bobsyouruncle

There are so many variables with the light and shadows when looking at objects in photographs. I came across this 'illusion' about a year or so ago, when discussing F-15C camouflage colours with a decal manufacturer. It's good for showing the effects of surrounding colours on the colour you're trying to pinpoint. I didn't believe it was the same shade until I cut a square of colour from one area and physically moved it onto the other one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Checker_shadow_illusion

Tanmodel, if you're listening, please also don't do the Airfix thing of seemingly 'straightening out' the canopy bottom edges/cockpit sides. Please keep the curves in. Thanks Bob.

Hi Andrew, thanks for drawing my attention to that. One of the things I love about researching a model project is that you find out so much about the real thing. I've just been looking at Andy Whites excellent Buccaneer website (see link below) http://www.blackburn-buccaneer.co.uk/0_Contents.html From this I think we're talking about 'Mod 1059' which Andy says was apparently introduced to reduce noise in the cockpit. Was it just early photos of these aircraft you were talking about? I've just looked at photos of the aircraft you've listed and can see the fairings on three of them in later photos (XN974, XT286 and XW986) but have seen one earlier shot of XV153 without them. Cheers Bob. Just a quick edit:- Reading on further on Andy's website (see link to page here) http://www.blackburn-buccaneer.co.uk/Pages3_files/Detailing_Index.html? It's here referred to as Mod 1044. It says S2s 1965 to 1968 didn't have the fairings and S2s from late 1968 onwards did have them. What a treasure trove of information that site is.

Nice to see Tanmodel, very nice to see. Please keep it coming. Want at least one. Great looking fuselage shape and probe, etc. I realise that you're in the design phase and that it might be an optical illusion here, but in case it's not and no one else mentions it, I just wanted to remind you (I'm sure you probably know already) that the bulged fairings on the fuselage sides inboard of the engine intakes start forward of the intakes themselves (roughly in line vertically with the bottom of the centre partition in the canopy). They appear slightly set back here (like I said could be an illusion). Also, if you do want it to be a really super rendition, please, please do the offset seats and offset MDC in the canopy? Thanks, Bob.

That looks completely stunning. Beautiful job.

Nice job on the cockpit and great to see that someone else has thought it worthwhile to add a radar 'boot'. Will be watching.

Having had my ears pricked up and mouth drooling ever since the first announcement this kit was coming, I'm really pleased to see little snippets appearing which confirm it's still on track. I'm really encouraged by the nice look of the airbrakes if they're sampled from the 48th scale kit (I realise that there are a lot of 72nd scale fans here but I'm really happy with 48th). One thing it's made me realise looking at these holes in the airbrakes is to cross check which machine I'm building, as some of them don't have all the holes (notably the second ones out from the centre on the bottom row -although the machine I want to build does). Keep up the great work Tanmodel. Looking forward to seeing it on the shelves. If you're listening to markings option requests, please consider including this later - less simplified style of 12 Sqn Fox head (I've not seen any available in 48th scale decals) as on XX900, here seen at Mildenhall, 1993. Cheers Bob.

I came across this today, which seems to back up what's been said here and I've linked to it here for anyones interest. The Irving starts to feature on page 22. I must admit I hadn't even considered the khaki coloured battledress top until Chris mentioned it and this article covers that one too. Cheers Bob. https://www.aerosociety.com/Assets/Docs/Publications/The Journal of Aeronautical History/2014-01_Rood_Aircrew_clothing.pdf

Hi Chris, many thanks for taking the time and trouble to look through your photos for this. Yes, as you say, must just be one of those things that every photographer chose to shoot the left side of the aircraft at the time. Interesting information about the Typhoon photos too and what you say about the distance of the vertical stroke from the roundel (similar sounding to the 'W' positioning on EJ714 - perhaps slightly less so on 'G'); another 'trait' of your 'phantom dyslexic painter'? Thanks very much for all the help on this, especially with the information that '648' went right back to August with the Squadron. Yes R-JJ it shall be then. Fascinating to even just skim the surface of this subject. Big thanks again, much appreciated. Bob.

Excellent. Thanks very much for that. I went looking through most of my books and every photo I found of a fighter pilot in the cockpit wasn't wearing an Irvin, but I wanted to check here. Much appreciated, thanks.

This is one of those questions which sounds so silly that I'm starting to regret asking it even as I write it, but I just haven't found photo evidence yet to give me the answer. Anyway, here goes... so I'm modelling a Tempest with the pilot in circa Jan 45, Holland, (snow on the ground). I realise that the Irvin 'flying' jacket must have been called a 'flying' jacket for 'flying' reasons, but I've not seen any photos of a Tempest pilot sat in the cockpit actually wearing one despite best efforts. I've seen plenty of shots of the pilots standing on the ground wearing them, though. I've no idea how good the heating was in a Tempest cockpit, or how cramped they were with parachute and all and my question is simply 'would a pilot in this period be more likely dressed in a Irvin for flying, or in his battledress top? I've seen quite a few shots of them dressed in just the battledress, sat in their cockpits but none in obvious winter conditions. Thanks for bearing with me on this.

Hi anyone who might be interested in this again, Just a quick addition to this thread regarding the positioning of the 'JJ' codes on the starboard side of the aircraft. In my last post, I was more inclined to think that it'd be 'possibly more likely' (not committing here) that the 274 sqn Tempests had switched to having the 'JJ's tail side of the roundel on the starboard side (as opposed to the earlier way with it arranged nose side of the roundel - as on W-JJ EJ714 in the Oct '44 photo) by late January/February. Chris, are you still there? If you are, you know how I was wondering if that was one of the last photos of them with the codes that way around?... I since came across this shot (trying to find clues in the backgrounds of other photos) courtesy of the Imperial War Museum online photo collection, see IWM (MH 27463) linked to here, as it is a free to share for non-commercial purposes:- http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205094385 As you can see, you can enlarge this one with the 'plus' sign in the corner and on the right is a 274 sqn machine with the 'JJ' codes clearly positioned forward of the roundel. There's no date given for this photo but it does say the Typhoon was 'wrecked on return to base' 22nd February 1945, making it at least after that date. A real shame that the other code letter's obscured by the cannon access doors hanging down like that (I wonder if there was a sequence of shots taken). I'm now wondering just how many photo examples exist showing the other ('standard way around') arrangement of the code on the starboard sides before the war's end? I guess it would make sense to just change the parts of the aircraft with paint that you have to when the January orders came in (busy enough already)? As you intimated Chris, I'm guessing again that the original aircraft would leave the codes the original way around (and it would 'probably' only revert when a replacement comes in)? I also found the thread Chris, where you say that there are only confirmed codes in this 'earlier' style on W-JJ, G-JJ and J-JJ. I've still not found the J-JJ shot, despite searching. G-JJ was still flying on 26th Jan 1945 so that would fit into the timeframe I was after as a possible model subject. I'm now thinking JJ-R would be more likely to be R-JJ, starboard side. Cheers Bob.

Hi again, yes, I'm still here (just couldn't answer as was on night shift on the ambulances - just got up now for another session tonight). Brilliant. Thanks very much for that, Chris, very much appreciated. Sounds like you've got 274 squadron all sorted out then, more or less. Gingerbob, yes I know what you mean and errors do have that habit of creeping in. I'm most probably going to do JJ-'R' I think then and aim for a 'Jan-February 45' look and sit it on a snowy base, hopefully. (perhaps with the 'erk' sat on the wing to imitate that Hibbert shot in your book, Chris). I'll keep my eyes open in case any more photos turn up anywhere showing the 'JJ' coding placements on the stbd sides in that time slot. Incidentally, in the famous shot of the pair taking off from Kluis on the Sommerfield matting, has anyone ever worked out if the one on the right is 'R', a 'B' or a 'P'? Chris, please let us know if a 2nd TAF series reprint happens will you? (as I missed out on two). Very big thanks again. Bob.

Thanks very much for the input, Gents, much appreciated. Ossington, yes I've got that book myself but very kind of you to list those for me, thank you very much. As you can see from your list in the book and as you rightly say yourself, the squadron letter codes were swapped onto different aircraft at different times, with some being lost and others replacing them, etc. (which is why we've got two 'K's, two 'W's and two 'N's listed there). Here's a list I've compiled so far solely by cross-matching the logs of Spence and Penny to the Sqn Operational Record Books January to April 1945 (yes I paid to see them undistorted). Obviously others are listed in books. As in your list, some squadron letters appear twice. I've listed the Month they match log against serial number (as Chris says, there may be errors in the logs/ORBs and I might have made some myself too). Just for interest:- JJ-A January 1945 EJ775 April 1945 EJ772 JJ-B April 1945 EJ865 NV922 JJ-C March 1945 EJ779 April 1945 " JJ-D April 1945 NV665 JJ-E January 1945 EJ764 April 1945 NV762 April 1945 SN181 (+) JJ-G April 1945 EJ989 April 1945 NV697 (*) JJ-H February 1945 EJ751 JJ-K March 1945 NV697 (* also appears as G in April above) April 1945 JJ-M February 1945 NV722 March 1945 NV660 JJ-R February 1945 EJ648 JJ-S April 1945 SN181 (+ also appears as E in April above) JJ-T January 1945 EJ688 JJ-U February 1945 EJ687 JJ-W February 1945 EJ771 JJ-X January 1945 EJ781 JJ-Z February 1945 NV705 There will be more aircraft serials that match letters that I've not included here of course, but if anyone spots any errors with what I have listed could they please let me know? Hi Chris, thanks very much for your information. I'd been delving into two of your books looking for info ('Typhoon and Tempest Aces of WW2' and 'Tempest Squadrons of the RAF') and have often wished I'd have got your Vol 3 on the 2nd TAF before they disappeared (was hoping for a reprint one day). Thanks very much also for 'doing' the log and coming up with the same conclusions, much appreciated. Another google search has brought up another reference to 'R' being EJ648, which was in 'Aces High' by Christopher Shores and Chris Williams (you get mentioned in the acknowledgements), under 'Hibbert'. Sources aren't listed but it says Hibbert got a 109 in 'R' (EJ648) on 17th Dec 1944. It also lists his Ju88 as being whilst in 'W' (EJ771) on 21st Feb 1945. Those two machines were the ones I was particularly interested in (W and R). I've delved back as far as Oct 1944 to see when EJ714 would have stopped being the previous 'W' (with the 'JJ's positioned nose side of the roundel on the starboard side in that photo). That machine flew to Volkel on the 11th Oct and doesn't appear in the sqn ORB after that date (there's the IWM photo of it taxiing at Volkel CL1452, with the workers in front of it, still coded 'W' but the wing obscures the 'JJ' area. The spinner is a lighter shade than black in this but darker than sky. Another large photo in 'Typhoon and Tempest at War' by Reed and Beamont - pages 146 and 147 - shows a very similar aircraft with the same foreground and workers (same aircraft??) and I can't make out any JJ where it should be on this). EJ771 arrived at Volkel on the next day (12th Oct) from Manston listed as a 'new' aircraft in the ORB so was well timed to get coded 'W'. I've had a fairly good search but as you say I can't find many photos at all of that first part of the year. Am I correct in thinking that the last shot seen with the JJs on the nose side of the roundel (stbd side) is that one of EJ714? The only photo I have seen so far of a 274 machine in this period is the one credited to Hibbert in January from your books with them taxiing in the snow at Volkel (which I like very much but no codes are visible). Looking at how the JJs eventually switched to the 'normal' side of the roundel and looking at how 486 Sqn did the same, I'm hoping that they might have switched them earlier in the year, rather than later (I know it's just hoping), perhaps when either swapping for a replacement aircraft (such as replacing the old EJ714 'W') or having a new one arrive (such as EJ771 in Oct) or on the 3rd Jan markings change perhaps? EJ648 was there throughout from beginning Oct to Feb 25th when it gets flown by Spence and then no longer appears in the ORB. It seems to have been coded 'R' as far back as December when Hibbert got his 109 and so should still have been when Fairbanks got his Doras with it on 22nd Feb. It's just as you say knowing what side the JJs were on. The replacement 'W' for the one Spence was shot down in on the 28th Feb, would presumably have been 'Clostermanns' EJ893 which is first seen in the ORB with Hibbert doing a cannon test on 5th March? Thanks very much again for all your help with this, anyway, much appreciated. Cheers Bob.

Hi Gents, I've been trying to do some digging regarding matching squadron codes to serial numbers for this period with the idea of using one of them as the subject for my Special Hobby model and would be grateful if someone could let me know if I'm right with this or have got it wrong please? I was cross matching F/O Spence's log codes to the squadron record books for February, so would I be right in thinking that:- At this time EJ771 would be JJ-W? - (listed as 'W' in Spence's log both on the 26th and 28th Feb, and the machine he was shot down in; also flown on 21st by S/L Fairbanks and F/L Hibbert - who got a Ju88 with it). At this time EJ648 would be JJ-R? - Spence logs 1.35 in 'R' on the 25th that matches the sqn record for him in EJ648 . (His log states he spent 25 mins on air test in 'U' as well but this is not listed in the record book at all and the previous 'U' - EJ687- that he flew on the 6th was lost on the 21st with F/O Day). I believe that S/L Fairbanks used this one on the 22nd against two Dora 9s? If the codes are correct, am I right in thinking that at this period in Feb, it was the C1 roundels on the upper wing surface, with the black spinner and no tail banding. Also that the JJ on the stbd side of the aircraft was tailside of the roundel (unlike some in photos in Sept 44)? Thanks very much in advance for any inputs/corrections. Bob.

I've been enjoying catching glimpses of the work in progress and now wow! Absolutely superb job. Beautiful model, simply fantastic.

Thanks very much for the encouraging comments, gents. Another very small update. I'd been wanting to experiment with the brass etched deck to see how much is visible through the gaps 'between planks' from above for a while and how the fit would be. The brass on its own feels very fragile. This is the foredeck with some added strips for rigidity (added more or less at random in between the gaps). I sprayed some dark grey paint into the interior. The baffles that I've added to the inside of the vents are not all the same perfect shape or size but should do the job from the outside (on the real thing some were this shape and others were 'U'-shaped). I also added a paint layer onto the underside of the brass deck and to a 'sub deck' that I made. I'm still not quite decided as to whether to remove the half painted brass non-slip studded bow plate before modifying it or not (although I think it'll be easier with it removed). The studded plates are of a different pattern to those found on the U-889, so these will be amended using Archer surface details. I'm also going to be using some of these on the outside of the hull. This is a loose fit of the brass foredeck minus the sub-decking layer. The fit is very good (or will be when glued in to place). Inconveniently for me, the hatches supplied (originally for U-534) have a different stud pattern to those on the U-889 so these will have to be changed first. Not much can be seen through the slats between planks except for the vents on the far side. The deck does still seem to feel fragile like this though. Here is the brass again but with the sub-deck added. Although you're supposed to see the framework of the sub and the pressure hull through these gaps, in photos the overall impression is one of a dark space and I think with the trade off between the fragility of the unsupported deck and overall effect in scale taken against reality, then this might be the better option? I'll think about this a little whilst doing the schnorkel bay (which will also take some thinking about). Cheers Bob.

Looks awesome so far and I love all the modelling skills on show here. Will be watching and learning from this.

Looks stunning so far. Really like the look of these Corvettes with the camouflaged hulls. Enjoying watching the progress.

Just thought I'd post to show I've not given up on this at all, just slow while I work out how to do stuff. Because there's not a conversion to the U-889 I'm having to think out alterations to try and solve modification challenges. Since I last posted, it won't look like much has changed but I've been doing the destructive surgery phases on the outer hull to allow for more pleasant detailing later hopefully. I couldn't see the strip that Revell have below their hull vents on any period photos so I removed all of that. What I could see was a comparable strip running along the top of all the hull vents so I added that instead. This IXC/40 boat has two sets of bow vent fairings which are distinctive in shape so I set about making these from the two similar items in Revell's U-190 kit (that normally cover the rear two hull vents on either side - I won't need them as mine will be underwater at that point). Deck only sat loosely in place as that will be replaced. Again I couldn't resist a quick 'dip' in the sea to see how the overall thing might look. Anyone spot the error I've made with the mods so far below? Answer further down this post.* The rcsubs bow etch has non-slip studs that were different to what I'm after and a pattern of holes needed to be drilled out. I positioned the holes using Tamiya 1mm masking graph paper (handy for this). I thought I'd have a go at removing the existing studs, drilling the holes and then adding my own using a 'push from the other side' method. Here's what that looked like on the boat but I wasn't happy with the irregular 'lumpy' look so removed it again and will add Archer surface detail rivets instead. I wanted to do something with the inside of the diesel exhaust (as you can look into it) so boxed it off like this. This is a lid for it (upside down). This is it when put together. I needed the top edge flush with the moulding for my etched deck 'sandwich'. I wanted to replicate the bulged topline rail on the hull side that goes alongside the schnorkel bay. This meant cutting out another piece of hull (feels wrong doing this destructive stuff), to allow me to insert a new profile topline (the white bit). *Here's the answer to the question at the start. I'd foolishly put the blanks in the hull side vents on the wrong side of the boat, so had to remove them again and put them in this side instead (as here). On the far side of the boat you can see some baffles that I've put in to view from the outside. Some should be U-shaped on the real thing but you won't see that when it's done. That's all for now. Hope to have more to show next time. Cheers Bob.

Amazing job you've done on this boat. I'm very impressed with all the extras you've built and the weathering is superb. Very inspirational. i'm taking notes.

Great looking boat and am amazed how quickly you've got it all done. Great job.

Tragic story and an awesome piece of modelling.

Cheers. Hi TristanR, I'm basically trying to follow the techniques laid out here by Chris Flodberg :- http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=155661 Put simply, you either carve, sand or melt waveforms into a sheet of styrofoam. On top of this, you layer small irregular shaped pieces of tissue paper overlapping each other (try to avoid straight edges) and then paint. Cover this surface with layers of high gloss acrylic varnish to add smoothness, reflectivity and depth. The wake is added using rayon 'cotton wool' and acrylic medium or varnish. I tried it on a spare bit of styrofoam first for a test run. I also mailed Chris for when not sure about something and he's been very helpful with his replies. Cheers Bob.

Hi, I was browsing around the Telford Scale Model World the other year and the Revell 72nd scale Type IX kit (U505) caught my eye. Not made a boat before but the size really impressed me and I liked the look of all the details. I was originally going to build this one as the U-534 (with a few mods as that's a IXC/40 with the later wooden deck), but decided at some stage that the U-889 had more actual period reference photos available, so went with that. The 889 was unique in that it has the Zwiebel mounted in/on the bow. Besides the Revell U-505 kit, I'm adding parts from their U-190 kit and RCsubs brass along with some of my own mods. Still in the early stages but here's some progress so far. Not done much with the hull yet. I started to add a very basic representation of the pressure hull and the 'shelves' which form the tops of the side vents. I started to cut out the extra vents in the hull for the IXC/40 and have moved some too. I also started adding the small 'baffles' which sit on the 'shelves' and are visible in the vents. I also added the makings of a 'Zwiebel' bow with milliput (detail to be added later). Before I got really into the hull details though, I wanted to get the sea sorted out of the way. To that end, I sliced the hull down to below waterline and used that as a template to cut a shape in the styrofoam base and carved some wake into it. I'm now working on the the sea surface itself, for which I'm using Chris Flodberg's method of collaged tissue paper and acrylic varnish with rayon 'cotton wool' for the wake. So this is where I am at the moment although the sub is separate and not usually in it's spot (I was just checking out the overall effect) so I can detail it separately. I am having some fun with this as like I say ships/boats are new to me but I hope it will come together in the end ok. Very absorbing and I think it'll be a while before I get back onto the Lightning F6 aircraft (which has been tucked away while this is going on). Cheers Bob.