Dana Bell

Hi Tbolt, They're right that the first mention of Medium Green as an anti-glare color came in 1944, but that was in November of the year. Very few wartime production lines had switched to the color by V-J Day (older stocks of DDG had to be used up first) - but they seem to have evidence that at least one of the Republic lines made the switch. (News to me !) I'll be surprised if any earlier production used the color. Cheers, Dana

Hi Gents, A bit of clarification here... In AAF tech orders, whenever two coats of zinc chromate were specified the second coat was always to be tinted. This allowed painters and inspectors to know how many coats had been applied. Erection and Maintenance manuals were written for field use, though they were frequently akso used on production lines. However, production lines really concentrated on the language of the contract, and even that could be ignored through negotiation between contractor and Wright Field. That bluish color in Republic-built P-47s was simply a variation of Dull Dark Green (and there were several). The Austrian recovery does show Interior Green and Dull Dark Green in the cockpit. The interior Green was the second coat of primer, and the DDG was the finish coat applied to reduce cockpit reflections. The Interior Green can only be seen in areas unlikely to reflect on the instruments or canopy but still needing corrosion control. Cheers, Dana

Hi ForestFan, I don't know if you found the LSP piece, but I didn't. Your cockpit color would depend on the date the original aircraft was manufactured - originally Bronze Green, with Dull Dark Green on later Grumman aircraft; originally Dull Dark Green, with Interior Green on later TBMs. All Avengers had an exterior coat of zinc chromate (yellow) before the finish coat of camouflage was applied. Cheers, Dana

Hi all, Beyond the tech orders and specs, in early 1942 Wright Field gave North American Aviation an exemption from priming its California-built P-51s, AT-6s, and B-25s. The company didn't have the painting facilities to keep up with production needs. Primers served three purposes - corrosion control, static electricity reduction, surface preparation for finish coats. For P-51Bs this meant that you'd see very little interior color other than the natural (unpainted) aluminum. The cockpit was painted to reduce glare, and the faying surfaces for the fuselage structure were primed with a single coat of yellow zinc chromate to reduce intergranular corrosion with the skin. (The structure was usually painted with a hand roller to save time and primer; once the skin was attached, the primer was hardly visible.) The main wing spar was primed with yellow zinc chromate to reduce corrosion and cut down on static buildup - remember that the fuel tanks were just aft of the spar. Despite growing evidence of corrosion problems in Mustang wheel wells, Wright Field continued to deny that there had been any negative reports. Eventually, at some point in production, primer and finish coats were added to the main gear wells, but not until long after Gentile's crash. I hope this helps with your project - certainly an interesting and unusual presentation, and I look forward to seeing the results! Cheers, Dana

Hi Graham & all, I wish I had more evidence; I really wish I had proof, either way! This all came up years ago when the discussion pointed out that the Spits couldn't have been painted with Navy paint, since they were so much darker than the nearby Wildcats. Finding documentation that Wasp was one of two ships to experiment with Dark Blue only opened a possibility, one that I can't yet discount. Dark Blue was far more common than any of our secondary publications would suggest. Blue Gray was listed as a problem (too light) in December 1941. By the end of 1942 the Navy issued orders to paint aircraft in Blue Gray, but that the Blue Gray paint was to be matched to Dark Blue. In 1943 thousands of gallons of Dark Blue were shipped to the South Pacific alone. It's just a possibility to be evaluated with the others - if some Spits were painted on board Wasp, and if those Spits were a dark Blue, and if records suggest that no British paints were carried by Wasp, it's possible that the Dark Blue stocks were used. That's all I can offer. I hope the Archives reopen one day soon... Cheers, Dana

There's a very strong possibility that the Spits that were repainted on board Wasp were repainted in US Navy paints. In early 1942 the Navy was investigating a color called Dark Blue as a replacement for its Blue Gray camouflage. The Navy was very sensitive about lighter-colored aircraft making their ships more visible to enemy aircraft - and those Spits were certainly lighter than the Navy wanted at the time. Dark Blue was an aircraft paint matched to - you guessed it - Deck Blue. Wasp was one of the two ships stocked with Dark Blue for evaluation. None of this proves that Dark Blue was used, but we know some of those Spits were repainted with a camouflage paint that was on board Wasp, and we know that Dark Blue was one of the colors Wasp stocked. Cheers, Dana

Hi guys, They should have been red, but I'm sure there were exceptions. The revision to Spec 98-24105R of 20 September 1943 added the following note on radio call numbers for night fighters: "...except that the numbers for night-fighting aircraft shall be insignia red in accordance with color chip No. 45 of Bulletin No. 41." This note came into the spec at the same time that the OD scheme was approved instead of the flat black scheme. Cheers, Dana

Hi Abandoned, US Senator "Scoop" Jackson (Washington state) porkbarreled a project to convert previously owned 747 airliners to military transports to be designated C-19s and assigned to the NY ANG at Stewart ANGB, New York. Jackson died before the project went too far, and the C-19 was cancelled. At the time, the unit was flying 2-seat Cessna O-2s which might have made the transition seem a bit extreme, but nearly all the pilots flew 747s for their civilian day jobs - not too much of a stretch. The unit eventually flew C-5s, so their Euro I camouflage and markings might have been appropriate for a C-19. Note that the scheme was not a wraparound, being monochromatic 36118 on undersides. Alternately, there was a Boeing/DARPA offer to build 747s as cruise missile launchers, which would have served under SAC. There first camouflage scheme would have been 36118 below, some equivilent of Olive Drab on top, and a pattern of dark gray (36092?) over top and bottom. Your "what-if" isn't so outrageous after all... Cheers, Dana

Hi David, Since you specifically mentioned the 7th Phoyo Group, you might try to find a copy of their unit history: https://www.amazon.com/Eyes-Eighth-Photographic-Reconnaissance-1942-1945/dp/0964911906/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=eyes+of+the+eighth&qid=1614684590&sr=8-1 Cheers, Dana

Hi Steve, I've not seen any really clear, well lit images of Streig's Corsair, but the little I've seen suggests he did fly with the 3rd camouflage variation - which is what your drawing shows. Intermediate Blue was a purple-blue color; the blue pigments faded rapidly, leading to numerous complaints from the field that the paint ended up looking pink. You've got plenty of room to plaay with the paints! Remember that the Semi-gloss Sea Blue portions of the wings would differ between the lacquers (metal skin) and dopes (fabric), and that the fabric extended all the way to the wingtip. The differences could be seen on brand new wings. The Non-Specular Sea Blue leading edges didn't differ that much from the main parts of the wing, and (on Corsairs) after weathering looked more like a single shade rather than less. Enjoy the build! Cheers, Dana

Hi Steve, Have you chosen which individual airframe you want to model? There are three major variations of the four-toned scheme for F4U-1As, plus a handful of minor variations - most of the schemes aren't properly identified in publications. If you post your choice here we can toss you a few hints about what you're trying to recreate. Cheers, Dana

Through WW2 the US military used three different colors for radial engine crank cases. The main color was the Engine Gray noted in the previous posts. This was the Navy's 1930s color standardized as the ANA shade in 1938. In mid-1943 the ANA members also allowed manufacturers to use the Army's 3-1 color Dark Gray No.13. The third color was an earlier Army color, but just now I can't locate the memos discussing its use. I seem to recall that it was 3-1 color Blue Gray No.12, but I'd feel better recommending this if I could put my hands on the documentation. Cheers, Dana

Hi Victor, If you drop me a note at my e-mail address ([email protected]) I'll send you some pix of Dark Gull Gray/White Kingfishers. There were plenty of them assigned to East Coast inshore patrol squadrons. Just a note - while modelers commonly refer to these schemes as "Atlantic" schemes, they were officially ASW Scheme 1 and ASW Scheme 2. While most often seen on Atlantic-based squadrons, they were also carried by a few rarely seen Pacific-based units. (Most Pacific units flew varied missions, and the schemes were not designed for use where enemy aircraft might be encountered.) Cheers, Dana

Hi N6539F, From what I can tell, only one of the B-17Bs completed its conversion. It was certainly painted with Cabot Haze Paint, but appears to have crashed in the US before ever seeing combat. I've many detail photos of the conversion - send me your e-mail address and I'll forward them to you via DropBox. (Unfortunately, I've never found an overall photo of the aircraft, but I suspect there were very few markings beyond the national insignia.) Cheers, Dana [email protected]

Hi Elger, I never got a look at the boarding ladder, so I've no opinion on its color. I had an invite to go document Flak Bait's colors back last January, but things got a bit crazy with the whole Covid thing and I haven't had a chance to get out to the Hazy Center. B-26s were originally camouflaged with OD and Neutral Gray only; I'm not certain when the production orders added the Medium Green blotches. Later camouflage (after OD was deleted from most other aircrafts' production lines) seemed to dispense with the Medium Green, and eventually the only factory-applied camouflage was OD on upper surfaces. None of that is very helpful, but if you can see Medium Green on the vertical tail of the aircraft you're modeling, you can be certain it's also on the wings and stabilizers. Good looking build so far! Cheers, Dana

Hi Mark, A beautiful job, skillfully excuted! It's been fun to follow your progress and a joy to see the results! Cheers, Dana

Hi Fabio, Indeed - the aerial wires run from each wingtip to the fin. One of the wires should have an additional lead to the fuselage, but I don't see it in any of the photos. Cheers, Dana

Hi Whirly, That's the XP-40 in its final configuration. The first three production P-40s were delivered in aluminum finish, but all subsequent P-40s, P-40Bs, and P-40Cs were delivered in camouflage. As to the markings, that's the #11 aircraft assigned to the Materiel Division at Wright Field. (There might be a blue/yellow WRIGHT arrowhead marking on the aft fuselage. If so it's blocked from view by the wing - but it was there earlier in the year when the aircraft carried a simple "10" on the vertical tail.) The designator appears above and below the left wing only. Enjoy the build - early aluminum P-40s always looked so futuristic! Gotta love 'em... Cheers, Dana

Hi Steve, I can give you an idea, but it won't be very helpful. The colors were to be matched to the 1926 version of the Munsell charts. As listed in the 1935 handbook of naval aircraft camouflage they were: BG-B 2/4 Blue Green - the upper surface base color for all aircraft GY-G 2/4 Yellow Green - the disruptive color applied to 1/3 of upper surfaces on larger aircraft (such as the PBY) PB 4/4 Purple Blue - the countershading color applied to vertical surfaces PB 6/2 Purple Blue - the underside color There are two problems with the "official" colors -- first, some of the aircraft show three shades (not two) on the upper surfaces, and second BuAer didn't order and supply the paint. Local units were provided 4x4-inch paint chips and expected to mix their own paints. This might partially account for wide variation in shades seen in most of the photos. I wish I could offer more, but at least this is a start. There are still some Asiatic Fleet records at the National Archives, but they've been closed since February, and I'm not sure when they'll reopen. Cheers, Dana

Hi Pauly Boy, My name shows up in some of the linked threads referenced above, so I thought I'd add in some details to help you with your color choices. Let me start by saying that I don't know what colors those two prewar squadrons were painted. They were eventually to become the Black Cats, but that was later in the war. They were not painted in the same scheme as seen at Pearl Harbor - those aircraft wore Dayton R. E. Brown's Seagull scheme, a graded progression of black to white down the fuselage sides (with dark blue to white on a single aircraft). The known recon photos of the Philippine PBYs were dated April, May, and October 1941 - eliminating the possibility that the camouflages were applied in a rush at the last minute. From 1935 through 1940, the Navy's standard camouflage was a combination of yellow-greens and blue-greens, which certainly made sense for the Philippines. The change to the single Blue Gray upper camouflage was made in December 1940 for the US Fleet, but this did not initially include the Asiatic Fleet, a separate command. The first PBY painted in Blue Gray was completed on 10 January 1941 at North Island, San Diego. It is possible that the new scheme was recommended to PatWing 10 before April, but the new scheme was monochromatic, while the old green scheme called for a disruptive pattern. Countering all of this are the memories of several vets, who claim that the aircraft wore multi-toned blues and grays - they may be right. While my suspicions are that the greens still prevailed in the PI, there are many other combinations possible. Good luck with your choices, and enjoy the build! Cheers, Dana

Hi MDriskill, Sorry if I seemed upset with you - I wasn't, though my note wasn't clear about that. I'm just not happy with the sites that think they can reproduce what they wish for the greater good. I've had books turn up on those sites less that a month after the release date - certainly not my greater good! Best to you and yours for a happy Thanksgiving! Cheers, Dana

I have to disagree about Boxart Den. Any site that publishes copyrighted material without the author's/publisher's permission should be banned forever. Don't ask me why I feel that way... Cheers, Dana

Sorry it took so long to find the papers on this - the elimination of the walkway was begun in June 1945 with MCR 396-1. By that time the F4U-1 was out of production (with Vought switched over to F4U-4s) and Brewster had closed down. The change applied to FG-1s only. Cheers, Dana

Hi Shaun, Vought tried a number of different walkways, but all Corsair Is and IIs had them. They were deleted partway through Corsair IV production, after the step was added to the right inboard flap. Cheers, Dana

Hi Luca, That is indeed an F4F-4 - it was photographed on Core on 27 Sept 1943. The unit was VC-13, which flew only F4F-4s between September 1942 and November 1943. I did a good bit of primary research on the Wildcat, but I don't remember seeing anything about six-gun FM-1s. Do you have a citation? Cheers, Dana