iainpeden

Erk, I've just gone back to the very start of the thread - 2 1/2 years ago. It rather looks like one of those projects that started as a simple little paint job - and ended up like the Forth Rail bridge, never quite finished. keep it going, mate.

The basic war fit for an F-4J (UK) {never F-4 F.3!} would have been four Sparrows (or whatever our update was) in the belly troughs and four Sidewinders, two on each inner pylon. I don't think they ever carried the central gun pod, possibly as they were ex-USN and didn't have the necessary wiring. (Might be wrong there). External fuel tanks - well that looks less clear. Photos showing them carrying two wing tanks are usually early ones with the fins not painted black so I'd go for the central belly tank if you're doing a black tail. Then there's the question of actuality. Unlike the RAFG and Falklands based Phantoms, were the F-4J (UK)s ever in a "prepared for war" fit - I don't even know if they ever stood a full QRA. There are a number of photos of the Js bare, except for the port inner pylon and I have one of Q (ZE3??) with no tanks, both inner pylons, the outer rail of the port pylon carrying a blue sidewinder acquisition round and a grey Sparrow ballast round in the forward port trough. (grey fin). Never simple is it?

There are three certainties in life: death, taxes and that you can never get enough Phantom Phacts.

They all had the intake fairings (empty) except one (ZE350???). Only one came across the pond with a black fin (and not the leading edge of it). Only 3 got resprayed in "proper" British colours . Good luck with the blue they came over in - and even that wasn't consistent. This might help. https://bpag.co.uk/

Phanks again, Keith.

No problem - it is getting a bit too technical for me too!😀

No, because it was a whole single unit so the paired tailplanes where either both slotted or neither were.

Given the (now compulsory) accuracy of kits down to the nearest millimetre, here's a little curiosity about Phantom stabilators - something I have never seen referred to in writing or diagrammatically or on the 1/72 and 1/48 kits I have built. I only noticed this while walking past XV474 at Duxford and checked on the F-4J in the AAM. This is present on both of them. On the underside of the tip of the stab is a lip, running front to back (or fore/aft for the sea worthy); only about 5mm top to bottom but its there.

@Kari Lumppio As @Scout712 says the tailplanes /stabilators were a single unit assembly; I'm assuming the reasons for them from the airframe was to service the motors/actuators which moved them or to fix combat damage. Onto the stabilators differing in colour scheme to the main airframe. For example the Luftwaffe F-4Fs went through at least 3 main schemes as well as a few experimental ones so stabs moved from one airframe to another during a transition could be a different scheme. In addition, the Luftwaffe Fs often had exercise or high viz markings with the stabs painted red, blue, yellow or white (often the rudder as well). Another possible example would be the RAF Phantoms transitioning from green/grey to grey camo - there were certainly mis-matched rudders and radomes. To get a bit more involved there were various iterations of the stabs: with and without slots on the front, with or without the triangular reinforcement plates. Now, I'm guessing generally a slotted replacement unit would be replaced with another slotted one; however, IIRC from discussions on here, there was a case where an RAF FG.1 (F-4K) slotted stab was used to replace one from an RAF FGR.2 (F-4M). PS - don't forget that the camo patterns on the two sides of the stab unit were not necessarily mirror images.

The second series starts on 9th January '23. I think it's on the "Yesterday" channel.

@ElectroSoldier I think you're getting the wrong end of the (hairy) stick. Think of a carpet. The manufacturer will make three different grades (all to the same dye colour), one for stairs (heavy duty), one for the lounge (medium duty) and one for the bedroom (light duty). Paint is the same; the same colour at different grades for specific use.

@tempestfan Sorry, I cant find the details but seem to remember that it was the red and blue one with the white horse down the side. (Luftwaffe F-35 OSD scheme 2060 maybe!)

You're certainly right about getting approval to use a non-spec paint. However IIRC one of the Luftwaffe F-4 squadrons used a car paint for an anniversary scheme just before the a/c was due for a deep service and repaint, flew it and then the balloon went up because the normal paint removal system had no effect on the car paint. And lets face it - lots of use Halfords spray cans for our models!!😇

A couple of random thoughts. When the green/green Harriers first appeared with the underside colour unlike anything seen before, the story went around that it had been purchased at the local DIY store. A little earlier there was (were) a Harrier GR3 (maybe a couple in RAFG) that trialled a Dark Sea Grey uppersides and MSG underside; one appeared at a Finningly BoB show. Somewhere I have the idea there was also a GR3 in the two greens scheme but could be wrong.

As spectacular as the Tomcat is I wish they had made that film with Phantoms. At least VF-111 still exists with theF-5s while VF-84 became VF-103. (Off topic I know but when you compare how RAF units have changed numbers the USN system seems even more confusing.)

Lovely model and a great film - the action sequence as they do the mass launch and the fly by of the whole CAG are memorable. Another vote for hating to paint white - I always use Halfords white primer, rubbed down a bit then Klear before decals.

@Dean1700 You might find a few in my thread here useful. https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235116205-nmusaf-xy/ She is a beauty in person!

I've never had that problem but two thoughts come to mind. First, did you wash the sprues to wash off the release agent? Second, those spots all look circular for which I have no suggestion at all.

Interesting question (at least for us Phantom obsessives!) and certainly not a simple answer. First, it’s worth noting that the Phantoms flown by the Thunderbirds were painted white as the panel construction led to a patchwork effect less noticeable on previous a/c used by the team. Next, I believe the rear keel, behind the jet pipes was titanium to withstand the heat. It’s also noticeable that the rear third (ish) of the tail planes (stabilators) is different to the forward section as is the whole of the inner section– that’s before exhaust staining. In addition the area immediately forward and above the jet pipes also appears to be a different metal – again heat related. In WAPJ Phantom – Spirit in the Skies there are two photos of unpainted F-4s. The D (AF??-702) has an all medium gray radome (back to that later) has a red fin cap and looks to be fairly polished although the splitter plate and the intake from it’s lip to the wing root looks to have a brown tinge (but no more). Canopy rails and windscreen frame look painted. The E, (AF??-526) has a much more patchwork finish with the tip of the radome being black and the rear section of the radome being a medium gray with the gun nozzle being gray. The fin cap looks to be fibreglass a sort of yellow/green. There’s also a photo of an E in a light mustard yellow primer. Bear in mind that the radomes were not metal but a radar transparent fibre glass (?) which could be seen black, bare, gray, grey (!!) and on occasion a mucky brown. Also bear in mind that a naked Phantom would have been stripped for repaint and therefore not polished or the repainting would not stick. I suspect if you are expert user of Alclad you could end up with something really interesting. Somewhere on here there was a discussion about the RAF 111 squadron special at the '83 IAT; she was newly painted in the three tone grey RAF finish. Hannants got the scheme wrong, suggesting that she was overall LAG. Somebody involved in the strip and repaint posted pictures of her during the process. >Find the date the decal sheet came out will narrow down the search. @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies might be the man to ask.

A couple of weeks ago there was a debate on Radio 4 with representatives from the arms/defence industry. Apparently alot of equipment, munitions, rockets etc have a shelf life due to seals perishing, explosives losing effectiveness and so on. So it means there's a constant replacement programme (or not but I'll ignore the politics); therefore kit that's close to the end of shelf life is being used up first. Made sense to a layman like me anyway.

@Old Viper Tester, Hi Keith, were the hard wing Phantoms former Thunderbirds aircraft?

Welcome. Now do you mind popping in and finding out if .......😉

@Blacktjet I'm beginning to wonder if you're mixing up two markings. I think the Rolls Royce emblem on XV424 is on a white background. (For what it's worth its white on the 1/48 Hasegawa decals.) However I have had my memory jogged while decaling a Fujimi 1/72 FG.1. On that decal sheet are two small RR zaps on a silver background. They are positioned just forward of the fuselage roundel. Having checked a few RN Phantom photos it looks like a few carried these zaps so maybe that's what you're thinking of.

I'm probably adding 2+2=5 but looking at the 15th of January 2023 makes me wonder about a future Airfix release. https://www.iwm.org.uk/events/Hurricane-unsung-hero

https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/registration/XV486 White in these but entirely possible it was painted or replaced with a black one.