Dana Bell
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Posts posted by Dana Bell
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Dana: Thanks for all your info, nice to have you respond to my questions, just finished reading several articles by you, two of which i had photocopied to save, safe and well, in my Corsair builds folder. Even more red faced that I didn't recognise your name, bows head in shame and exits stage left!!!
...
Thanks to you all once again.
Doug S.
Hi Doug,
Nothing to be red-faced about - not even Indian-Red-faced, for that matter! I'm still a minor writer with a few good titles to my name, but I enjoy the work! Glad something helped...
Cheers,
Dana
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Please elaborate?
Hi Erik,
There was a bit of confusion some time ago - this isn't me:
Cheers,
Dana
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Hi Doug,
Indian Red was an iron oxide (rust) based pigment that was commonly used in primers; the name shows up in most of the contemporary correspondence and specs. It was often added to zinc chromate (yellow) to distinguish the second primer coat from the first - the mixture was the pink or orange color dubbed "salmon" by Larry Webster a few years back. (Although the term salmon wasn't used during WWII, it's still a great descriptor!)
That was me writing for FineScale - it was a good gig and a great group of folks to work with. (I should do more of that!) I am not the same Dana Bell as the minimalist artist, biker environmentalist, vampire lust novel writer, or folk singer - besides, those four folks are all babes...
Cheers,
Dana
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Hi Doug,
The orders to drop Indian Red from the second primer coat came in April 1943, though I expect it took a few months to deplete existing stocks of paint and pre-primed parts. Vought's paperwork certainly caught up in August, when Indian Red was eliminated from the finish specs.
At the same time that the Navy ordered the deletion of Indian Red, Vought proposed a "yellow-zinc-chromate-only" primer. If the metal was Alclad, one coat of yellow zinc chromate would do the job. If the metal was any other alloy, the manufacturers would apply one coat of yellow zinc chromate, stamp it with the words "1st Coat" in black ink, then apply a second coat of YELLOW zinc chromate. The words "1st coat" would show through the translucent second coat, proving that there were two coats. This went into effect during the summer of '43. (Note that the first production "-1As" were delivered in the middle of August.) In short, Vought, Brewster, and Goodyear (VBG) did not use Interior Green as a primer coat.
Cockpits were a different matter. Also in April 1943, the Navy told VBG to use up their stocks of Dull Dark Green, then switch to Interior Green as a cockpit color. Surviving aircraft suggest that this took place sometime between July and September, with lots of pre-painted DDG components still in use well into the autumn. (The change could have occured in final models of the Birdcage Corsair, but the record is murky.) Vought got a waiver to use aluminized zinc chromate ("candy apple green" in the cockpits - they found some pre-mixed stocks they wanted to use up. There's no record of how many aircraft received the bright cockpits, but I suspect it couldn't have been very many. (Brewster and Goodyear did not have aluminized zinc chromate to use up, and went directly to Interior Green.)
Cheers,
Dana
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Hi Omer,
C-47 insignia sizes varied over time, but the markings you're showing used a 50-inch diameter star.
The artwork seems oddly familiar. Who did your decals?
Cheers,
Dana
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Hi Rog,
In the US, it was an accident, at first. Coated interior surfaces were to be primed (two coats), then finished with aluminum lacquer. In the early 1930s, Wright Field casually suggested to Northrop that weight might be saved if the first coat was zinc chromate primer (yellow) and the second coat combined a second primer coat with the aluminum finish coat - two coats instead of three. Shortly afterward, Northrop wrote back in some confusion asking if the Army realized that the result would be a bright green! Later, black was added to the mix to tone it all down, and later still the aluminum was dropped in reaction to an aluminum shortage.
The darker greens seemed to have been chosen to reduce glare on night flights without turning cockpits into black holes.
Cheers,
Dana
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Think it's more a matter of timing. SBG came in with the Corsair IV (FG-1D) and by the time they began to be delivered the frontline FAA had mainly relocated to the Pacific and Indian Oceans. I've certainly seen photos of SBG Corsair IVs in "European" markings, though they were in transit to the Far East. But it certainly wasn't an issue of one finish being deemed more effective than other in differing theatres.
I can confirm that the Glossy Sea Blue scheme was not introduced because the aircraft were bound for another theater. Just as Goodyear was preparing to transition to production of FG-4s and F2Gs, the Navy canceled the Brewster contract. Vought was already done with it's Corsair II work, and had only five months left before ending F4U-1D production. Suddenly forced to increase production to meet the FAA 's needs, Goodyear was looking for every production shortcut it could find. On 22 June 1944, BuAer noted that the FAA had agreed to accept its Corsair IVs in overall Glossy Sea Blue.
Of course, things couldn't be that simple. Briggs had already built and camouflaged a large number of outer wing panels for the Corsair III, all of which were to be transferred to Goodyear. These panels were painted in enamels, and BuAer gave Goodyear permission to overpaint the panels with a couple of coats of GSB lacquer! The lacquer etched through the enamel, and the paint began chipping off before the aircraft could be delivered. Several dozen aircraft needed to have their outer wing panels stripped and completely repainted...
Cheers,
Dana
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I don't want to hijack the thread, but there have been several notes about US Navy aluminum colors that were correct at certain times. In the 1920s and early '30s, the Navy used only enamels for finish coats. For aluminum finishes, aluminum paste was mixed with spar varnish to create a paint that would cover most of the aircraft. When that enamel wouldn't stick to the metal primers then in use, the Navy refused to switch to a lacquer, changing the color to Aircraft Gray (originally called Navy Gray, then changed to avoid confusion with the ship color). This led to a distinctly different finish on metal and fabric.
In the mid-1930s the Navy learned of the Air Corps' successes with pigmented dopes and lacquers, and also began to use zinc chromate as a metal primer. As these finishes were phased into service, the all-aluminum finish returned, though there were slight (but noticable) differences between fabric and metal areas.
The unpainted metal was rarely used by the Navy - it usually involved Alclad, an aluminum ally sheet coated with nearly pure aluminum in the manufacturing process. Invented by Alcoa in the late 1920s, it would see little use until the md-1930s (and then was often overpainted).
This doesn't answer the original question; since I've no first generation notes on British finishes, I'll leave that subject to Nick and the others who study the subject!
Cheers,
Dana
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Hi Dalea,
For the most part, US interior colors were applied to reduce glare, reduce static electricity buildup, and/or protect against rot or corrosion. Fabric was generally cover with a heavy exterior coat of clear dope, which soaked through to also seal the interior surfaces. Pigmented and semi-pigmented coats of exterior dope generally did not soak through (unless there were pinholes in the fabric), and there was no need to apply an interior finish coat. (If there had been a need, it would have been a difficult job, since the aircraft structure would have interfered with any internal paint job.)
So fabric interiors should look like slightly darkened linen or cotton fabric.
Cheers,
Dana
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Bob's right on this one - the aircraft was painted in Haze Paint. As the aircraft weathered, the pale, translucent top coat eroded, leaving the black undercoat. (It doesn't help that the contrast on that image is shot to heck.) It's not an easy scheme to reproduce in scale, though I've seen many successful representations.
Cheers,
Dana
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Favorites? Well if my favorite is the one I'd most like to model, the list is:
US/UK it's the Mosquito. (I wish the AAF had more and the USMC got some of the ones they wanted!)
Japan: Zeke
Italy: Macchi 202
Russia: Polikarpov I-15
Germany: 109E.
France: Dewoitine 520
Cheers,
Dana
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And THAT is why we never say "never!"
Great find - I'd love to see a walkaround of that Lightning...
Cheers,
Dana
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Hy Tony,
Just in case I've confused the issue, while the end of the Brewster contract killed the FG-4 and F2G, that wasn't the intention. Both Goodyear products were delayed by the need to produce Corsair IVs, but the work continued on the advanced Corsairs. But by the time Goodyear could again concentrate on the FG-4 and F2G, the war was over. Originally, Goodyear was to be paid to complete a dozen or so FG-4s that were well advanced on the line, but in the end the Navy reduced the contract to complete a number of FG-1Ds that were also in the works.
The book is being published by Classic Warships as part of their Aircraft Pictorial series. I'll try to find the name of the UK distributor - I wouldn't mind seeing more copies available at British book stores!
I've been in touch with Dave Morris - I suspect the ball is in my court tosend him some answers! It seems every question he had in the book was covered by a note in the BuAer files, and I'd like to make sure he has access to all of that before he considers a second edition.
Cheers,
Dana
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Hi Tony,
I suspected you already knew about the Corsair III colors - thanks for confirming!
There was no plan to build the Corsair IV until the Brewster contract was canceled in June 1944. At that time, the division of labor had Goodyear building FG-1Ds for the US Navy and RNZAF, with a 1945 shift planned for FG-4s and F2Gs; Vought was already moving into F4U-4s for the USN; and Brewster was to be the producer of Corsairs for all FAA needs. There were hopes that Brewster could convert to F3A-1Ds for the FAA, but this idea dropped with the contract.
Vought suddenly received a new contract for Corsair IVs - if anything, the end of Brewster really signalled (though unknown at the time) the end of the FG-4 and F2G. Many of the parts built for Brewster were passed to Goodyear, while some outer wing panels were back-modded for USN deliveries. Goodyear was given permission to spray Glossy Sea Blue over the FAA enamel color scheme - though this was quick, it quickly ruined the finish, which then had to be stripped and repainted. Only a few dozen panels were messed up, with later panels getting Glossy Sea Blue dopes and lacquers directly from Briggs.
Tail surfaces were supposed to be built and painted by subcontractors, but while I've seen the orders, I'm not sure anyone followed through. The Brewster parts could have been used by Goodyear or Vought, but I've not yet found a paper trail on that one.
The Timecapsule Corsair book is a favorite - something that every museum should be doing with their restorations. Once the second of my Corsair books is finished, I'm hoping to send a bunch of notes to Mr Morris for possible inclusion in a second edition - though there is no commitment that such a book will be written.
Cheers,
Dana
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Hi Tony,
While there was a delay in getting Briggs to deliver shortened outer wing panels, there was little trouble getting them to apply FAA camouflage before delivery. All three aircraft manufacturers received the wings in Brit colors, though Goodyear (late to the game in an attempt to make up for Brewster's canceled deliveries) overpainted the wings with Glossy Sea Blue for all Corsair IVs.
The USN camouflage on Corsair IIIs appears to have resulted from the US Navy demanding that Brewster - never very efficient and always well behind on production - revise delivery schedules and divert nearly all production from the US to the UK. Planes being built for the USN suddenly received UK insignia and markings. Once the line caught up, Brewster started using US versions of the Brit colors.
Cheers,
Dana
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I'm working on another section of the second Corsair book right now, so I don't have a complete answer to your question. What documentaion I have seems contradictory, and I'll need some time to sort it all out. However, here's waht I do know:
- Briggs took some time delivering outer wing panels with shortened tips. All Mk.Is and some Mk.IIs were delivered with long (USN-style) wings, which were then to be modified to short wings. In the US, this was done by Andover Kent working out of Roosevelt Field, New York. Correspondence suggests that several aircraft went to the UK before the tips could be modified.
- There were short FAA wing tips and "short short" British wing tips. One document suggests that all Mk.IIIs were delivered with one or the other of these tips, but that the short tips were to be modified to short short tips. Perhaps this was mod also performed by Blackburn? (Other documents suggeset that early Mk.IIIs were diverted from Brewster's USN commitments and were delivered with USN tips and camouflage - this is something I still need to sort out!)
I'm going to be working on this project through the next six weeks - I'm no longer certain it can be published by Christmas! - but I'll try to post something a bit more substantial when I've completed that section of the book.
(The Birdcage book will be coming off the presses this week, though I'm not sure how long it will take to hit the UK. The US Amazon listing is here: http://www.amazon.com/Aircraft-Pictorial-No-F4U-1-Corsair/dp/0985714972/ref=la_B001JRWOCU_1_31?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1416236226&sr=1-31
Cheers,
Dana
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I agree on the Phantom Mustang being the first. I remember it well as the one thing I most wanted that Christmas - and it was everything I hoped it would be.
I also remember not having petrolium jelly to grease the gears - and using Vicks Vaporub instead! That model smelled like a bad head cold well into the spring...
Cheers,
Dana
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Evening, Gents,
I'm still trying to wrap the last two pages of the first book (which is about the Birdcage versions of the -1s). I've got a ton of material on the CO removal systems, including closeup photos showing the scoops directly over those holes in the fuselage. The carbon monoxode problem took some time to understand, so the vents and scoops weren't added right away. When I can start working on the second book (raised cockpit versions of the -1), I'm pretty sure I'll be able to nail down exactly when the scoops were added. BTW, I don't remember seeing any notes on the side vents being installed without the scoop -- but I haven't really spent any quality time sorting the many conflicting documents.
I have normally avoided writing about exported aircraft in this series, simplt because I've not felt the US Archives provided enough information to present an accurate story. Fortunately, the Corsair files are stuffed with explanations about Corsairs for the FAA and the RNZAF. While I can't answer every question (I'm still wrestling with the radio installations), I think I've got enough to do the Brit and Kiwi Corsairs justice. I just haven't had the time to smooth it all out yet...
As for service histories of the various models, the much-maligned Brewster aircraft were as good as any others, but there weren't very many of them. Only 430 of the 735 F3As became Corsair IIIs. Since each manufacturer used slightly different detail components, the Brewsters may have been concentrated where supply lines were less likely to cross.
Cheers,
Dana
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Hi Dave and Dad,
I don't know about thecanopy rivets - perhaps snaps for a canvas cover? Really no idea though.
The two portholes aree the intakes for the cockpit carbon monoxide flushing system; the reversed scoop below and aft of the intakes is the CO exhaust.
Cheers,
Dana
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Hi Mark,
There are a number of great Corsair books out there - I've got a soft spot for the MDF/SAM book by Joe Hegedus and Rafe Morrissey. Tonight I'm closing the last two pages of my own Bridcage book -- it should go to the printers on Monday next. About a month later, we should be done with the book on raised cockpit -1s -- with any luck, both will be available this year. I've turned up a pile of new technical details to keep modelers and illustrators busy for a while...
Cheers,
Dana
(First day on the site and I'm already hawking my books!!!)
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Hi Ian,
Nice image - I'd completely forgotten that this came up long ago. At the time, I'd assumed that one or two Navy Corsairs had been diverted to the UK for evaluation, but clearly that's not the case.
Nearly all the Brewster records are missing from the Archives - it seems the legal issues from the F3A contract cancellation meant that the Navy's lawyers had to pull all the files. Brewster Corsairs were fine, but the company was very slow to produce aircraft, and even slower to effect line changes. Frustrated that Brewster hadn't delivered a single British Corsair, on 7 January 1944 the US Navy ordered Brewster to switch completely to Corsair III production beginning with aircraft 175 (BuNo 04689, JS-469). I wonder if the sudden change meant that Brewster was forced to divert aircraft being built for the US Navy to the FAA? Your serials covered the 11th (JS479) and 23rd (JS491) Brewster Corsairs built for the UK - possibly only the first diverted aircraft wore the US Navy scheme before Brewster could switch to the FAA scheme.
I wish I could find the Navy's missing Brewster records - you've piqued my interest, and now I'd love to learn the backstory to this camouflage & markings anomaly.
Cheers,
Dana
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Hi Mark,
Beyond the serials, there's no easy way to distinguish Corsair IIs from Corsair IIIs. I've got one shot of a Brit Corsair with 531 on the nose and I'm still not sure if it's JS531 (Corsair III) or JT531 (Corsair II). Both types were delivered in FAA camouflage using Army Dark Olive Drab, ANA Sea Gray, and duPont 71-021 Sky (which is a debate all by itself). The outer wing panels for both companies were manufactured and painted by Briggs.
Brit Corsairs used three different wing tips: the original US Navy tip, a short tip, and a "short short" tip, squarer than the original short tip.
Mk Is came with the Navy tip, but several were rebuilt with the short tip by Andover Kent at Roosevelt Field, NY. (Most were not reconfigured.)
Briggs had trouble slowing production to install the short tip at their factories, so 73 of the first Corsair IIIs (JS469 thru JS542, minus JS519) arrived with the US Navy wings. Service Bulletin 544, issued 24 May 1944, directed field units to cut off the American-style wing tips and install the new, squared "short short" tips. I assume some of this work was completed by Andover Kent, but the record there is a bit hazy.
Eventually, Briggs began delivering wings with the short tips, which appeared on Corsair IIIs JS519, JS543 thru JS888, and JT963 thru JT972, as well as all Corsair IIs. The same SB 544 directed field units to remove the short wing tips and replace them with the "short short" wing tips.
If you've got a raised cockpit Corsair in Brit camouflage with short tips, it's an unmodified II or III; if it has US Navy tips, its an unmodified III, if it has short short, squared tips, it's a modified II or III. If it's configured with twin pylons beneath the fuselage, it is a later II (F4U-1D) - Brewster never made any F3A-1Ds.
It appears all of Goodyear's Corsair IVs were delivered with the short short tips, but those aircraft are easily distinguished by the Glossy Sea Blue camouflage scheme.
Cheers,
Dana
(I'll have drawings of the short and short short tips in the second of my two Corsair books, hopefully out by Christmas.)
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British Corsair serial lists...
in Aircraft WWII
Posted
I need help tracking serial numbers on some Corsairs assigned to the UK. My source for Halley's excellant Air Britain books dried up, and I'd prefer not to lay out the funds to buy my own set. Is there an online site that tracks the individual serials (not just the ranges)? I'm working in the JS, JT, and KD serial ranges.
There were several wartime adjustments to the deliveries of British Corsairs and their US Navy parallel serial numbers. For instance, the airframes for KD260 thru KD264 were pulled from the line and diverted to experimental F2Gs. I don't believe the British serials were ever used; five "extra" serials (KD863 thru KD867) were added to the end of production, evidently making up the difference. And KD561 seems to have been totally confused - some wartime lists omit the aircraft completely, other lists differ on which BuNo was used to produce it. I'm hoping someone in the UK has already found an explanation for these and other questions that the US records haven't nailed down.
Anyway, if there's no site, I can always rob a liquor store and buy the Halley books...
Cheers,
Dana