Sydhuey

Sorry nothing from me, never really looked much as Aussie Mossies. Boston's , Beaufighter's ,B-25's , Catalina's and Sunderland's are my main interest.

Have lots of photo's Graham , OD IIIA's in UK, Night Intruders with 18 Sqn Italy, just too much of a pain to put on here.

Graham , yes there were A-20A's in the two tone scheme but none I can positively ID in Australia, I'm not completely ruling it out we get all sorts of schemes still being thrown up , All the A-20A's were second hand aircraft when they got to Australia in early 42, (A-20A's delivered to the USAAF between Nov 40 and Aug 41) approx 60 of the 140 odd built A-20A's served in Aust/NG with many being worn out on arrival and needing O/H before going to NG and the two tone is not a scheme that has jumped out at me. Schemes other than OD over NG have been id's on P-39's, P-40's, B-17's operating in NG but these were almost all new build aircraft diverted from other operator deliveries there is a great colour picture on the web of a machine in the two tone scheme still with red markings applied in the US and colour movie of 89th BG A-20A's in NG in which they look Olive Drab. Yes RAF Boston's were in the OD/NG scheme before the Boston IV/V, RAF Boston IIIA's (BZ196 to BZ399 serials)(A-20C's), some were in the std RAF scheme DG/DE over sky but most of the Boston IIIA's were in std factory OD over NG, there is a couple of good films of French Boston IIIA in particular 342 Sqn (the French had their own photographers/film maker at 342 Sqn so there is quite alot of images of 342 Sqn Bostons), Similar with RAF Mitchell II's art work still gets around of them in DG/DE over sky when almost all were std OD over NG. Boston III (Wxxxx, Zxxxx and ALxxx series serials ) were in the std DG/DE over Sky in the UK Boston IIIA (BZ series) almost all in OD/NG but some in DG/DE over Sky A-20C's (originally used US serial but eventually renumbered in the HK series ) (diverted from USSR deliveries in exchange for Spitfires)delivered in OD/NG but as almost all used in NA/Italy ended up DG/DE over Black

This is a work in progress, couple of corrections to be carried out and updated info, will be updated after the 3 articles have been published

If you want info on RAAF Boston's read the latest ADF Serials Newsletter http://www.adf-serials.com.au/newsletter/ADF-Serials Telegraph Vol 11 Iss 2 v3b.pdf, this is Pt 1 on DB-7B's in RAAF service , Pt 2 will be A-20C/A-20A and Pt 3 A-20G's.

Personally I think his art work is a shocker , colour film and photo's of 89th Bs A-20A's show them in the std single OD over NG , some early A-20's and A-20A's were in a two tone scheme in the US and Panama but in my probably 50-60 pictures of 89th A-20A's no where would you definitely say there are any in a two tone scheme. OD when it fades gives the impression of multiple colours , look at the wrong Interpretations of RAF Boston IIIA's (A-20C's), many thought they were in RAF DG/DE (some did get repainted but the overwhelming majority of RAF Boston IIIA's where in OD over NG) when they were just faded OD. The DB-7B's were in std factory (RAF Colours) of Dark Green/Dark Earth over Sky, these were diverted from the RAF contract not specific to the Dutch order for DB-7C's (which never got build , build to DB-7B specs and shipped to the USSR), these Boston's still had their RAF ALxxx serials on them when delivered (RAAF records from early April 42 still refer to them as ALxxx serials (03 Apr 42 2 AD Richmond AL358, 364, 365, 367, 892 became A28- 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 , the A28-xx was applied mid April 42) , just the Dutch D-xx number added on the nose and Dutch triangles on lower wing and fuselage positions covering the original RAF roundels, RAAF roundels were applied to upper wing and fuselage sides (just reapplied the same RAF markings as originally applied as the RAAF used at that time) and the ALxxx covered by A28-xx , initialy RAAF Boston's didn't run lower wing roundels but these were applied before deployment to NG . I have played with the original fuselage skins taken from A28-8 DU-J during its restoration and I was able to pick layers of paint off the roundel area revealing about 7-8 layers of paint , RAF roundel (4 colours), Dutch triangle (2 colours) re application of RAF style roundel (4 colours) then the overpaint of the yellow outer ring and red dot. Only variation to the DB-7B's was as they were damaged (belly landed) the Sky was overpainted in RAAF Sky Blue, this was not done all at once but as they were repaired , I don't think the last Sky underside disappeared till probably mid 44, in Jul 44 all remaining DB-7B's were painted in the new allover Foliage Green scheme for RAAF attack aircraft at that time, they also stayed in the DG/DE upper colours till the Foliage Green repaint in Jul 44, they got very faded and any repairs looked like Foliage Green as the original DG was so faded the new paint was very dark. His info on A-20G's (ie late 43 and later) is pretty good but the A-20A and RAAF Boston stuff is way out.

the colour footage is of either 12, 24 SAAF or 18 Sqn RAF , based on Sicily, 12 and 24 converted to Marauders on moving to Italy , and the Boston's scrapped the desert scheme for the original TLS scheme on landing in Italy before taking a night bomber scheme when the Boston units went to the night interdictor role.

Not your fault Jes , the decal sheet represents a Ic in delivery TLS scheme to 31 Sqn not a late model X in the later TSS scheme . To do a RAAF Beaufighter unfortunately you have to ID a serial and Sqn code you want then work out the time frame as to which scheme it is in. As a ballpark the first 54 Beaufighter Ic's were in Dark Green/Dark Earth over Sky, some had the Dark Earth repainted with Dark Sea Grey at 31 Sqn and as they went for overhaul/repair had the Sky replaced with Sky Blue. 55- 187 TSS scheme Extra dark Sea Grey/dark Slate grey over Sky, Sky replaced with Sky Blue thru life of aircraft. 188-217 TSS scheme Extra Dark Sea Grey over Sky post Jun/Jul 44 all remaining Brit build Beaufighters repainted in all over Foliage Green as per Aust build Mk 21's. obviously variations to individual aircraft but you have to research the individual aircraft.

There was a Air Force memo that came out in late 43 stating a list of equivalent colours to RAAF colours that aircraft could stay in to save time and materials painting brand new aircraft twice, can't find it at the moment , its why A-20C's stayed in Olive Drab despite it being faded and Kittyhawks stayed in Olive Drab from the factory, only aircraft that needed the repaint for the role eg: repainting Catalina's for night operations was a repaint carried out , till after Jun 44 when the complete new operational schemes came out.

The Beaufighters are a bit of a minefield, they operated in about 6 differant schemes combinations and 2-3 different sort of roundel sizes they were delivered with factory sky undersurfaces and usually got repainted to RAAF Sky Blue after a belly landing or damage (which happened a lot with Beaufighters) , they didn't get repainted when delivered as it was a waste of time and stores to repaint over a new paint job, I don't believe 177 had a repainted underside as the machine was only 5 mths old from arrival in Australia to crashing and being written off, the original B&W picture shows a sharp edged demarcation line between upper and lower colours usually an indication of factory paint , repaints usually have over spray as the weren't masked and a lot of the time the repaints have a scalloped /wavy demarcation line . Roundels are 24" 5:3 ratio not the later 5:2 ratio that came out in Jun 44 . There is a substantial thread in the WW2 section on RAAF Beaufighter colours , that and the ADF serials articles cover the schemes and markings quite well, unfortunately the perception of all RAAF Beaufighter in DG/DE has been around awhile and unfortunately the decal makers had nothing to go off but books like Pentlands while lauded when they came out are now quite dated and wrong, as I said at the start , probably DG/DE RAAF Beaufighters and desert schemed Kittyhawks in Italy are two of the biggest myths that still hang around, with the Kittyhawk even the RAF Museum got the scheme wrong on their restored Kittyhawk.

G'day Jes, the old Pentland RAAF Camouflage and Markings books while great books are more than 30 years old and full of mistakes , the ADF serial newsletter is more recent research, only the first 50 odd Ic's were ever in the Dark Green/Dark Earth Scheme.

Looks good , but unfortunately the scheme is wrong , the late Mk X were in std RAF TSS scheme of Dark Slate Grey/Extra Dark Sea Grey over Sky, 31 Sqn in particular hated the Dark Earth for over water ops and had permission to overpaint the Dark Earth with Dark Sea Grey on their early Mk Ic's, of the 220 odd UK built Beaufighters in RAAF service less than 1/4 were ever in the TLS scheme of Dark Green/Dark Earth, the vast majority were in the TSS scheme of EDSG/DSG. Until recently most decal sheets were wrong , DK decals have done sheets with the correct schemes. Unfortunatly one of several long term errors that persists , RAAF Beaufighters in TLS scheme and the fixation with desert schemed Kittyhawks in Italy that weren't in that scheme.

Great to see a late model Kittyhawk in the correct Olive Drab/Dark Green and Dark Earth over Neutral Grey/Sky Grey instead of the usually incorrect desert schemes.

The RAAF A-20G's were brand new aircraft so were in very good condition , DU-P the CO's aircraft was very well looked after so was in better condition than would be expected for a normal A-20 in the tropics.

Saw a photo of the twin VGO setup ,from the gunners position (looking aft) the L/H gun has the drum magazine horizontal on top , the R/H gun has it vertical on the R/H side, only way the guns can be close beside each other in the turret, single and twin VGO's didn't last long only first couple of Mk IA's an Mk II's had VGO' s soon went to the twin Brownings.

Excellent time line for Beaufort mod/upgrades, no such thing as .5 turret and no need for the .5 nose gun, simplifies the what if scenario a bit.

Yes I know that i was just stating the turret was not from a Blenheim V, but the turret is a Mk V version as used in the Blenheim

I think you (or the document) are getting turret designations mixed up , the turret from the Blenheim was the Bristol B1 Mk V and the later turret fitted to late Beauforts is the VE, Blenheim V's ran the Bristol Mk X , never fitted to a Beaufort a completely different turret with guns mounted on each side of turret not side by side in middle.

Thanks for this thread, It got me thinking about the .5 turret an realizing I had never seen a picture with one and that it probably doesn't exist , looking at the size of a Beaufort turret 2 x .50's simply wouldn't fit, 2 x .303 Brownings are approx 36" long and are mounter together in front of the gunner , 2 x .50's in a similar mount would be approx 60 " long and just don't fit , the Martin T50 turret fits 2 x.50's and its turret ring is miles too wide for a Beaufort fuselage, the turret on the Grumman Avenger could only fit one .50 to fit the turret ring size and the Canadians of 422 sqn replaced the single VGO in a Sunderland nose turret with a single .50 only because the VGO was offset to the R/H side and a .50 could be squeezed into the space when it is literally mounter beside the gunner not in front of him . About the only style of turret that may have been able to be modified to take 2 x .50's would be I believer the B1 Mk X turret as fitted to the Blenheim V , this was a wider turret with the .303 browning mounted either side of the gunner. Fixed and nose guns are another thing, provision was made for the .50's in the wings and looking at the nose of a Beaufort , 2 x .50's may have been able to be fitted in a very limited movement mount, fixed .50's in the nose may have been a possibility too as 2 x .50's had previously been fitted in Hudson's and as the war went on it was realised .303's were just about useless for strafing jungle.

Everything is in this kit to do all the versions but those who don't know A-20/Bostons may get the parts mixed up, it doesn't help that the artwork on the box is wrong , A-20B 'Dirty Gertie" runs the same engine cowls as A-20C's with multi pot exhaust out the rear of the cowl , not a single exhaust as in the artwork (Single exhaust outlet only run on A-20A and DB-7B Boston III's), A-20A 40-166 Little Hellion, the 2x Steak and Eggs and the DB-7B (Not DB-7C) Boston III A28-9 run the single exhaust cowl with the tropical cooling holed engine cowls (in real life the smooth and tropical holed engines cowls are the same thing , the holes are 8 x removable panels removed on machines in the desert and pacific but left in on machines in Europe DU-K Sqn codes should be White or very light Sky Blue (almost white) not medium Blue. also of note A28-9 DU-K never did 186 missions , she flew a total of 77 during the war were the 186 came from was a propaganda newspaper article in late 1943. DK decals are about to release decals of 89th BS A-20A Gunships and RAAF 22 Sqn DB-7B Boston III's to match with this kit

Mr Wolfs books are nothing but a collection of info from various sources (usually with no acknowledgment of the source) rolled into one book, look at the piece on RAAF A-20/Boston's he has taken almost word for word the narrative from ADF Serials web site on Boston's in the RAAF and used that in his book (I know I wrote the narrative on ADF serials) , he has numerous contradictions in the book , the section he "Borrowed" from ADF serials explains how the Dutch got DB-7B's diverted to them while they waited for their purpose built DB-7C's , these DB-7C's were never delivered to the Dutch and were build to DB-7B spec and went to Russia he then says in the section on Dutch Bostons that DB-7C's were delivered to the Dutch , so he has no correlation between his stories . The Warpaint #32 by R. Caruana is still the best most accurate book on A-20 Boston/Havocs and that little paper back gem came out 20 years ago. I have the B-25 and A-20 books from Wolf and they are full of other peoples info , with lots of mistakes and miss identified photo's. they are not 'Ultimate Books" some good info but they need another editor to fix all the mistakes.

MPM markings are wrong , roundels are 5/2 ration not 5/3 , the fuselage roundel on DU-P is a unique 40" roundel , upper and lower wing roundels are 48", DU-P is white not Sky Blue. Use markings from DK decals , there is a new sheet coming out soon with Hilda Shane on it with correct markings and updated nose art. DK72096, Hilda Shane was the CO's aircraft WC Colin Woodman so was well looked after , paint in good condition with polished metal spinners , this was a brand new A-20G-40 delivered to the RAAF in Jul 44 and destroyed in Nov 44 so except for the nose area and engines very little weathering.

I have read in RAF related articles Catalina IVA and IVB had the fuel dump from factory , both are late model PBY-5's so just need to know when they became available as a field kit.

I notice a lot of models have the fuel dump pipes fitted under the wings though looking at photo's they only appear to be fitted from late 1943, does anyone know when the fuel dump kits were fitted?

Wreckage of Spitfire VIII A58-364 ZF-L 549 Sqn RAF at end of strip, not sure if Aust or UK tank , will get photo's and dimensions.