Codger

postimg.cc/files Foolproof for three years and free. And you can't get much help here if you need it without pictures.

Here's photo help: https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235008824-how-do-i-post-pictures/ Here's Pocher Rolls help beyond the Koo CD: https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235066099-a-big-rolls-royce-version-ii-1-7-2020/

A 'What the heck??' update... As you have learned here, to build an advanced Pocher Classic, one must be part engineer, part Swami and part - blacksmith. Cox is certainly all of these. I received these cryptic images and only after hounding the absent-minded professor (he really was one) I solved the riddle. It started here: See? Blacksmith stuff. The clues begin: Test fitting: Some crimping and fiddling: And finally a dressing of the surface with files, and hangar brackets installed. Will it be polished?: But 'hold on' I cried;' why would MB put an exhaust (heat?) shield on a full-fendered, top line sports car??' And I actually got a detailed answer. And this is where Cox shows he is not just an expert modeler but also a student of the classics he reproduces. He has encyclopedic knowledge of them (I learned) by years of studying the most expensive and prestigious books about each subject. It seems the shield was hidden on most of the 500/540’s by deeply skirted fenders. The cut-away fenders of the Spezial roadsters showed it off. To quote David; 'Lots of period photos show exposed pipes, but it was probably like the ignition shields on old Corvettes which tend to go missing. I am not sure if it was a heat shield to protect the fender, a vanity shield to hide the rusty down pipe, or a shield to keep water and snow off the hot exhaust pipe. Maybe all three. Never seen a show car without it.' Also part of his understanding comes from attending in person many concours and prestigious auctions over the decades. Indeed, the Amelia Island auction in Florida USA is in his backyard. All this may be a reason David's work comes from repeat customers or word-of-mouth from one to other. You get a lot when you ask for a Cox model it seems...

I vote foil... Maybe even BMF .

I can't even find him or it in a search! You got a phone number??

Thanks for posting, I missed the cross bolt holes first time around. Here is an ancient shot of a '65 lowriser going into a Cobra. The gallery is just visible as a dark line above the cross bolts. I certainly cannot criticize the deletion of cam and bits but that crank is a work of art. Would dearly love to own it...

Well I dragged out my old thread to snivel and whine about my absent, beloved Connie. There seems plenty of member interest but no manufacturer connection to get a new one started. And it appears the Admiral above has delayed or abandoned his plan to build a new one...so sad. Hoping for new info to come to light...

97's - You've touched a nerve here. Possibly you and I are the only two on this forum who can appreciate this project. Likewise, the only two who know what your chosen name here actually were ! So first, thank you for finding and sharing this. The brilliance of Wood's work cannot be overstated. Having built and raced dozens of these in the day, he should know the subject, even without drawings. To explain my appreciation; I've owned, built, modified and raced this near exact engine for 21 years with my Cobra. I have been deep into the guts many times and have extensive photos of all the work. So being an extreme observer, I saved, enlarged and studied all the photos. Leonard understandably cut a few corners, a few apparent only to a 'hands-on' observer and none to the unfamiliar observer. First, there is no crankshaft, camshaft, timing gears or valve train - perfectly fine and not the aim of what he wanted for a museum display. A few omissions. probably due to technical difficulties of CNC or machining: the oil gallery bulge along the driver side of the block is missing. This is how the engine got the name ' Side oiler' and was the method of giving the mains priority oiling - for endurance racing in NASCAR or sports car racing. Also the gallery plugs at the back of block that were the drilled holes for the gallery feeds. This as opposed to 'Top oilers' where the oil pump fed the cam journals first then down to the crank. The other omission is the bosses and bolt heads just above the pan rails on both sides for the cross-bolted mains. These were instrumental in stiffening the center three main caps and stabilizing the crankshaft. That's how you could push near 600HP for 500 miles or 550HP for 24 hours (3000 miles!) at full throttle. Surprisingly, Wood machined and ported the cylinder heads - probably just because he could ! Make no mistake I'd give near anything to have this masterpiece. Do you think we could get Mr Wood to 'kit' us a few??

Absent the knowledge that he started another thread elsewhere, I stand by my thought. That does not negate the courtesy of acknowledging the advice to his question kindly contributed here by others. Or stating that he has addressed the subject elsewhere.

I suspect this is rather like the instruction sheet to build the Space Shuttle; 'Open box, fly in space'. I further suspect much trial/error, blue language, much mesh (!), tiny bits and re-do's. But all worth while by this result. Nice to see you up and about as we've been patiently waiting for advanced lessons to re-appear.

Since the original poster has not revisited in four months, there is no indication he cares about our advice. Also his listed interests do not include model cars.

Catching up... Because this model has so much advanced work, none of what I present is in the order an instruction sheet would provide. David tackles things as he chooses and plans. So that's why these are in no particular order but all of it has been 'heavy work' with finer details or appearance items coming later. This particular version requires the Pocher stock doors to be shortened and here's how he does it. A slight bias cut due to curvature and you will note the splice removed from the door sill on the body above it. The back side of door showing reinforcing splice as a butt join is not acceptable. The Cox trademark partially opened window is shown in raw brass form for fit: Here they are after polishing with plastic template for their glass shape: An example of where the time goes; the seat bottom and backrest brackets in polished brass. Note the stiffener soldered to each. That's a Model Motorcars resin seat awaiting shaping and leather: More difficult work. Fine mesh is cut and fit to the hood vent openings. Remember these panels are nothing like the kit parts due to engine set back. That changes the locations for the exhaust exits and proportions of the vents. Seen here the side panels are being fitted to the top brass hood panels, which are lying flat on edge on the bench. The central hinge is at top. A LOT of bits to get aligned correctly : Now another tricky bit; the side flex exhaust pipes. I questioned David and learned that he scratch built these because of issues with the kit stock parts and the MMC items. The first is that the engine set back required longer pipes than either of the two. He rejected the Pochers as being less attractive than alternatives. He found the MMC pipes attractive but the last set he used were very stiff to shape. He concluded it was due to the chrome plating. So he searched his parts inventory and found these stainless steel wiring covers from a long-forgotten lamp. I'll let David's own words describe these for you: 1. No stock components were used except for the modified Pocher exhaust pipe that connects the flex pipe to the front silencer. 2. The flex pipe looks terrific, but was chosen for its flexibility. Was salvaged off a light fixture with a mini bulb at the end of this flex tube. Source: long forgotten. 3. Besides flexibility, these conduits had dandy black plastic tubes on their ends which perfectly fitted over the exhaust ports. 3. The Pocher exhaust pipe was shortened, re-shaped and the angles at both ends were changed to fit. 4. The bracket that supports the exhaust pipe is an exhaust hanger from the scrap box re-shaped to fit the exhaust pipe. 5. The holes in the fender (wing) were done before making these pipes. A trial fit shows what's in store: A more complete trail fit shows all the measuring and hacking paid big dividends. This will be even more dazzling with all the reflections of glossy paint to come. Very hard to see in this photo are the tiny holes around each rectangular vent into which the chromed brass (very thin) trim strips will be pinned. Cox never uses glue when mechanical fastenings like pins or bolts can be used. Some of you may cry 'FOUL' when a rare find like the stainless flex tube is not a common kit or aftermarket part. But motivated extreme builders will search for or make what they need to get to higher levels of accuracy. I am told that this customer has two other Cox-built Benz replicas and is very demanding in his appreciation of the marque. I'm informed that the chrome bits promised 3 weeks ago are in transit to David now and I will show those as soon as he lets me...

Jorgen, a wonderful presentation and just as I'd have chosen to do it. Displayed at a classic meet or Sotheby's auction - brilliant. But as is my custom, I can be annoying with 'what if' ideas and I ache to see one carried out on this model which is so deserving. My only wish is that you fashion a set of brass bumpers, which is well within your skill set. And then, have them chromium plated as my Rolls and all Cox models carry. The shapes are simple and delicate and with your spectacular black finish would make this a '100 Point' motorcar. Forgive my meddling - this is in no way a criticism of this fine Citroen replica.

Fine for smaller scales but for 1/12, 32 x 40 mat board has served me well. Also cork sheets are a very nice base texture. Mat boards seen here near window light on a cloudy day: Of course if your model is 27" long, extreme measures are required: The key is to have fun.

Jorgen I'm late to the party but all previous guests have said eloquently anything I might have. But I will say this; this is probably the best 8C IN ANY SCALE - and of any type - that I've seen - for capturing the character of the original. Viewing the model brings back 1932 immediately. And my personal crusade, your skills have outgrown 1/12 scale and demand a larger canvas.

I did NOT have that in mind. Just a ride in the back sofa of my Rolls.

Divine. Her phone number please??

Big news to me that F-1 cars used bead locks back then - just like big tire drag cars. Your wheel/tire combo is beautifully rendered. Especially this close view of the rear sides. Maybe a bit more brake dust back here is all. The whole presentation will gain immense credibility from these additions. Also like the gold used. Pale and subtle but clearly different from rims.

Oh boy............ I do not wish to over-promise and under-deliver. And to that end, I have been rattling the Cox in-box, beseeching for progress updates. All I can say is WOW. He has not gone on Spring Break with the college kids (he doesn't own a speedo) but rather working continuously on this Benz. I have no more photos beyond what's here which means he has not taken time to shoot them. But yesterday I was informed that he just shipped to the chrome plating house 44 (FORTY FOUR) bits of brass trim with possibly two more and some aluminum to go. Yes, those impossibly narrow and curvy bits snaking all over the fenders and flanks. And grille bars and handles and latches. This means that every bit of the lavish trim the originals had, this one will have. No wonder many builders (the few that try) either paint the trim or sand off most of it. Not for the squeamish. Further he states that the customer requested silver paint and red leather. David is now turning his attention to body prep. Remember this kit has already had the Frankenstein alterations to make it a Spezial. A time consuming process but we will see a good bit of that. As well as the treat of another fabulous Cox leather presentation. Progress soon as I get it - check in for more.....

This is hands-down the finest explanation of professional detailing I've ever seen on the forum. This takes 'realism' rocketing beyond 'the next level' we like to seek. Thank you Ron for a detailed, concise presentation. This is a big reason for the popularity of your superb 312T build. It's an open book of knowledge to those who try harder. Unfortunately manufacturers of even expensive 'top line' kits fail miserably to provide this type of accuracy. So the aftermarket has found a thriving niche among the few builders willing to up their skill levels for more realism. I have tried to explain in the Meng thread that the provided parts are inadequate to those that seek detailing. Apparently to no avail. And it has failures beyond just the plumbing fittings. You have not been hampered by the compromises even Tamiya has brought, by diligent work and hands-on experience. Here is another example of what real fittings and hoses look like - exactly as you portray above. Thanks for this excellent service Ron. C

Matt I promise I'm not trying to be the GT Police or a troll. But you are fastidiously concerned with accuracy to the chassis number and race day. My point is and has been Meng is letting you down. Not your ethic or workmanship. And because you are a deserving, respected builder here your projects always attract a lot of attention. You are absolutely correct about variations due to team, race and time period. All the cars had no 'factory standard' appearance. But Meng has got many corners cut and your readers should know that. Rather than clutter your thread with examples as I did earlier, I'll just point to one recent one. You can praise Meng's engineering because you're building it but not their accuracy. Your readers should know that. The example is the fuel pumps and plumbing. That looks more like household plumbing. It appears to be hard pipes rather than flexed lines. And your attempt at anodized fittings is not right. On anodized fittings, the blue fitting always screws into the appliance (fuel pump, filter or oil coolers). The red collar is screwed onto the hose and that then screws onto the blue fitting. The very fine threads make the seal. I have done this 1:1. Even fittings left natural without color are exactly the same. My oil cooler fittings and fuel filter are examples of this. And Stewart Warner pumps are not the blobs Meng gives. The lines to and from the pumps and filter were either black woven or raw stainless weave because they had to flex so much. You are certainly right that much will not be seen in place or be less noticeable. And I maintain a nice model Meng can be built. But it sorely lacks the character of a MK II. In my Trumpy build I was unconcerned about insulation on the bulkhead. Scruffy wires snaking through the cockpit said much more. I was satisfied in capturing the very accurate proportions, stance and character of the original without being a replica 1046 or specific chassis.

Admittedly a crappy shot but here is some BMF I distressed with 4-0 steel wool for this ali panel. The reflection is evident as a subtle sheen rather than chrome like shine: Perfect for a wheel well I thought:

Ho hum, another merely great presentation of the overall character of the car, even at this early stage. Especially like the forward chassis hoop. The harness gives more life-like color and feel. The point about the PE is good. If one must have metal effect sheet areas, I'd go with BMF which can be buffed up or down in sheen and is super thin. Don't mind me, keep doing what you're doing.......

Well thanks for your comment my friend. I would hope the next chapter will be YOU building your first Pocher classic...the Ducati was a good Pocher start...........

Thank you for this excellent resource Andy. Careful scrutiny clearly shows many details. The real problem for all of us except scratch builders is we must deal with or live with how manufacturers have designed our chosen kits. Compromises are inevitable but poor shapes, proportions and omissions are not. In the '90's 1046 was restored by then-owner George Stauffer and that is the 'version' that Trumpeter measured. Stauffer was a vintage racer and installed a roll cage but the '66 cars raced without them (!). Although shortly after, cars for Daytona and Sebring got them. So this is what Trumpy gave us, the roll bar and modern anodized fittings on the plumbing. As always, choices must be made by we builders as to the time, place and exact car we choose to replicate - or none. Then it comes down to finding and interpreting the info to get close. This vid is a great resource for accuracy. Chris Amon was a contributor. It clearly shows the engine front dress as I do and the black block and natural metal bits. Also shows the original lack of roll cage in the photos that Allin is flipping through. Amazing to me is an engine photo of the shaft and rocker arms using the iron rockers, steel shaft and coil spring separators - for 24 hour endurance! This engine had a very 'tame' camshaft by spec which allowed the use of these marginal parts - 480+HP was enough to get to 200MPH for 24 hours. Contrast that to my photo above of the billet rollers, shaft and end stands I used which are vital to bigger power output builds of today. These are essential to my engine's 550HP and 6500RPM. I admit this is all angels on the head of a pin - very little of any of the details will be seen in the complete model. It is more constructive to capture the character of the car. Although a corporate project by Ford, all the hand-built stuff to work at the track came from the Holman and Shelby teams, accounting for some differences. Which is why I chose to build my model with features of many of them but not replicating one chassis number. Build your model to have the most fun and satisfaction...