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Dana Bell

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Posts posted by Dana Bell

  1. Hi Dennis,

     

    You said the magic word lacquer - I suspect you're facing the same painting problem that affected manufacturers of the real aircraft.  Lacquer will etch the surface beneath it (which is why it works so well on plastics) but doesn't play well with other types of paint.  You can spray lacquer over lacquer, but not over dope or enamel.  You can spray dope over dope, but not over lacquer or enamel.  You can spray enamel over anything you want.  (In modeling terms, water-based paints can be treated like enamels -- they'll spray over anything without damaging the underlying surface, but you can't overspray them with lacquers.)  It appears your lacquers attacked your hairspray and (perhaps) your basecoat.

     

    When Goodyear took over Lend-Lease Corsair production for Britain, several Briggs outer wing panels arrived camouflage in enamels to match the FAA patterns and colors.  By this time Goodyear was painting all of its FGs Glossy Sea Blue.  The company received BuAer's permission to overspray the enamels with GSB lacquers - within months the enamels, the underlying doped basecoats, and the fabric portions of the wings themselves were all failing.  Oops.

     

    Light sandpaper should clean away your problem.  I too like spraying lacquers (no better finish in the world) and have had some luck using the old Magic Mask for simulated chipping.  Any rubber cement might work just as well for you, but give your choice a test before working on your model.  I like what you've done so far - despite a setback, it doesn't look like your efforts have been ruined.

     

    Cheers,

     

     

    Dana

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  2. Hi Pierpaolo,

     

    Looking good - I particularly like your salmon mix.  One note before you glaze over the rear-view tunnels: you might want to paint that area beneath the glass with camouflage paint rather than Dull Dark Green.  That section was considered part of the exterior and painted accordingly.

     

    Cheers,

     

     

    Dana

    • Like 2
  3. Hi Colin,

     

    My records only cover the -1 thru -1D versions of the Corsair.  Vought experimented with several alternatively skinned components, but standardized Alclad everywhere except:

     

    Ailerons and tabs -- plywood (with fabric-covered plywood on some early aircraft)

     

    Rudders and elevators -- fabric-covered aluminum structure

     

    Outer panel flap -- aluminum structure and leading edge, fabric skin aft of leading edge.  Lower skins were subsequently  metal covered when rockets were mounted.

     

    Wings -- after sections of outer panels were fabric all the way to the outer edges of the wing tips (which matters if you're painting the dopes surfaces a different tone than the aluminum surfaces).  When rockets were mounted, a metal plate covered sections of the fabric skin.

     

    Hope this helps,

     

    Cheers,

     

     

    Dana

     

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  4. Hi Colin,

     

    You're off to a great start.  Just a heads up on two items:

     

    -- There should be no skin on the upper wing aft of the open gun bays.  If you send me your e-mail address I can send you some detail pix to help with the build.  (Don't forget that the flap aft of the guns lock straight down to ease access.)

     

    -- While most of the Corsairs used a coat or two of untinted zinc chromate, the cockpit would be the exception.  You may wish to pop a coat of Interior Green (black + zinc chromate) in there before you seal that up.  (It looks pretty good as is, but you may find it a bit too bright once the model's done and it's too late to change anything.)

     

    Cheers,

     

     

    Dana

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  5. I’m aware of two versions of VS-34900, the camouflage and markings drawings for British Corsairs.  The original drawing (which I’ve never seen) was dated April 1943; the first revision (“A” revision) released that October notes that the drawing was “Brought up to date.”  It appears the only differences involved switching from the birdcage canopy to the blown one.  I don’t believe there was a subsequent drawing of FAA camouflage, though I’m sure there was a Goodyear drawing of FAA markings for Glossy Sea Blue Corsair IVs.

     

    As I’ve noted earlier, the drawings call out three camouflage colors: Dark Olive Drab duPont 1071-028, Sea Gray duPont 71-19324, and Sky duPont 71-021.  While everything I’ve seen says the FAA Corsairs were camouflaged with paints that matched the cited colors, I must admit that NONE of them were painted with duPont 71-series paints.  This doesn’t matter to modelers directly, but all duPont 71-series paints were lacquers – and all of the FAA-camouflaged Corsairs were painted with enamels.  (The use of enamels also meant that there was no change in colors between fabric and metal surfaces, an issue seen on most US Navy Corsair camouflages.)

     

    As noted frequently on this site, in 1938/39 the British Purchasing Commission hired duPont to produce color standards matched to the RAF’s own chips; duPont did OK, but screwed up on several colors.  Most US manufacturing drawings and specs quoted the duPont numbers but added the words “or equivalent.”  This allowed aircraft manufacturers to purchase from a variety of paint producers, as long as the paints matched duPont’s chips.

     

    The ANA agreements were a joint effort to limit the number of paints that aircraft manufacturers needed to stock.  The mid-1942 agreements chose the most commonly used color to become the standard, allowing that color to be substituted for an approved list of similar colors.  The agreements never required the substitution of a US paint for one of the British paints on the duPont charts, and it appears several of the British colors continued to be purchased and applied by US aircraft manufacturers until fairly late in the war.  The ANA color chips released in May 1943 were based on the selected ANA standards, and were reasonable matches.

     

    Standardization was particularly important for the Corsair since major subassemblies were being built at subcontractors around the country.  Outer wing panels, vertical and horizontal stabilizers, and rudders and elevators needed to match the paints being applied by Vought and Brewster - and photos suggest there was a fairly high degree of consistency.  (Note that the demarcation lines needed to align too!)

    The standard FAA colors in 1943/44 would have been Dark Slate Grey, Extra Dark Sea Grey, and Sky.

     

    So, the Corsairs’ colors themselves:

     

    Dark Slate Gray – Prior to the ANA agreements, Vought had applied this color (based on duPont 71-19323) to Chesapeakes.  By the time Corsairs were in production, the ANA agreements had allowed the substitution of Dark Olive Drab (duPont 1071-028) – here I suspect the “1071" prefix reflect the fact that the AAF lacquer was specially formulated to reduce the infra-red signature.  Vought was particularly good about confirming any revisions to color schemes or paints, so I do not believe old stocks of Dark Slate Grey were ever expended on Corsairs - and if they were, the outer wings and tails would not have matched the center wing panels or fuselages.

     

    Extra Dark Sea Grey – Again, Vought had used this color (71-19324) on Chesapeakes.  In the ANA agreements EDSG was adopted as the standard and renamed Sea Gray.  If Vought had leftover stocks of this paint it would have made no difference, but there’s no evidence that it would have mattered, since both color names referred back to the same duPont number.

     

    Sky – I’ve major problems with the origins of the US version of this color, but those issues don’t apply to Corsairs (so we don’t have to go there).  The Vought Chesapeake drawings call for Sky Type “S” Gray 71-021 or equivalent.  (This is the only color on any of the drawing to specify “or equivalent.”)  On the Corsair drawings the color is now Sky 71-021, which had been accepted as an ANA standard.  Note that 71-021 matched neither British Sky or Sky Grey, but at least was a pale green.

     

    Anyhow, I hope that something here is helpful - I know there’s a lot more detail than necessary, but I hope the extra clarifies some of the continuing issues.

     

    Cheers,

     

     

    Dana

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  6. Good catch, Mike,

     

    It is a very useful site, though the captions and identifications are often messed up - that's mostly from typists mis-reading hand-written caption notes.

     

    Nearly everything is taken from record group 80-GK.  If you find an image you want copied, such as:

     

    https://www.historylink101.com/ww2_navy/org/planes/Bombs/15239.html

     

    the digits just before ".html" are supposed to be the individual negative number.  For the link above, that would be 80-GK-15239.  All that said, the historylink101 folks screwed up a number of those neg numbers - our image could be 80-GK-15238, 80-GK-14240, or something completely different.

     

    If you're visiting the Archives, you can access ten original color transparencies per day.  You can use the Archives' scanner (they provide the software) and your own computer to make extreme-resolution scans of these images.

     

    If you hire a researcher to copy images for you, be sure to add a written description to the neg number - most researchers can track down the correct image if the historylink101 number is scrod.  You can shop around for researchers (once the Archives reopen) - some charge by the hour, while others charge by the image.

     

    The worst thing about the site, by the way, is the vast amount of time most of us lose once we log in...

     

    Cheers,

     

     

    Dana

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  7. 9 hours ago, LDSModeller said:

    To be honest the only time a RNZAF Corsair would have three tanks fitted, was if they were ferrying somewhere

    If completing a Ground attack run, 1A's would carry ordnance centreline

    1D's would carry either a centre line tank and two pieces of ordnance depending on how far the flight distance was

     

    Couple of YouTube films of RNZAF Corsairs being bombed up or  taking off on missions sans fuel tanks

    Bombing up F4U-1D Corsair Bouganville

     

    RNZAF Corsair takeoff Torokina

     

    Interestingly NZ5397 and NZ5399 were listed a 1A's

    All 1D's were Serialed  NZ54** or NZ55**

    FG-1D's were NZ56**

     

    An RNZAF Corsair with Left fitted Tank

    RNZAF Corsair with Left hardpoint tank

     

    Regards

     

    Alan

    Hi Alan,

     

    My list could be wrong - nearly all my Kiwi assignments came from Warren Russell's book, which I'd heard was rather authoritative.  The one note that might explain the confusion complained that several Corsairs being sent to New Zealand had been snarffed up by US Navy and Marine units that felt they were somehow in greater need; the thefts were to be replaced by later aircraft.  Anyway, here's what my lists show:

     

    Vought #2870    BuNo50405    Kiwi serial NZ5397    US Designation F4U-1D    
    Vought #3103    BuNo50638    Kiwi serial NZ5399    US Designation F4U-1D 

     

    I'd appreciate any help you can offer updating my lists - I'm sure there are other errors buried in there somewhere!

     

    Cheers,

     

     

    Dana

    • Thanks 1
  8. 43 minutes ago, SleeperService said:

    Any relation?

     

    While looking through Dennis's build thread linked above I was led HERE which shows a centreline tank AND a wing root mounted bomb. Could my NZ subject with the three tanks have been able to use them all? I need to find my sleuthing hat....

    spacer.png

     

    Hi Sleeper,

     

    The Corsair IIs in your image are in the JT531--JT634 range - they were the only FAA -1Ds with plumbing for the CL tanks.

     

    The USN wasn't certain the new pylons would work, so early -1Ds were delivered with outer wing "tanks," a fully plumbed CL tank, and plumbing for the right pylon only.  The left pylon plumbing was later retrofitted, the wing tanks were deleted, and plumbing for the CL position was dropped.  (A bomb, however, could still be fitted on the CL rack.)

     

    The following Kiwi Corsairs were delivered with plumbing for the centerline tank, plumbing for the right-hand pylon, and outer wing leading edge tanks.  The left-hand pylons should have been subsequently retrofitted with plumbing for fuel tanks.  The serials are presented in order of Vought production number.
    NZ5460, NZ5466, NZ5397, NZ5468, NZ5467, NZ5537, NZ5538, NZ5539, NZ5540, NZ5551, NZ5541, NZ5464, NZ5448, NZ5439, NZ5552, NZ5542, NZ5543, NZ5443, NZ5442, NZ5553, NZ5451, NZ5544, NZ5545, NZ5546, NZ5547, NZ5447, NZ5440, NZ5548, NZ5555, NZ5549, NZ5556, NZ5550, NZ5557, NZ5483, NZ5408, NZ5558, NZ5559, NZ5560, NZ5561, NZ5429, NZ5410, NZ5562, NZ5419, NZ5563, NZ5409, NZ5405, NZ5564, NZ5402, NZ5565, NZ5566, NZ5567, NZ5568, NZ5569

     

    The following Kiwi Corsairs left the factory as above, but with the outer panel fuel tanks deleted.
    NZ5570, NZ5571, NZ5572, NZ5573, NZ5574, NZ5575,NZ5399   

     

    The following Kiwi Corsairs left the factory as above, but with factory-installed plumbing for the left-hand pylon.
    NZ5576, NZ5449, NZ5450, NZ5400, NZ5434,NZ5431, NZ5433,NZ5411, NZ5406

     

    Subsequent Kiwi Corsairs were delivered with the centerline plumbing deleted at the factory.

     

    Cheers,

     

     

     

    Dana
     

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  9. Hi John,

     

    I have to admit your build choice brought some confusion, none of it your fault.  As everyone has noted, JT228 was a Corsair II based on the F4U-1A,  Checking the internet, I found several pix purporting to be JT228/6A -- but the aircraft in the image is a late Birdcage Mark I.  Turns out the Birdcage version of 6A is JT18x (where the x looks like it might be a 5).

     

    JT228 was delivered with the longer US Navy wingtips.  In February 1944 the refit with short wingtips began; short short tips were introduced that April.  If you've got a good photo, you'll know which tip to use.

     

    The Vought blueprint color callouts were for Army Dark Olive Drab duPont 1071-028; Sea Gray duPont 71-19324; and Sky duPont 71-021.  Note that 71-021 was earlier known as Sky Type S Gray - though most color charts show a greenish hue more similar to Sky than Sky Grey, there are still some mysteries that surround the introduction of the paint.  Most of the duPont 71-line paints were lacquers, but the Corsair's RAF paints were enamels (matched to the duPont numbers).  As such, you won't get the different fading seen on US Navy and Marine aircraft, with pigmented dopes on fabric and pigmented lacquers on metal.  I've seen no evidence that Corsairs would have ever used ANA 602 Light Gray instead of Sky, though that callout shows up in several places.

     

    Enjoy the build - I look forward to following your (and everyone else's) work.  I only wish I had time to join in the group build, but I've three books to finish before November!

     

    Cheers,

     

     

    Dana

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  10. 49 minutes ago, Work In Progress said:

    I thought Goodyear did not build them with clipped wingtips but that Corsairs had the tips modified, and other ex-works mods to make them suitable for FAA use, by Blackburn Aircraft. Some of the Blackburn work being done in the UK, and some being done by Blackburn-employed work parties sent to the USA to do the necessary work there after the official end of the factory production lines once the aircraft had in the eyes of the law been handed over to UK custodianship.

     

    Hi WIP,

     

    Nearly all Mark Is were delivered with regular USN wingtips.  JT101 tested the factory-installed short wingtip.  Kits were produced for the installation of short tips on every Mark I.  Most were modified in the US by Andover Kent, some in the UK, and some may have never been modified.

     

    The first Mark IIs were delivered with USN wingtips; JT425 and subsequent were delivered with short wingtips.  Enough short wingtip kits were produced to modify all earlier aircraft.  Later "short short" wingtips were produced to retrofit to all Mark IIs.

     

    Mark IIIs were similar to Mark IIs, with the switch to factory-installed short tips beginning with JS543.  Again, enough kits were produced to fit short, and later short short, wintips to all Mark IIIs.

     

    When Goodyear took over production of Lend Lease Corsairs for the FAA, the short short wingtip was already standard; all Mark IVs came with short short wingtips.

     

    Cheers,

     

     

    Dana

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  11. Hi Ben,

     

    You should try to get your hands on a copy of Gooney Birds & Ferry Tales by Jon A Maguire - it's a photo history of the 27th TG.  On page 121 there's a photo of 43-5392 showing OD and Neutral Gray camouflage.  Page 258 has 43-5343 in the same camo, so I think your aircraft is safely bracketed.  The book notes the 320th ATSq colors were the back and yellow tail-top stripes and cowl checks, though there were exceptions.

     

    The fiscal year was created to end the need for extensive year-end reports around the Christmas/New Year holidays.  Originally the FY ran from 1 July through 30 June; FY43, for example, ran from 1 July 1942.  (Of course, in the US this meant the fiscal year began just as everyone was preparing for the 4th of July holidays, so in 1972 the dates were changed to 1 October thru 30 September.)  On air force aircraft the fiscal year reflected the year the aircraft was ordered - an FY43 aircraft could be delivered in calendar 1942, 1943, or even later.  A few aircraft impressed into the AAF in FY43 were built in the 1930s.

     

    Anyhow, best of luck with the build!

     

    Cheers,

     

     

    Dana

     

    • Like 2
  12. Hi Cookie,

     

    I don't recognize the kit you're modifying, but it doesn't look 1/32 from you images.  That said, Grey Matters did a pair of 1/32 kits of the Corsair engine accessory bays - you might find them useful for scaling down as a three-dimensional reference.  If you go that way, get GMALB3203 - it has the larger oil tank used on 1As and 1Ds but doesn't include the water injection tanks you see on KD431.

     

    Looks like you're off to a great start - enjoy the build!

     

    Cheers,

     

     

    Dana

     

     

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  13. Hi Yankee Air Pirate,

     

    It's hard for folks to respond to corrections on five-year-old posts, but in this case Nick was right anyway.  The order he was quoting was a Navy order; there were similar orders from the War Department at the same time, and the Southwest Pacific Area had begun removing the red centers in February 1942.  (It took some months for the Washington to catch up.)

     

    But Guadalcanal was in the South Pacific - a Navy theater - with AAF aircraft detached from the Seventh Air Force in Hawaii to fight under Navy control in the SoPac.  The Army squadrons were at a severe disadvantage compared to their Navy and Marine counterparts (which weren't exactly having things easy) and Navy commanders tended to be a full rank higher than their AAF counterparts.  The situation became untenable, so the AAF eventually formed the Thirteenth Air Force and promoted most of its SoPac higher-level commanders.  Parity helped, but it still wasn't seniority.

     

    So while I agree with you that BuNos are not interchangeable with Radio Call Numbers, and the BuAer paperwork usually doesn't pertain to AAF actions, in this five-year-old case Nick was justified in his quotation.

     

    Cheers,

     

     

    Dana

    • Like 3
  14. In the time period you're discussing the orange flight suits were still being used by training organizations and Air Defense Command.  On my first T-33 flight in '68 I wore sage green, but my ADC pilot still proudly wore his orange.  (It was a great flight, BTW!)

     

    Cheers,

     

     

    Dana

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  15. Coincidentally, I was reading correspondence on British and USN camouflage in the MTO written on 18 July 1943 by Robert V. Cosel, the intelligence officer for Fleet Air Wing 7.

     

    The second paragraph seems to fit this discussion:

     

    "I finally got up to the "Rock" to check on the Sunderland and the following is about as much as I have on the subject.

     

    "Flat white is considered the best in this area.  The top of the wings and fuselage are painted blue, or blue and green streaks, if the plane operated in an area where enemy aircraft are expected.  The principal thing is to have all under and side surfaces white.  A dull non reflecting paint is the best.  There is a possibility of some flashing when you are down sun but the general good points of white outweigh this bad quality....

     

    "At Gib I was told their then [sic] policies were dictated by the headquarters of Coastal and that all white was uniform throughout Coastal.  The tops of their wings and fuselage are blue-green, however.  I found out that no Sunderland was attached there for operations and that those that passed through were all-white.  The Hudsons and Wellingtons in the Mediterranean are the same as the others.  I was some [sic] operating out of Oran.  Gib said that they had not done any experimenting there but just took orders from Coastal."

     

    [I'm pretty sure his typewriter didn't have spell checker!]

     

    I wonder if the "blue" noted in this report was one of the Med Blues, or if it was a poor explanation of Extra Dark Sea Gray.  I suspect the former (as the AAF's B-24s were repainted one of the Med Blues before leaving England for the MTO) but I can't offer proof.  The "green" could have been an interpretation of Dark Slate Gray, or something more exotic?

     

    I know this isn't much help, but at least we know we're not talking Dark Earth and Dark Green at this date...

     

    Cheers,

     

     

    Dana

    • Thanks 1
  16. Hi Jackson,

     

    The original P-40s would have used Yellow Green, a combination of zinc-chromate primer (yellow), aluminum paste, and black enamel.  You can find details here:

     

    http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/showandtell1yellowgreendb_1.htm

     

    You should also watch for changes aft of the cockpit on the fuselage right side, at the tail wheel, and (depending on the date of the aircraft you're depicting) at the leading edge of the wing/fuselage faring.  Be sure you don't include the under-fuselage rack.  I don't know the kit very well, but you should probably omit the armored glass inside the windscreen if it's provided by Airfix.

     

    Cheers,

     

     

     

    Dana

    • Like 4
  17. Hi Dennis,

     

    That's the vent intake behind the roundel; on most aircraft it would be covered with a forward-facing intake scoop.  The ventral exhaust is below, several inches back.

     

    Somehow the aft fuselage formed a venturi, sucking exhaust fumes in though the lower hatch and tail wheel well, eventually endangering the cockpit.  The US Navy thought they could seal the bulkhead behind the radios, while the Brits preferred the vent system.  Eventually the US recognized the advantages of the British system and added their own vents.

     

    Cheers,

     

     

    Dana

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  18. Hi Dennis,

     

    The aircraft was a Brewster-built Corsair III.  Brewster got so far behind in production that the Navy insisted that a number of aircraft intended for the US needed to be diverted to the FAA, hence the American camouflage.

     

    BTW, despite the caption, not all the colors were non-specular: the upper surfaces of the wings and stabilizers, aft of the leading edges, were semi-gloss.

     

    Cheers,

     

     

     

    Dana

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  19.  Hi Marcos,

     

    I think the links that Troy provided have already answered your question.  In short, officially the scheme used four colors on almost all aircraft.  You'll find most of the variations on the fuselage - a very complicated topic on Corsairs.

     

    The big exception was the rarely seen, overall glossy version of the graded scheme - all three colors used gloss paints.  I've found one confirmed example of that scheme, and it was on a Corsair...

     

    Cheers,

     

     

    Dana

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