detail is everything

A lot of TR33s had the radar removed from the nose and the resultant hole capped. Often mistakenly thought to be a later more aerodynamic radar nose. See and

In the bad old days, there was a policy of painting exhibits to suit the display set up. Hence you have a post war AS.6/ECM.6 Avenger with the ball turret removed and the greenhouse extended, plus numerous other detail changes, painted up as a WW2 vintage MKI or MKII. The equivalent of painting up a MK15 Seafire to look like a MKIII. Luckily policy has now changed and colour schemes and markings are treated forensically as integral to the history of the airframe concerned, as shown by the treatment of the Corsair and Martlet. I can understand a scheme unconnected with the airframe being used where multiple airframes have been used to restore a very rare example, or where the airframe wasn't used by regular squadrons but but for trials etc. only. That's why I think the Fulmar could do with a new paint job.

A completely anonymous and inaccurate scheme. Given the airframe's non-military history, I have often wondered why the museum doesn't paint it as another Fairey Fulmar Mk. II which actually saw military service. Say one from 809 Naval Air Squadron FAA, HMS Victorious 1942 Operation "Pedestal" (Malta Convoys), or Operation "Torch" (Allied invasion of French North Africa). Not only would they be more interesting schemes, it would also be a nod to Operations "Pedestal" or "Torch" .

Thanks for the corrections peeps. Dana didn't mention the 14ft hanger problem, I just referred to his figures. It was I who assumed the 14ft hanger problem resulted in the short short wing clip. What you say makes sense and it had nothing to do with the 14ft hangers, but was due to the changed stance of the aircraft with the new raised tail wheel assembly, which actually raised the folded height slightly. When I think about it, how could it be to do with the 14ft hangers! As @tempestfan says, that would have meant a whole chunk of wing removal and almost certainly a wing fold redesign (possibly along the lines of a Seafire double wingfold). Everyday is a learning day.

Looking at p3 of Dana's Corsair 2015 Air Pictorial No 8 book (vol 2 on the F4U-1 Corsair), I note the following given figures. With wings folded for storage, the F4U-1 Corsair stood 16 ft 6 in tall. This was incompatible with the 16ft minimum clearance hanger decks of the British Illustrious class carriers. All British Mark Is, and early Mark IIs and IIIs were delivered with US Navy (long) wingtips. Most were then shipped to Roosevelt Field (near Idlewilde) where Andover Kent installed 'short' wingtips. Which reduced the wingspan from 40ft 113/4 in to 'about' 40ft. So I make that about 6ins off each wing. Aircraft that moved through the system before the short wingtips were introduced often flew with the long wings for quite some time. Andover Kent provided wingtip kits to Britain for installation there. Later Mark IIs and IIIs were delivered with Briggs-installed short wing tips - with no rework required. The newer generation of British armoured aircraft carriers (Indomitable, Implacable, and Indefatigable) had even lower 14ft minimum clearance hangar decks than the Illustrious class carriers, so Corsairs with short wingtips still wouldn't fit. This led to the "short short" wingtips , which removed the earlier short tips (or any surviving USN tips) and fitted a new Andover Kent fiberglass unit. This was retrofitted to most surviving Mark IIs and Mark IIIs, but apparently not to Mark Is. All Mark IVs were delivered with the short short tips. These shorter 'short short' wingtip clips reduced the wingspan to 39ft 91/2 in, so I make that a further 11/4 in off each wing for a total of just over 7 in. Whilst the figures differ slightly, I think the answer to your original question is the often quoted "8 inches removed from each wing", must relate to the 'short short' wing tips.

The two pictures of of Sea Gladiator (interims) shown in this topic are from 804 NAS in 1940. The above photo of N2276 H and other photos of 804 NAS Sea Gladiators (for example on p78 of the Stuart Lloyd book) show the main features which are most often interpreted wrongly in illustrations. @iang I remember discussing this with you on the old IPMS SIG site back in 2003. All of the squadron's Sea Gladiators appear to have the Watts two blade propeller with no aerodynamic prop hub caps, fin flashes which cover the entire fin area and yellow individual squadron aircraft ID letters (I am not aware of any evidence of black or red ID letters). Yellow is unusual for a frontline squadron, but this was very early in the war before aircraft identity code colour protocols standardised. Some Norway era Skuas had colourful ID letters (possibly related to flight colours). The yellow surround of the roundel is a useful reference when considering the airframe ID letter colour as they remain consistent with each other despite the use of different film types and filters. The background colour of the bat or eagle emblem on N2276 H seems closer to the S.1.E grey than the roundel yellow. I believe contemporary records describe the emblem to be an 'eagle'. Do we have anymore info on this emblem? The photo of N2272 G doesn't show either end of the airframe and so others have guessed, showing the aircraft with the later three blade prop and even a camouflaged fin as per TSS (Carrier Fighters, David Brown). I see no evidence of a black code G. I think if it was black, you would clearly see part of it between the two right hand figures. Instead, I think you can just make out the lower corner of the G in a shade consistent with roundel yellow. Corgi show N2272 as having the definitive recessed arrester hook with the three blade prop and Black G code. Unfortunately this will be read as gospel by some, who will expect them to have done their research. I see the Osprey 'Gloster Gladiator Aces' book portrays N2272 thus so Corgi may have been relying on Osprey to get it right.

If you search "short short" in this forum, you will see several mentions of the wingtip mods made for FAA Corsairs. They include the following All outer wing panels were built and painted by Briggs, regardless of an aircraft's the final manufacturer. Eventually, tail surfaces were also painted by subcontractors. - All Mark Is, and early Mark IIs and IIIs were delivered with US Navy (long) wingtips. Most were then shipped to Roosevelt Field (near Idlewilde) where Andover Kent installed short wingtips. Paint and dope priming was removed from the tips with solvents, stitching was removed, and the fabric was pealed back from the wingtips. Outer ribs and spars were sawed off, new Andover Kent plastic (generally fiber glass) tips were installed, the fabric was pulled back over the new wingtips, trimmed, stitched, doped (for tautening and sealing), and recamouflaged with enamels. Photos indicate that most of the shortened wingtips were only slightly different shades than the rest of the wing surfaces. - Aircraft that moved through the system before the short wingtips were introduced often flew with the long wings for quite some time. Andover Kent provided wingtip kits to Britain for installation there. - Later Mark IIs and IIIs were delivered with Briggs-installed short wing tips - with no rework, the tips weren't repainted. - Introduction of the "short short" British wingtips meant that the rework process was repeated - fabric was pealed back, old short tips were removed, new short short tips were installed, and the tips were recamouflaged. Andover Kent performed the work on many new Mark IIs and IIIs, but most of these modifications were performed by British crews using US-supplied tips. Since Mark Is weren't going to the newer British carriers, short short tips were not provided for these aircraft. - All Mark IVs (Goodyear-built) were delivered in Glossy Sea Blue (with Non-specular Sea Blue antiglare panels) with short short wingtips. The first aircraft received outer wing panels camouflaged in FAA-patterned enamels; BuAer told Goodyear to overspray the enamels with GSB lacquer; as you might expect (though no one back then did), the lacquers tore up the enamels, forcing a complete strip and repaint of the outer panels. Subsequent Mk IVs wore a mix of dopes and enamels, with slight differences in tone between fabric and aluminum surfaces.

I've gone to the Jet Age Museum to see if there is any Gloster Aircraft Company archive material which might help regarding the interim Sea Gladiator arrestor hook arrangement. I'll share what they share

I would recommend getting hold of Windsock Datafile 103 on the DH6 (https://www.windsockdatafilespecials.co.uk/103-amc-dh6-238-p.asp). There were various changes introduced to the design, including the introduction of wing stagger and the use of different engines.

So I assume that as the Buffalo photographed on Eagle undergoing carrier landing trials, was neither painted light grey nor had (as far as we know) an arrester hook, these are not the same aircraft. The photo of the Buffalo undergoing the trials shows it was probably either still in its modified Belgium scheme or possibly TSS. We also assume Crosley would know his Martlet III from his Buffalo, so it isn't mistaken identity 'The few Brewsters in Britain were naval fighter trainers so Crosley would probably have known, even though not flown them.' It also seems they would not have originated from the Mediterranean but put on board in the UK after Eagle's refit ' So for Crosley’s tale to be true those two Buffalos were sitting in Eagle’s hangar for two months while she was in refit. Seems distinctly odd and not a usual practice particularly with so many RN air stations in the Liverpool area. Certainly later in the war aircraft were towed from Liverpool docks to the airfield at Speke. That then raises another possibility. That they were put aboard her in Liverpool for her to transport elsewhere. Eagle did go back to the Clyde to pick up her squadrons.' The only light grey and hooked Buffalos at the time would be those being operated by the USN. So could it be that Crosley saw some USN Buffalos being transported by Eagle to somewhere? Just putting that mad idea out there

I now recognise that as the B-339Bs were shipped to the UK for the RAF and not immediately transferred to the Admiralty on arrival but transferred a couple of months later after the RAF rejected them in leu of their own B-339Es. Seems unlikely therefore that they would have been repainted in TSS immediately after being offloaded. However, as time went by, I think flying examples in Naval service would have gradually become more 'navalised' in appearance as they went through deep maintenance cycles including repainting and remarking by naval maintenance units. Naval MUs would have naval aircraft paints in stock. I guess those machines which became ground instructional airframes, probably remained in the camouflage scheme they last flew in.

The latest Scale Aircraft Modelling article on the Brewster Buffalo, which includes British examples, got me revisiting this topic. I suspect you are right. The B-339Bs were not immediately transferred to the Admiralty on arrival but transferred a couple of months later after the RAF rejected them in leu of their own B-339Es. Seems unlikely they would have been repainted in TSS straight away, if ever, given that those few which stayed in the UK, were primarily used for training/ground instruction, and most were packed off to Egypt where the Belgian colour scheme would have suited their environment and initial air defence use role. However, I think the survivors would have gradually become more 'navalised' in appearance as they went through deep maintenance cycles including repainting and remarking by naval maintenance units. I believe they may have later been used for convoy protection and coastal patrol duties as part of the NFS and TSS would make sense for this more overwater role. When 805 Sqn moved to the Western Desert in August 1941 with their Martlet IIIs, the surviving Buffalos remained in Egypt, possibly later flown by 775 Sqn pilots in the fleet requirements role. AX815:G might be one of these. This might mean the G was in yellow, reflecting its second line role. Then again, perhaps TSS is just wishful thinking.

A good point well made.

The whole subject of FAA Buffalos is discussed here I set out my case for TSS in

AS521 was an Oxford I. The first batch of B-339B buffalos (AS410-AS430), arrived aboard HMS Furious July 1940. Many were transferred directly to the Admiralty on 21 November 1940 and some then went to Egypt and Crete. A second batch (AX810-AX820), arrived in August 1940, all transferred directly to the Admiralty 31 Oct 1940 and all transported to Egypt. Captain Eric "Winkle" Brown's account of flying a B-339B Buffalo at RNAS Yeovilton in early 1941:- "These aircraft had been stripped of all specialist naval equipment and ferried from Canada to Britain aboard HMS Furious. They arrived in July 1940 and were assembled and repainted at Burtonwood." Of the first batch, the following serials are not noted in "FAA Aircraft 1939-1945" as transferred directly to the Admiralty in late 1940. AS410, AS411, AS412 (later transferred to Admiralty training and instruction), AS414, AS417 (later transferred to Admiralty training and instruction), AS429, AS430. That's not to say they weren't, just that records of transfer to the Admiralty were not recorded in the book. A couple of Buffalos from this batch AS417 and AS427 were photographed wearing RAF style camouflage, including the sky spinner and fuselage band. Whilst both airframes (along with AS426) ended up as Navy ground instructional airframes, I suggest that AS417 and AS427, were initially used by the RAF. Perhaps as the Belgium top colours weren't far off the TLS brown and green, they only had their under surface colours painted? Many FAA UK land-based units, especially training units but even some frontline FAA aircraft in this category such as 885 NAS's Sea Hurricane Is and 804 NAS’s Martlet Is, partly or wholly followed the RAF camouflage instructions for land based fighters. AS417 is recorded as delivered to 759 Sqn Yeovilton May 41 and could well have had an RAF career prior to transfer to the Navy. Many tired ex RAF aircraft transferred to Navy training units, at least initially, retained the camouflage they were transferred in, especially if going to be non-flying instructional airframes. This high contrast camouflage scheme is very similar to that worn by the RAF's similar B-339E Buffalo Is and looks different to that of airframes transferred to the Admiralty which I argue, despite everyone insisting that they retained their original USA delivery colours whilst in service, is Temperate Sea Scheme if assembled in the UK for the Admiralty and at least (possibly) initially the retained USA delivery scheme if transferred directly to the Middle East and before they eventually went through Navy maintenance units in Egypt (if they lasted long enough to reach their deep maintenance cycle). Naval machine Contrast with original delivery scheme for Belgium