the schedule for Mod 864 on the Blenheim IV for Laquer to DTD 63 with reduced gloss.....As regards colour, the pale blue green which has been called Camotint is now defined as Standard Sky and this description should be given in your schedule." - Colour matching between factories was spotty, Bristol built Blenheims had the correct paint match however Rootes built Blenheims were finished in a different colour described as "rich duck egg green" which may have been BSS 381 (1930) No. 16 Eau De Nil. So that appears to be the genesis of Sky at least. How that relates to the colour of the 610 Spitfires is unclear - but I'm left with the distinct impression that after the 6th June Air Ministry order and until late 1940 when stores were more available, "Sky" was a pale greenish blue just do what you can. I just wish we had more direct evidence for 610 Sqn, but I'm happy enough to go wish the Lucas research when taken in context of the earlier history of Sky. What do you think?
  15. I can't confirmed it with cast iron confidence, however I have one book (the On Target BoB Special) that states this, though the Wingleader book simply mentions Sky without going into details. I've been looking around on this forum too and one of the reasons I gave weight to the OT book's claim is that the photo was taken on June 26th, and the order to move to Sky undersides was sent out on the 6th. This aircraft was delivered earlier in the year with factory painted night and white, so it would have been overpainted by whatever passed for "sky" at this point in time, and it seems reasonable that there may not have been a ready availability of the standard later Sky shade which seems to have become standard in the autumn of 1940 as the factory finished sky Spits made their way to the front lines. Furthermore I found a reference here quoting the FlyPast Battle of Britain special: "Research, conducted in the late 1990s by Paul Lucas and others, on surviving artefacts, shows that in addition to the official Sky colour 'Eau-de-Nil' (No.16), and Sky Blue (No.1) were found on many artefacts. There was also significant evidence of a Sky Grey, sometimes overpainted with one of the Sky colours." Additionally: "Michael JF Bowyer said many years ago 'During May home-based fighters began to wear new under surface colours. Silver was certainly applied to some aircraft, evident on Spitfires in June. Predominant were pale shades of Blue, but some Hurricanes I saw at Debden and Duxford had deep blue undersurfaces. These variations were presumably due to the fact that dope was mixed at the stations. Usually the Sky tint , which was meant to be blue, was more accurately a pale shade of green caused by about a 4% addition of yellow to the mix. At the time it was commonly referred to as duck egg green, but it later revceived the official and less accurate designation of Duck Egg Blue. later the shade was re-named Sky.'" However there are a boat load of thread on this issue here and on FSM and elsewhere all quoting different sources - no one really seems to know for sure and I was indeed warned about "the sky problem" when we started haha! So as long as it's plausible, and it's interesting and a little bit different, I'm fairly comfortable in suggesting it as an option. but of course, modellers can use whatever shade of sky they prefer !
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