StevieD
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Posts posted by StevieD
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No, not the one from the Battle of Britain but Spitfire Vc (AR612 VL-U) of his final flight.
Lane returned to operational flying after a spell in the Middle East and time at an OTU. He was posted to 167 Squadron, RAF Ludham on December 9 1942. Four days later, he led a section of 4 Spitfires on a fighter sweep along the Dutch coast. He was last seen chasing a FW190 inland and failed to return.
My question is would this aircraft have had clipped wings? Can’t find any photos of 167 Spitfires apart from a detail of tail damage.
From the Spitfire Production list: AR612 Manufactured West Bromwich. Engine Merlin 46. 39MU 24-8-42. 610 Squadron 11-9-1942. 167 Squadron 11-9-1942.
I’ve an old friend who has a cottage on the perimeter of what was RAF Ludham so I’m building the 1/48 Eduard Vc for him.
Many thank for any help.
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Without doubt, the love child of a Ju88 and a Do 17
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Yes a 103 Battle. Take a look at this describing the loss of PM L in another attack on May 10. Clearly shows unusual roundel / code positions
https://www.belgians-remember-them.eu/crash-lux-hotto1.php
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And just to throw in another theory….
I plan to model Ju88 4D+DR shot down near Bridlington Waterworks by Flt/Sgt Hopwell of 616 Squadron. This is always credited as a ‘Ju88C’ However a photo of this aircraft on display (give it a google) clearly shows the glass nose of an A1 or A5.
Researching this sometime ago I came across an explanation that ‘C’ was an operational subvariant that indicated fuel tank capacity like this….
/A (no fuselage fuel), /B one internal fuselage tank, /C two internal tanks, /F one internal, and up to two droptanks (plus cameras).
So 4D+DR is a Ju88A1/C
Can’t vouch for the source but I think he was German and seemed pretty well read on this. Seems plausible.
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Just found my reference to the friendly fire incidents...
‘Flack mistook a Heinkel He 46 and then a Stuka for enemy aircraft. Alerted by a red letter on the upper surface of the Stuka’s wing Flack’s apparent failure to notice the black Balkenkreuz thinly edged in white alongside, it was proof of the inadequacy of the Luftwaffe’s nation insignia when seen in plan view. Flack’s later reporting of the incident led to such markings being overpainted in black – later still in the Russian campaign Luftwaffe unite eschewed red Staffel markings to avoid confusion with the Soviet star.’
From ‘Bf110 Zerstorer aces of WW2’ Osprey Aviation
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Hard to see how red would have been used given there were friendly fire incidents in the opening days of the Polish campaign where Luftwaffe pilots mistook red codes on their own aircraft for the red in the Polish markings. I could be wrong but yellow seems likely...
https://www.ipmsstockholm.se/home/camouflage-and-markings-of-messerschmitt-me-109/
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I’m looking for a display case for a 1/48 WW2 fighter. Ideally something around 210mm x 210mm. Looking on Hannants there doesn’t seem to be anything. Can anybody point me in the right direction? Thanks.
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Sgt Meryn Sprague. 11 September 1940
602 ORB Scant detail throughout. Every day ‘Duty’ is recorded as ‘Patrol’ with no indication of whether combat took place. Aircraft serial and pilot are recorded as well as ‘Time Up’ and ‘Time Down.’ The ‘Remarks’ section is always blank.
602 ORB - September 11. Eight spitfires are recorded under a Patrol where ‘Time Up’ is 15.45. ‘Time Down’ for seven of these is between 16.30 and 16.40. The other Spitfire, (N3282 Sgt. Sprague) is 16.10 as ‘Time Down.’ Reading just the ORB you would assume Sprague returned early due to engine problems or similar - obviously that wasn’t the case.
602 combat report. 11 September
Compiled from pilot reports by OH Cranbrook Intelligence Officer. Eight Spitfires of 602 to patrol at 19,000ft. Combat took place at 16.10 about 5 miles off Selsey Bill. 20-30 Do17 and 20-30 Me100 were sighted 3000ft below. 213 Squadron Hurricanes were to engage the bombers, 602 the fighters.
“Blue 1 and Blue 2, Green 2 and Red Section in line astern dived to attack Me110s which had formed a defensive circle. Green 1 was suspicious that Me109s might be present so flew a full circle of the e/a at 19,000ft and was shortly attacked by 109s and compelled to dive to 8,000ft to escape.”
The report then gives extracts from combat reports of different pilots. It concludes:
“7 Spitfires landed Westhampnett by 16.35 hours. OWN LOSSES – S/P Sprague missing.”
The ORB ‘Time Down’ for Sprague of 1610 makes no mention that he came down in the channel. The last mention of Sprague is as ‘Green 2’ in the line astern attack. Given that Green 1 (McDowall) pulled out of the attack, could it be that Sprague followed him and was caught by the 109s McDowall had to dive to escape? No one will ever know.
The Battle of Britain (like most battles) is told through the leaders, aces, medals, big engagements. Yet the great majority of the battle was made up of events like this. Young men thrown into combat, whose luck ran out in weeks or even days, who simply disappeared unknown and unrecorded in our history books. Their contribution and courage were no less than that of the greatest of aces.
With the ORB and combat reports not giving individual aircraft letters, and thanks to your efforts, I’ll go with ‘LO P’ as Mervyn Sprague’s aircraft on September 11. Once complete one of the local pubs or the café will display ‘The Alberts Spitfire’ as part of our history.
Thank you.
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Many thanks for all your help with this!
I’ve dug around in the National Archives and come up with 602 ORB and combat reports. More of that later.
I came across Mervyn Sprague after being asked to write the history of the area where I live. This small community - the Alberts - is made up of 400 workers’ cottages in Richmond Upon Thames. Built in the 1870s they were home to families who built and serviced the villas and big houses that now surround them. I was fortunate to be given oral histories recorded in 1980 from residents in their eighties whose memories of day-to-day life, go back well before WW1. Fascinating listening.
The ‘big houses’ they worked on are mentioned, but only one ‘well-off’ family is named. The Spragues were remembered with affection by several residents. They lived at 43 Kings Road, Richmond a few hundred yards away from me. Colonel Sprague served in the Field Artillery in the First War. His wife was a respected local councillor, ‘a lovely woman’ one resident recalled.
Their only son Mervyn was born in 1910. After school he joined his father’s accountancy firm and served in the RAF 'F' Reserve from 13th May 1935 until 14th May 1938 when he joined the RAFVR. He was called to full time service at the outbreak of war and in in June 1940 was posted to 602 Squadron at Drem. On August 12 the Squadron moved south to relieve a battered 145 Squadron at Westhampnett.
On September 9, war came to the Alberts. At 4am bombs fell across Richmond Hill (possibly from a bomber that strayed too far west of London). Incendiaries fell on 2 houses in the next street, the fire gutting both. At 6pm the same day one resident coming home from work looked up to see “our fighters coming down on the Jerries!” Moments later he was blown off his feet as a stick of bombs destroyed several big houses. The whistles of ARP wardens were heard as they raced through streets on bicycles shouting “You must leave immediately and as you are!” With UXBs in the area, residents were evacuated, unable to return for days.
One house that took a direct hit and later demolished was 43 Kings Rd. The Colonel and his wife weren’t at home but worse was to follow. Just two day later their son was posted ‘missing in action’ after combat over the Channel. Mollie Sprague - his wife of just 4 months -didn’t give up hope. After all, her husband had bailed out on August 25 and was picked up by a Walrus. She rented a caravan near Westhampnett and visited the airfield every day. On October 10, the body of Sgt Mervyn Sprague came ashore on a Brighton beach. He’s buried in St Andrew's churchyard, Tangmere.
I’ll post my findings from ORB and combat reports from September 11 about Sgt Sprague’s last flight later when I’ve been through them properly.
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Hello
I’m thinking of having a crack at a Spitfire whose pilot lived just up my street.
On September 11, 1940 Flight Sergeant Mervyn Sprague of 602 Squadron was flying Spitfire N3282 when he was shot down and killed over the Channel.
602 is LO but I can’t find the individual code letter for this Spitfire.
Any help greatly appreciated.
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31 minutes ago, greatgonzo said:
'Listen, it was decades ago. I didn't care. If you asked me what colour of the eyes had the lady bartending in Orchard, I might have had a chance, but with the colour of something painted on my plane - no goddamned way!
He sounds a lot like my dad - who was Polish. He didn't give much away but always remembered the women. I dropped into the Orchard a few years ago. All signs of the Poles had gone. Shame.
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5 minutes ago, greatgonzo said:
How about a link? I can surely read Polish ;).
Good idea! It's at the bottom of the page on the right
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5 minutes ago, greatgonzo said:
We do not know what specific planes were flown by Witold Urbanowicz. Yet we can exclude some quite popular presentations in profiles and paintings. The most probable candidate seems to be the P-40K Deacon Sad Sack of Lyndon Lewis - 169 on the tail. 188 is tricky. The number is supposed to be the one for the bird Urbanowicz was supposed to belly land. Lot of supposition and not much confirmation in documents and it was a 'K' anyway.
We know quite well what types were flown by Polish Ace, but, unfortunately, no serials. This P-40 has been a Holy Graal for Polish modellers for years.
Yes I thought it might be tricky. There is a photo of 188 (on a Polish site I can't read) that looks to me like an N with the squared off rear canopy. As far as I know there are no decals for Sad Sack which is why went for 188.
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I know he didn’t have an assigned P40 but after looking at photos and conflicting profiles I’m ready to get cracking on the Special Hobby P40N.
This is my best guess for the one Urbanowicz flew...
Tail code – white ‘188’
OD/ Neutral Grey. Disruptive green patches on the tail (and possibly wings?)
Insignia with white bar - no red or blue outline.
White spinner with OD band at rear.
Shark mouth and eyes.
Any other opinion or info on this aircraft? Would this carry US ARMY under the wings?
Many thanks.
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Thanks for your efforts on this. Yes, it could be something caught in the tram wires but odd it’s so ‘plane shaped.’
My only other thoughts (and with reference to the early days of aviation) is to do with the Fitzwilliams at nearby Wentworth Woodhouse. The Earl was the richest man in Britain and an early air enthusiast. It’s believed he held the country's first ‘air meet’ only a few years after the Wright Brothers flight. As the estate is at most five miles from Worsbrough, I wondered whether there was a connection.
Smedley, the photographer, was a young miner who joined the Army Medical Corps in WW1. So it may be this is post war. I suppose we’ll never know….
Thanks for your interest!
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1 hour ago, John Masters said:
Can you post a closeup?
I've tried to enlarge the plane but the image degrades so much it doesn't tell you any more
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Hello.
I'm usually in WW2 so this is my first time here.
This is a bit of a long shot. Below is a photograph from my village in South Yorkshire. It's not dated but I could be WW1 or a few years after.
Can anyone identify the aircraft? Poor resolution I know but any ideas would be welcome.
Many thanks.
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15 hours ago, Ossington said:
I've just had a quick shufti at the downgraded images, AIR27/2126/11&12. Alas they don't tell you. Hopewell was in A Flight, Green section. No mention of Driffield either.
Many thanks. I always pick a tricky one. Think I’ll go with Denys Gillam’s QJ W. On 15 August Gillam was credited with a Ju 88 shot down five miles off Flamborough Head.
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On this day Sgt James Hopewell was credited with Ju88a1 4D+DR that came down north of Bridlington. 616 codes were QJ at the time but does anyone know the individual code letter for his Spitfire? Many thanks in advance.
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Does anyone know of photographic evidence of the kit subject R4+LK ?
One profile I’ve seen (I know don’t trust a profile) shows this in a possible scheme of splinter RLM 70 Schwarzgrun/RLM 71 Dunkelgrun on the upper surfaces. Wouldn’t mind a bash at that if it could have been a possibility.
Many thanks
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53 minutes ago, KRK4m said:
AFAIK F/O Stachiewicz flew several Wellingtons in 1942. And I'm not sure whether the noseart mentioned comes from Z1259. I have never seen any photo showing this noseart while still on the Welly nose. The Airfix Wellington is Mk.Ic, while Mk.IV was based on the Mk.III airframe - thus there are plenty of minor differences in control surfaces, fuselage glazing, gun turrets, a.s.o. However I'm not the expert there.
There's no need to fabricate this decal, as ModelMakers set is available both in 1/48 and 1/72 versions https://polish-made.com/pl/p/D48131-Vickers-Wellington-in-Polish-service-part-I/4109
The "puss in boots" is the character not widely known in the pre-WW2 Polish reality. Thus it can be the other way round: the Z1259 came to the No.301 Squadron already with this noseart painted by the crew of the RAF squadron that has used her earlier. And this is the reason why Model Makers show the inscription as "To Berlin". If the Poles were to modify the text, it would be "na Berlin", as "do Berlina" is only some delicate call for the civil excursion. Thus IMHO the variant exhibited now in Hendon is the result of some - not deeply researched - activity of the RAF Museum personnel (not polonised in any way of course).
Cheers
Michael
Wow! Many thanks for this.
I will have to go back to the museum and photograph this. all I can say -relying on memory - is that DO BERLIN looked like it was un-retouched. Also the 'puss in boots' character - again as far as I remember - is wearing a Polish beret. (My father was in II Polish Corp and I have photographs of him in a similar beret.)
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Thanks for that! Yes the 301 Squadron site shows nothing, although one Wellington carries a witch that looks like it may be from the same artist.
Regarding 'Berlin', the nose art at Hendon reads DO BERLIN without the 'a.' Maybe the crew were getting anglicised. Strangely the Model Makers Decal sheet has TO BERLIN
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At Hendon last year I came across a piece of nose art on a wall. Alongside a polish chequerboard is a ‘puss in boots’ character brandishing a sword while riding a bomb with the inscription 'Do Berlin!’ It had no explanatory caption.
Despite much searching I couldn’t find a photo of any aircraft carrying this nose art. Then I came across a Model Makers Wellington decal sheet that shows the aircraft as 301 Squadron GR-O serial Z1259. This Wellington was flown by F/O Mieczysław Stachiewicz who sadly died of Coronovirus this April at the grand old age of 102.
Questions…
1. I’ve seen a photo of GR-O (Hemswell 1942) but not from the side that carried the nose art as described above. Does anyone have photographic evidence of the nose art on the aircraft?
2. I was thinking of modelling this using the Airfix kit but GR -O was a Mk IV. I think that would mean finding a couple of Pratt & Whitney Twin Wasp engines, but are there any other differences?
Many thanks if you can help with this.
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Ground crew on Polish squadrons were Polish as they all come across at the same time. Took then a while to adapt to English technical manuals etc but as far as I know 303s would have been Polish
Brian Lane's Spitfire
in Aircraft WWII
Posted
Many thanks. I’ll go with the standard wing. Also found this.
https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/1060021103
The King and Queen visiting 56 and 167 Squadrons on 28 January 1943. 167 Spitfires shown from 1:30. VL B returning from a sortie caused great excitement! He’s just shot down a Ju88 harassing shipping and this was apparently witnessed by the Royal visitors. Also shows Typhoons, Anson and a Walrus.