Tom Cooper

Talking about decals, and to make sure: you know you need 'green-white-green' ones for 1956...? BTW, I'm not entirely sure there were any Il-28Rs in Egypt as of 1956. At least there are no photos showing any. It could be they were delivered only after that war.

Don't get upset. I just had to complain. For me, it's not 'just' if EAF Vampires carried rockets or not: 'must know' all the details... Anyway, check my post in the thread here too: http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234950426-60th-anniversary-of-the-suez-crisis-gb-for-2016/page-4

Must complain (at least a bit) first: it's few years now since Arab MiGs Vol. 1 and 2 have been published, so some things should be meanwhile known (in word and in picture). If for no other reason, then because I've mentioned them here too, 1-2 times so far. One of these is that the Egyptians were equipping their Vampires (not all of them, but quite a few; apparently some Meteors too) with 4x double launch rails for their Sakr unguided rockets. These were the same rails that were installed on their MiG-15bis', quite soon after these were delivered - and the same that were installed in well-known fashion on their MiG-17Fs, later on. Now, there are only a few photos available, and I haven't studied these closely. Yet. Reason is that I do plan to do a book on the EAF in 1956 War, but presently I'm too busy with other projects. So, right now, can't really say where exactly were these rails installed on - for example - Vampires. But, if there is some patience, and time, hope to have more time for this sometimes, say, late this or early the next month. (BTW, Soviets had absolutely no say in regards of such - or similar - modifications on Egyptian combat aircraft even at the 'top of their influence in Egypt, between 1967 and 1972. Otherwise, there would be no Su-7BMKs with four underwing pylons, rear-view mirror on the top of canopy, no 800-litre drop tanks for MiG-21s etc.)

Your first link leads to 'expanded' version of the second book (which, in turn, is recycled earlier book, in turn recycled from a certain publication in Russian, written by entirely different authors). Majority of photos are same - except for whatever the authors grabbed from the internet or (more often) scanned from books by other authors published since the Red Star volume came out...

Few observations regarding Egyptian MiG-15bis and MiG-17Fs: MiG-15bis: - original batch of (Czechoslovak-built) MiG-15bis had slipper-type drop tanks - only batches delivered after the Suez 1956 War had pylon-mounted drop tanks. Above-mentioned weapons configurations are in-valid for both types: instead, Egyptians were installing two double launch rails for their Sakr unguided rockets (78mm, if memory serves me well) under the outboard portion of the wing. This modification was introduced already on MiG-15bis' before the 1956 War. MiG-17Fs began receiving such rails only after being replaced by MiG-21s as interceptors, in 1965-1967 period. Later on, MiG-17Fs have received additional hardpoints under the fuselage too: these were capable of carrying bombs up to calibre 250kg.

They've requested them (GBU-24s) already back in the 1990s, and got them at the time too (just like Greeks). Yes, there are no photos, but means not there are none in service: only that photographing aircraft in course of operations is prohibited (and that for good reasons). And the 'rant' is meant for those thinking 'no way have they got them; they can't operate such stuff'.

Firstly, Turkey is a member of the NATO, and the THK is NATO's (i.e. 'NATO-Airshouth's') 6th ATAF. Why shouldn't they have got GBU-24s? NATO's 7th ATAF (Greek AF) is using GBU-24s from its F-4Es already since 1990s... so, where should be the problem...? Secondly, Turkish industry - foremost ASELSAN but also TUBITAK SAGE - is meanwhile manufacturing own (and improved) variants of JDAM and similar weapons (HGK and KGK series), BLU-109-likes (NEB), and even domestically designed, researched and developed stand-off, land attack missiles (SOM). There is a similar range of LGBs (LGK series) based on Mk.82, Mk.83 and Mk.84 warheads, including one with Paveway IV-style Laser+INS+GPS guidance. Currently under development by ASELSAN is SDB-equivalent based on Mk.82 design... Deploying GBU-24s - and plenty of likes - from F-4E-2020s is therefore the least of their problems. Actually, most of herewith mentioned weapons are used in large numbers in ongoing campaigns against the PKK and Daesh in northern Iraq and Syria, respectivelly - by F-4E-2020s and by F-16s.... And finally, we're living in the 21st Century, gentlemen: it might have become known in wider circles too, that countries 'beyond Balkans' are not populated by something like 'spears-throwing barbaric camel raiders' - and that most of technology for weapons in question is anything but 'rocket science' (on the contrary: 'even' Saudis have a domestic production line for Paveways and JDAMs).

Indeed, both of these are fakes - i.e. 3D renderings (particularly 'revealing' are ridiculously small, out of focus, or improperly photoshopped serial numbers and national markings). Photos of armed IRIAF F-14s are extremely rare (except those taken at some of local 'open days'), and nearly always have serials at least partially blotted out (like below). One of reasons is that such photos are mostly showing aircraft that lack operational AWG-9s (or at least fire-control systems) and are used for flying-training or show purposes. FMC-aircraft are rarely photographed, because most of them are used for air defence duties. Another reason is self-censorship by local photographers: since most of them have been arrested in 2009-2011 period (some also sentenced to different periods in jail; few even turned into informants for local 'counter-intelligence'), they began deleting serial numbers from photographs they're putting online. You're welcome, and I hope books might be some interesting reads - then both would do well with lots of updates regarding so many dates, names, places, etc.

Of course they are: they're still the backbone of Iranian air defence. (...and still on 'threat lists' of all the NATO members too.)

If one of their pilots says so, who would like to correct him...?

...it's late and I forgot photos and printed references: Here shots of: - original installation: http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/new%20one/F14-HAWK.jpg - 'fitting and separation' testing (on 3-6073), in 1986: http://upir.ir/934/8888.jpg http://upir.ir/934/ryddwegv0gp80psc99f0.jpg - 3-6060 during 'that' photo-session in mid-1990s: http://upir.ir/934/3xfz90q2nv7cegbfhwm3.jpg - AIM-23C Sejjil on one of recently overhauled (and appropriately modified) IRIAF Tomcats: http://aeronavale-porteavions.com/site/f14/photo/hawk_tomcat.jpg For additional photos and full story, see Iranian F-14 Tomcat Units in Combat and/or Iran-Iraq, War in the Air, 1980-1988. (...and there are additional publications in other languages, some of them more up-to-date.)

Back in good ol' 2008, while Paul Eden (one of best editors in English-language area) was still editor of Scale Aircraft Modelling magazine, we've run a series of 3-4 articles on the IRIAF, including at least two on IRIAF F-14s, describing all their details (i.e. 'differences') markings, modifications etc... (think to recall that series was closed with a construction report of an Academy 1:72 kit)... i.e. 'everything explained' there.... Seems it's about the time to do something similar again, then the info obviously 'went forgotten' over the time... Anyway, originally, this was an ad-hoc modification - run as 'Project Sky Hawk' - in 1986. The MIM-23B was installed directly on underwing AIM-54 hardpoints of the F-14A '3-6073', without any major modification on latter (only some fine-tunning of specific parts of AWG-9). Latter on, the 3-6060 was modified in similar fashion. After several test-firings, the two Tomcats were test-deployed in combat armed that way, and they claimed a Sukhoi Su-22 shot down using MIM-23s. However, overall, this project was not particularly successful: plenty of necessary testing was never done, there was lack of money (and testing facilities, and management skills, and, and, and... ) and it kind of remained 'shelved' (like so many other, similar projects run by different maintenance and sevice departments of the IRIAF). As can be seen on the photo above (and many others, most of which were shot during a specific photo-session in the mid-1990s, and all of which are showing 3-6060 carrying MIM-23s), AIM-9 capability of the hardpoint was retained. Sometimes later, an air-to-ground variant (called 'Yassir' and consisting of MIM-23B's body with warhead of the M117 bomb at the front end), was tested too, but this never entered service. Much later, in mid-2000s, when the IRIAF was granted funding necessary to recover and overhaul majority of its F-14 fleet, some additional Tomcats were modified in similar fashion. The missile meanwhile received official designation AIM-23C Sejjil. It remains in service as such. There was a mini-series 'effort' to make an active-radar-homing variant, but no clue how this ended.

sigh... and that photo is from 1986 - i.e. 'IRIAF' times (once again: as explained thousands of times in print and all over the internet, about ten times so far on this forum, and above in this very thread too: IIAF was re-named into IRIAF in 1979). (Note: I don't mind being countered, questioned, criticised etc., I'm extremely curious and love to learn something new above all... but to be 'corrected' in regards of Iranian air force, and especially its Tomcats, and then in this fashion... oh dear... )

But yes, that's exactly what I said: 'Phoenix only before the revolution'. Though you're right: no fuel tanks. The IRIAF did modell its own, sometimes in the mid-1990s, but these never entered series production (just like so many other of local modifications).

Erm, sorry to nick-pick, Giorgio but... in no way can 'Su-22M' be described as 'export equivalent' of the Su-17M-3. Export equivalent of the Su-17M-3 was Su-22M-3K. Also, there was a 'minor' external difference between the Su-22M (and Su-22M-2K, used in Iraq and Libya only) and the Su-22M-3K: the latter had that small ventral fin. Finally, don't know about examples delivered to other foreign customers, but the only 'major' difference between Su-22M-3Ks (and Su-22M-4Ks) as delivered to Libya and Iraq, and their Su-17M-3/M-4 equivalents in Soviet service was the lack of wiring for deployment of nuclear weapons. Reason: after Soviets botched up so massively with early MiG-23s delivered to these two countries, neither Iraqis nor Libyans were ready to accept anything like some 'downgraded B-export variant'.

Yup, plenty of photos and no useful explanation (as usually)... Anyway: that is so because all Indian Su-7s were delivered in natural metall overall. Most were hastily camouflaged during the 1971 War with Pakistan. There was no standard camouflage pattern at the time and no varnish was used; technicians used whatever colours were available, from black or sand, via brick red to various shades of grey, green or brown. Of course, local weather and intensive operations did their too and before soon the fleet looked like a flock of mustangs... (EDIT: a flock of very dirty mustangs.) But, RR asked about the 'later, "Hunter style" camo scheme', and this certainly had its top base colour not extended to lower sides and undersurfaces (but applied on varnish).

Other weapon types were not yet integrated because the IIAF was waiting for AIM-9Ls and AIM-7Fs. So, when revolution prevented deliveries of these, the IRIAF had to go 'step back' and integrate older AIM-9J/Ps and AIM-7E-4s instead.

...except for what's mentioned above, you'll have to make a decision if you're building an aircraft from times before or after 'revolution' of 1979. - Before 1979: service titles were IIAF, and Tomcats were armed with AIM-54s only - After 1979: service titles were (and still are) IRIAF, and since late 1980, Iranian Tomcats were made compatible with AIM-9J/Ps and AIM-7E-4s (in addition to usual AIM-54s).

AFAIK, the upper sides were actually painted in Light Admiralty Grey, which is quite blue. Lower sides either in some very light grey or left in natural metall. Except for a 40-years old artwork, never saw the paint from the upper side being extended to lower sides.

After reviewing few additional photos, it turns out the THKs F-4Es (means: not only the Terminators) are also armed with GBU-8 (EO-guided bombs), AGM-65s (contrary to some online reports, compatibility with Maveicks was not added only with F-4E-2020s, but was available on earlier examples too), AIM-7Ms and AIM-9Ps. And yes: it seems that Pave Spike is used more often (at least during training) than LANTRIN or LITENING.

Ah yes: Terminators are LANTRIN-compatible too, and regularly carrying them. Re. configuration: LANTRIN + 2x GBU-24s are 'OK', but adding anything like 'dumb bombs' to that would be 'wrong'. Of course, F-4E-2020 can carry these (and there are regular exercises with dumb bombs), but not in combination with any PGMs. Re. JDAMS: think that some were delivered by the USA, but as said, Turks are meanwhile manufacturing their own - and these have a much better range too.

AFAIK, - few AGM-142s, but also some - SOMs (something like Turkish-made SLAM-ER), - HGKs calibre 1000kg (Turkish kits for GPS-homing bombs, with flip-out wings, extensivelly tested on their F-4E-2020s in last few years), and - apparently - some of their Paveway IVs too (Turkey just launched production of GBU-24s with Laser + INS/GPS homing, so it's likely to 'put some of these to test'). Of other weapons they used to, or are still using, on their F-4E-2020s, there are such like: - GBU-10s (with Pave Spike markers) - different CBUs (think these were all withdrawn from service and sold to countries that didn't sign the recent 'no use' agreement on CBUs). Terminators are not compatible with AIM-120s, and carry AAMs extremely rarely. But if, then either some late-mark AIM-9s or AIM-7Ms.

Yes, they're used too - and in quite some quantity (one of first attack waves included, reporteldy, no less but 25 F-4E-2020s).

...oh yeah, baby: and the old camo too! Gets 5 stars from me, Habu!