Bengalensis

I am not talking any record, it's only about speed records.

As I was again finding myself peeking around the parts in the new huge Dragon box I thought I would stack together my "old" Airfix Saturn V for a look. It sits in three sections at the back of a too low vitrine, which is really a shame. So I took it out, stacked it up and got a few pics. It was built 10 years ago, the plastic I think is all straight from the box, including the wrong size/type CSM on top. It is the issue of the kit that was on the shop shelves at that time. I did order and paid for a proper CSM in resin back then, but it never arrived. I somehow forgot about that episode and just a built it. The paint and decals I researched as best I could on the web, and I drew and printed all the decals myself. It's pretty basic, but I had a good time building it.

I agree completely, it is Booooo, I would really like to see the Falcon in. But in a tighter speed record format I can't see how. I'm sorry.

I think a speed record should be documented in some way, by some time keepers that made some notes other people could take part of, by other people witnessed or similar, but I think I would prefer not having to limit this to verified official speed record rules by only this or that organisation. I also think the model shall be of the actual vehicle, or at least as close as well known references allow. But if someone reaches speeds that may bee the highest, but then don't want to tell the rest of the world about it, by keeping the happening, the speed or even the whole speed machine a secret, denying the whole thing, is that really a speed record? I don't have a clear answer right now, but I'm certainly in a bit of a doubt. To me a speed record is also about telling the rest of the world that you were the fastest in this type/size of vehicle and so on, not trying to keep what you have done a secret. Now if the rest of the world somehow found out about the secret and could verify that it happened, where, when, how, what speed and with what machine, then I suppose it could count. Generally I would like to say yes rather than no, while trying to remain inside the format. Again, this is for more people to have thoughts about.

Oh yes do I recognize this scenario... In my case it was a plain brown cardboard box with a number of rough parts in that strange cream coloured material and a small paper note with hand scribbled notes and a pencil drawing. It had this special aroma when the box was opened. It was from an obscure underground maker never heard of before from a different corner of the world. I stumbled upon it by accident and it changed hands for a ridiculous amount of cash to become mine. But it was a wonderful subject that the known makers of sterile styrene in colourful boxes that filled all legal shop shelves would never dream of releasing. That was many years ago. My life was never to be the same again. Since that first box of resin I have had to buy an endless row of various obscure boxes and bags from odd underground sources. I also find older no longer available boxes with parts of the addicting material from strange private sources that I must have and they claim horrendous stacks of cash. But I raise my bids over the other competing addicts and often bring them home. I do build them, but yes, many are still in their boxes. But I still think I will live forever and finish them. And I buy more. Always buy more. Today I have a wide network of producers and pushers that supply the stuff from all over the world to fill my needs. It has taken over my life and my economy. I don't have a problem. I can stop any time. If I want to. Actually I do. I will even admit to having chosen resin kits before styrene in some cases.

Right then, let's sober up and get back to the hard core of Speed in the tighter format. It was nice exploring the possibility of widening the Speed idea, and I quite like what it could bring, but I go back to proposing my initial idea. This may not be the final wording of the rules as we can discuss and adjust, but along this idea: ------------------------------- A Speed Record GB open for models of manned powered vehicles on land, sea and air from all times: Having at some point in time held a speed record Having been built to try to break a speed record Speed is here measured in speed terms like Km/h, Mph, Knots, Mach etc. ------------------------------- I changed to "Speed Record GB". Maybe I should change the topic header? I will drop my third criteria "Having been the fastest in this event/race/happening". What I meant it to include is IMO actually included in "Having at some point in time held a speed record". One (of many) examples of this is the W.R. Peugeot at 24 h Le Mans -88, which was not a speed record car, but in the middle of the race the team switched focus, taped up all air intakes and made a final dash for the highest speed ever recorded at the Le Mans track reaching 404 km/h down the long straight which was enough (and actually still stands). Another example may be a Schneider trophy racer that set the highest speed of that years/days race, and things like that. A documented speed record, even if short lived. While this is a much more narrow concept for a GB, it is more defining mankinds search for, and thrill of outright speed. It will still allow for a great variety of subjects of planes, cars, boats, trains and what not. Will it attract enough interest? I don't know, but I think and hope it can. Your thoughts and ideas of this are most welcome.

Jessica, that is very much spot on, that series of pics is very much what I'm thinking about when I thought about opening the limitations a bit. A great selection of Speed from all genres. As one who knows cars especially well I have said that the F1 is not my personal preference of a speed machine, but don't get me wrong, in a more open format it is well qualified.

That was one, probably The one, I was hoping to see from Sci-Fi, as it's well known it is the fastest with a well documented record of Speed. With a Class 0.5 hyperdrive prepared by Jessa it can't possibly be argued against, can it?

Interesting thought Jessica. Not knowing this specific type of warrior/soldier on his horse, but to me he doesn't seem to be anything more about speed than any other horse riding warrior of his time. He isn't unique riding a horse nor does he look faster than other man/horse combinations of his era. But then again, I don't know the subject. Actually a rider on a racing horse, or possibly a war time courier (I just believe they needed to be specifically fast?) on his horse in full speed action would have convinced me far more about the speed motivation of the subject. I don't have a problem that the human is riding an living animal instead of a machine. As long as the animal is well treated and cared for. If we toy the idea that a Speed GB would be a reality in a "loose and open" format, along the lines "MAD" Steve mentioned, would you enter this model and honestly present it to your fellow Speed GB participants as epitomizing speed to you? If you would do that and tell us what it says to you about speed I wouldn't have a problem, even if it wouldn't say the same to me. If it was a Speed GB in a more "narrow" format along the lines of my initial idea and "Triumpfan" Steve's thoughts of "record breakers", it would certainly need to be something like a racing horse.

Steve, the solution you describe is pretty much exactly what I have in mind when I have mentioned "looser format" or "wider perspective" or whatever confusing words I may have scribbled. As I said earlier my first thought was things built more or less only for speed, like speed record machines or extreme machines where maximum is speed is the dominant driving force behind the creation of the vehicle. But, that is probably just because these machines represent true Speed to me, while the F1 car or a Lamborghini Aventador does not, to me that is. Other people have other ideas of what represent Speed to them, and it could absolutely be a good way to do a Speed GB. At this stage I don't think I have a clear preference for the more specific "closer" format or the "loose and open" format. There are pro's and con's with both, while the latter may attract more participants which of course is a good thing. What I do know is that it either has to be a much closer format like: Having at some point held a speed record Having been built to try to break a speed record Having been the fastest in this event/race/happening Or a much more open format like: What is truly epitomizing speed to you This as we can not have a situation where each entry need to be judged and discussed based on individual preferences. We want a happy and joyful Speed GB, not a discussion about who is right.

Giving the satellite thing a second thought over night I do think even a looser format Speed GB should be about vehicles that mankind can travel with. I think it should be manned subjects. The thrill of speed is IMO for mankind to experience it and be part of it.

Actually things like this, and there are many space examples, or even sci.fi examples, are what I would like to be able to see as in a Speed GB as well, beside the obvious speed record cars and planes etc, when I tried to think of the Speed theme in a wider perspective. Again, I understand if my logic may not seem perfectly clear cut to everyone, but as I said I'm tossing around ideas.

Yes, a definition that is easy to understand in short written GB rules needs to be come up with, if a good Speed GB would be a reality. I know I am tossing around a bit of loose ideas here at this early stage. Maybe you are right and "having at some point held a speed record" or "having been built to try to break a speed record" would be wide enough, as my initial idea. "Having been the fastest in this event/race/happening" may be a third criteria? My thinking though was that there are more "speed machines" that would be nice to welcome in, without watering down the speed theme. In my own mind the random F1 car (or even more so the random rally car) is not that much about outright speed (in km/h or mph) as for example a Schneider trophy or a Reno racer (or the YF-12) is, even though they are driven hard to be faster than the opposition, but around a rather twisting circuit (or over twisting stages) with a lot of other things, even things like strategy, playing in as well so outright speed is to a larger degree sacrificed for the total result. I know this thinking and comparison of mine may not be perfectly logical... Or we keep things less tight, and let participants join in with things that are fast and represent Speed to them, including say random F1 and rally cars, if someone want to build that. In the end though I absolutely agree that it has to boil down to some quite clear cut GB rules. It shall not be a pair of hosts having to rule every participant in or out, depending on the "personal preference of the day".

Thanks guys. She is really ready for the gallery as she is now, it's just that I wanted to finish a base. My idea was, actually it still is, to recreate the outline of the car on tarmac, just as the pit area was done during the race. It looked really cool when I saw it in the race, but when I sketched it out the other day on a base it didn't look as good as it did in my head. But I have been convinced to give it a go, and I will. I'm just a bit distracted by the suddenly wonderful spring weather...

Oh yes, I'm with you. I have even found that certain bottles of Shiraz goes especially well with the aroma from some newly opened resin kits.

Haha, I now remember that I have indeed built a helicopter recently, the Vite Aerea. Damn, that would have been perfect in this GB , but I'll stick with the Sea King 66.

IMO well qualified as a "speed machine". I'll admit that "modern" jet aircraft is not what I know best though.

Lovely work and such a beautiful model. Very well done!

Good to see there is some interest in the theme of Speed. Lovely choice the K7, tragic ending though, sadly an ever present shadow when high speed is the goal, but a fantastic creation it was. I have been tempted by the 1/24 vac kit and will have to get one. You're absolutely right, the criteria needs careful defining, and I welcome a discussion about it to guide it right. I tried to put my thoughts and ideas into words in my first post, but it isn't easy. My initial idea when I started thinking about a Speed GB, some time ago, was speed record machines, anything built for speed records. However, I quickly came to the conclusion that it might be a bit too narrow minded. So I thought it could be opened up a bit, while still maintaining Speed as the theme. Take the S6B or the Reno racers, they aren't built for outright speed records, but they are certainly speed machines enough for a Speed GB. I think a Speed GB should be about "creations" built or modified with speed as the dominant criteria, or specific individual vehicles (be it land, air, water etc.) that somehow made a stamp in the "universal book of speed" for some reason. I know I have difficulties putting my thoughts into perfectly understandable words... For example this IMO means that although any F1 car is a very fast car, capable of very high speeds (for a car), it is not a "speed machine" in outright terms, it is much more of a compromise, still able to reach high speeds. I don't think a random F1 car should be eligible in this GB just because it's fast in relative terms, but a specific F1 car may still be eligible if it was prepared or known for its speed, compared to other F1 cars. The same goes for something like a super sonic jet fighter etc.etc. No, I'm not drunk (yet) , I'm just trying to put my thoughts into words. The criteria does need to be discussed and refined.

It's looking so good, especially in this angle. You just have to love it . Well done and looking forward to the last details. I do, and I think it adds a lot. Doesn't need very much to make a difference.

I still thought the mirrors looked like, boring? So I decided to try and give the "glass" a blue tinted look, like I see in reference pictures and on many real cars. I sprayed a thin coat of very thinned down Tamiya transparent blue. And suddenly they looked much better, to me at least. Not sure how much is noticeable, but as I have become really bored with plain photo etched mirror "glass", to be glued on top of plain mirror housings, this was a relief. BTW, the right side glass is mounted like it is on purpose according to some ref pics. I was almost about to call it done earlier in the week, as I thought my idea of a base only looked, well, weird(?) on my initial test print. However, a late evening visit, a very nice one at that, by a few modelling friends later in the week convinced me to go ahead and give it a try. So I will make a little more work. This is where we are now, more or less done.

Thanks, I'll keep looking at CultTVman for the sheet then. I'll much rather buy such a sheet than drawing my own, which would be far from complete or as good. I did draw and print a number of decals for my 1/144 Airfix like 10 years ago, but with this I don't have to go through that old artwork I have stored away somewhere.

I certainly want a set of these. Where do I best buy them? I also notice there are several small decals for the stages missing on Dragons sheet.

Got my kit yesterday. It's a wonderfully big box, filled with parts, many of considerable size, that looks very nice in quality and moulding detail and very inspiring to go through. I won't comment on their accuracy, there will be (and already is) a number of accuracy problems listed, but to me it still looks like it will be a very fun build and great looking model. I have only had time to just open the box for a quick look so far, but I think the font of the big red text isn't quite right, as many have expected, but I haven't compared it so don't take my word yet... The kit now comes with an LM too, it didn't look to me like it would on the first pictures released in march, but the few decals for the LM are not on the main sheet where all others are, but on a small additional sheet, and they are stickers (from their die casts?)... An afterthought in panic maybe? That's my minus so far, otherwise I just really like what I see at this early stage.

Oh, such a thing is most definitely in, no question at all. That's exactly one of so many type of subjects I'm thinking of. I do realise that it is easier to judge almost any racing airplane as "built for outright speed", rather than just any sort of race car for example, but an S6.B is perfect in my book! I also believe to rather welcome people in, rather than keeping someone out, as long as a good motivation of speed is present.