Jim Barr

Thanks for the information everyone. exdraken - great link. Regards Jim Barr

Gremlin Interesting that the refueling probe was only a test; I was able to attend several FIDAE air shows back in the early 20's and the two times that I took photos of the Elkan they had refueling probes, aircraft # 706 & #713. I did go back and look through the three Chilean books from Archivo Fotografico on the Elkan that I picked up and as you say, there are only a couple of shots with the refueling probe and they are of aircraft #713. The laser housing under the nose you say is not a designator but a "finger", could you please explain. Thanks for the info Jim Barr

The Chilean Mirage M5M Elkan were 20 modernized Belgium Mirage 5BAs; the main visual differences from the older 5BAs being a different Vertical Stabilizer, Canards, Laser Designator under the nose, and an In-Flight Refuelling Probe on the right side engine intake. As posted by scotthldr, Eagle Design used to offer an Elkan conversion kit but his site now says that all production has stopped and he does not know when or if it will ever start up again. So your best starting point is to try and find a Wingman Models Mir 5BA kit, they pop up occasionally on eBay but they are not cheap. The Wingman kit uses the Kinetic Mirage IIIE / 5 as a base but has resin parts for the 5BA including the 5BA nose, keel beam flaring, exhaust nozzle, cockpit, later ejection seat, Elkan style vertical stabilizer, and the Chaff / Flare Dispenser that the late 5BA & Elkan had on the right bottom rear side near the wing root. You will have to come up with the Canards (which are easy to make), In-Flight Refuelling Probe, and a Laser Designator. There is a guy in Peru that has released a bunch of really nice 1/48 Mirage conversion and he said he was going to release an Elkan in 2018 but nothing so far; he did recently release a 1/32 Elkan conversion however. In his other 1/48 Mirage conversions you can come up with the In-Flight Refuelling Probe, and a Laser Designator that is close to one on the Elkan but unfortunately he does not have one set that has both in it. When I tried to buy the parts separately the answer was no; really wish he would get around to releasing the Elkan in 1/48. After you have what you need for the aircraft you have to come up with marking but there are none in 1/48; 1/72 and 1/32 yes but no 1/48 that I know of. The guy in Peru said he was going to release some and he has released a 1/32 set and several nice 1/48 Mirage sets including markings for the Chilean M50 Pantera but none have the Elkan on them. He does not have a web site but he is on Facebook listed as Antarki Model Kits Perú but it has not been updated since April; his email address is on there also. Hope this helps Jim Barr

BS-w - Thanks so much for the mast information; so I take it a D.510 could have any of the four configurations depending on the circumstances of the flight? Best Regards Jim Barr

BS_w - Some great information, just wish we could nail down a good reference for what the color of "Kkaki" was. Jure - Thanks for the links especially the profile for White 2, have not seen that one! Yankee Air Pirate - The book can still be found, it is just a bit expensive; starts at $50 and quickly goes up from there. Thanks for the description of the Khaki color. Another question on D.510s fuselage antenna mast; photo and profiles show D.500 / 501 / 510s with no mast, one on top, one on bottom, or one on top and bottom. i.e. the photo of Black 4, (in silver) does not have any, but Black 2 (in silver) has one on top, and Black 1 (in silver) has top & bottom. What was the determining factor, time frame, upgrades, place in formation....? Thanks for the help. Jim Barr

I tend to agree from the answers I have received that Khaki seems to be the correct color, but the problem stays the same; it just changed to what color Khaki? A lot of different khakis out there. Jure - I was planning on No. 265 (R-269), I have only been able to find photos of two 3 Sqn GC II/I D.510s, both in silver; one was No 265 Black 4, the other No 255 Black 1. I have never seen a photo of No 219 only many profiles. I decided on No 265 as the decals for that aircraft are included in the kit so I only have to change the skeleton and #4 on the tail to white. Regards Jim Barr

I am starting the AMG Dewoitine D.510 of 3rd Sqn of GC II/1, the one with the skeleton on the fuselage, and it will have the dark green upper camouflage. Was doing some research to come up with the color of the dark green and that is the problem. I have the very nice book “Les Ailes Dr Gloire No 13, D500-D510” by Patrick Marchand and Junko Takamori and there is a page on French Air Force colors and the color profile for the 3rd Sqd matches the color block labeled Vert Fronce (Dark Green) with a FS # 34201 and a Gunze match of H80. H80 (Khaki Green) is a darkish brown green color but FS34201 is a medium darkish green khaki color. I have also come across WWII Vert Fonce as FS 34062, 34079, or 34096 with 34062 the only one I would call a dark green. Any idea on the real 3rd Sqd Camo color? Question 2 – What color would the cockpit be painted? Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Jim Barr

So Mike, when will your forward missile bay parts be available, really need a set of theses. Thanks Jim Barr

This is what the Lockheed Martin Ft Worth Model Shop uses as reference. Regards Jim Barr

Amaru Will you be doing an Elkan conversion at some point to go along with the decals? Thanks Jim Barr

Andreas Thanks for the break down on what sprues are omitted in the two Mirage based kit and the reasons; that was very helpful. Will Wingman be releasing any other kits based on the Kinetic Mirage III/5 kit? I know that there are a lot of us with a wish list of other variants that we would like to see And will Wingman be releasing any of the Mirage resin upgrades as separate items in the “FixIt” range like you did for the Kfir? Regards Jim Barr

Well the real truth to that is Chuck was paid a lot of money to be a "fan". Regards Jim Barr

I have the kit and when comparing the spine to the real bis the area that most concerns me is where the spine starts at the back of the canopy to about 3/4 of the way past the front of the wheel well "bulge", it dips down too far giving the model a mini SMT look. Add in as you mention that there seems to be something a little off from where the spine meets the vertical stabilizer until it stops, not much but "something". I hope I am wrong and my MK I eyeballs are off. Regards Jim Barr

What did you think about the shape of the spine? Regards Jim Barr

Glad to see the "Iranian Tigers at War" coming on the market; we exchanged some e-mails back in '03 and '04 about the Iran F-5s and you mentioned you were going to bring out a book on the subject, will look forward to picking that one up. Regards Jim Barr