Tom Cooper

BTW, to understand what I mean with that 'base' colour that was either original 'bare metal overall', or 'silver-grey', take this photo: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ElNEOElS0Ew/UqZ7pXfWRxI/AAAAAAAAge0/eRl87ELbbTk/s320/INDIAN+AIR+FORCE+IAF+Mig-21+FL+taxying+past+a+phased+out+Mig-25+trainer+aircraft+at+Kalikunda+airbase+in+West+Bengal.+The+Mig-21+FL+will+also+be+phased+out+of+IAF+on+Dec+11,+2013+after+completing+50+years+of+service..jpg - then convert it to black & white format, and compare with the photo of C992 above.

Probably yes. But it still needs testing.

Erm... yes: after asking around a bit, it turned out that Tornado (from No. 7 Sqn) is at Warton with the purpose of testing integration of Paveway IV to the type. Makes me anything but sure that there are already Tonkas flying combat ops over Yemen and armed with PIVs...

Good question, Wez. AFAIK, they should originally have the same flaps like F-13s. Sadly, there are no photos clearly showing that part of IAF's FLs as of 1971. Though, given Russians began installing blown flaps on their MiG-21PFs (turning them into PFS') already before deliveries of FLs to India began (1966-67), I would say they've got blown flaps too.

...I thought I have written something in this regards, just couldn't recall where... Finally found it, from http://www.harpia-publishing.com/galleries/AMV3/index.html'>Arab MiGs, Volume 3, Appendix V (p235):

Yup, the fin-top antenna (and that at the ventral fin) is from fibreglass. That's why colour on these parts is weathering differently.

You're welcome, Dave. Re. GBU-12s: frankly (as always), I'm happy I've recognized them as such. The 2-3 takes of 'photos' showing RSAF Tonkas in ops over Yemen are actually stills from (not particularly sharp) cell-phone videos. They certainly had Mk.82-warheads, though: too thin for anything else. That aside GBU-12 seems to be 'the' PGM deployed by Saudis and all of their allies there. That's so because Saudis are manufacturing them at home. Only Emirati F-16s and (supposedly 'non-operational') Qatari Mirage 2000s have been seen deploying something else so far (JDAMs and al-Hakims).

AFAIK, RSAF is using only F-15S' for ops against Daesh in Syria. Tonkas were used for ops in Yemen, early on, though I haven't seen any in action there since... well at least since September, perhaps August... Don't ask me for reasons, I've got no clue. Sufficient to say, these days one can see even RAF Globemasters landing at KKAB, just not RSAF Tornados. (Note: landings of RAF transports at what is Saudi 'front-base' for ops over Yemen are probably related to the following affair. Namely, RSAF has meanwhile taken over all the air-to-ground stuff [software, weapons, R+D work, plus all the costs] for Typhoons from the RAF, and RSAF Typhoons are regularly flying air strikes over Yemen since at least June [if not already since May].)

Lack the time to read the entire thread, so here my 'try': Few years ago (say: around 2010) it was so that each squadron has got 4 Tonkas painted in grey, while others were left in original camo. Given that most of photos are meanwhile showing grey-painted examples, I would say that majority is meanwhile camouflaged that way. Could've been necessary because they are flying a lot less at low altitudes nowadays. A (near-solid) 'yes'. At least I haven't seen any photo showing them in different configuration recently (again: since at least 2010).Notable is that there are still quite a few of grey-painted examples carrying Sky Shadows and BOZ in original camo pattern. None I would know, but standard config for recent ops over Yemen looks something like this:- Sky Shadow + BOZ on outboard pylons - Hindenburgers + AIM-9Ms on inboard pylons - Damocles targeting pod on left front underfuselage station (kill me, no idea what's the actual designation of that one, but it's de-facto a single pylon running down most of the underfuselage) - 1-4 GBU-12s (one on right front undrfuselage station, one somewhere further back, on the centre station, and either 1 or 2 at the rearmost underfuselage stations) Let's see if this link is going to work... click to enlarge (and sorry for poor grammar in the caption: not my fault): http://www.aviationgraphic.com/airplanes/2607-tornado-ids-rsaf-tc-225.html Hope that helps some...

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think to recall that the nose cone of MiG-21-variants since MiG-21PF is something like laminated wood, covered with some sort of heat-protection.

I drew this artwork with help of a much smaller - and far less clear - 'version' of the photo you've posted above, and a much older artwork. So, haven't had clue if there were indeed two different 'base colours' underneath 'tiger stripes'. When I look at that photo now, I would say there were none. Also, I suspect ('guess') that the base colour was actually bare metal overall. In theory - I stress: in theory - it is possible that IAF's MiG-21FLs have got a coat of that 'silver grey' often cited by various Arab sources, by 1971 (as some sort of additional protection from local weather). But, I am yet to see a single photo that would clearly confirm this. Whichever it was, that base colour was certainly 'badly-worn-out' - de-facto 'smudged' into some sort of 'very dirty light grey with silvering touch'. That's at least the impression one gets from all colour photos of IAF's MiG-21FLs taken immediately after the 1971 War with Pakistan. Most often, such camo was applied in rather 'primitive' fashion: base colour should've been bare metal overall (with slight differences in colour of panels made from various metals). Dark green was then brushed on top of that, without any varnish. (Note, yes, I know, I also have read various English-language books citing use of light green overall, with dark green splotches... but for reasons I'll keep for myself, I'm not convinced. IMHO, these are interpretations of what people think to see on certain photos [especially those taken on days with solid cloud cover over North Vietnamese air bases, which happens quite often].) EDIT: ah yes, and welcome to MiG-Mania!

Oh yes, they do!

Yup, it's the KAB-500S, GLONASS-guided weapons. They've used one of these to hit a (moderate) insurgent base missed in two attacks by Su-24s using FAB-250s...

Actually, Russian national markings, titles 'VVS Rossiyi' and RF-serials were deleted for transfer/over-flight purposes only (BTW, they deployed via Georgia, Armenia, Iran and Iraq, and not 'in radar shadow of transport aircraft, like various people are babbling around). Meanwhile, Red Stars and service title have been re-applied. They are to be seen on newest photos of Su-24Ms 05 and 26 taken this afternoon - while they were not to be seen on same aircraft yesterday.

For a few seconds wasn't sure if your photos are showing real aircraft. Simply fantastic...

As a big fan of obscure air forces - couldn't miss this one. Well done!

Don't want to become something like 'pain in the a...' now, but this photo caught my attention. Namely, the 'Sidewinders' here look like AIM-9Bs. Sorry but: if you're building this F-4E as a 'post-Vietnam-example', they're a definite 'no-no'. (...and back to 'curious observer' mode...)

Thanks, as expected: very interesting details here (and I've already updated my notes correspondingly). BTW, I've tried several times to estblish what the Iraqis say about the loss of Elsdon/Collier, but without success. I do have one question, though: is it 100% sure that Waddington/Stewart were shot down on 20 January? I'm asking because Iraqis say this Tornado was credited to an IrAF MiG-29 pilot (although, they usually associate Peters/Nichol with the crew of the aircraft in question), on 19 January 1991. To make things even more interesting: the same MiG-29 was then credited as 'manoeuvre kill' to Rodriguez in F-15C - although it definitely came away (and the Iraqi in question is still very much alive).

Was a little bit 'overenthusiastic', becase I recalled that corresponding upgrades were introduced starting with summer of 1972... but couldn't recall the date at which they began arriving in the SEA. So, consulted an absolutely superb book to this topic, 'Clashes', by Marshall L Mitchel. It lacks photos, but it's extremely clear in this regards. Summary of most important details: during summer of 1972, the USAF launched the project Rivet Haste, within frame of which the F-4Es were equipped with LES (leading-edge extensions), enemy-IFF-interrogators, TISEOs, and so-called Mod552 cockpits (something like prototype of HOTAS). So far, I was right. But, instead of using such aircraft to replace existing F-4Ds and F-4Es of units already deployed in SEA, the USAF created a new unit (arguably, staffed with crews trained for air combat), and then designated it the 555th TFS. This 'Tripple Nickel' squadron had very little in common with the famous F-4D-equipped unit active over NV for most of that year. Plus, it ended flying air-to-ground sorties over Laos and South Vietnam, because by the time new F-4Es arrived, Linebacker I ended. That was in October 1972. It wasn't much different during Linebacker II: the 555th did score 3 kills during that op, but all by old hands flying F-4Ds. Additional 'Mod552' F-4Es were subsequently deployed in theatre, but by the time they arrived, the war was de-facto over (at least for the USA). Bottom line: the 'target' of this thread - F-4E 68-0493 - had no LES, no TISEO, and no Mod552 cockpit at the time she scored her kill. Talking about that kill: the date mentioned above confused me a little bit, so started searching around various sources of reference. I think the actual date at which Capt R E Coe and 1st Lt O E Webb (from 34th TFS/388th TFW, tail-code 'JJ') were successful with this Phantom II was 5 October 1972. They used a single AIM-7E-2 to knock out a MiG-21. AFAIK, except with Sparrows, during that sortie she was armed with old AIM-9Bs (i.e. not even with more modern AIM-9Js!) and carried a single ALQ-87 pod in the front left Sparrow bay...

Outch, you sound at least as busy as I am (though with my job). ;-) Never mind; just keep us posted when you find time.

Looking forward for some more details here, Tonker. Don't know which one was 'F', only that ZA396/GE (Waddington/Stewart) was shot down during JP.233-attack, while ZD791/B (Peters/Nichol) was shot down during 1000lb attack - and that neither of the two wore any 'nose art'.

Ah yes and: Alarm Belle and Anola Kay were examples modified to carry ALARM anti-radar missiles. So, I doubt they flew any JP.233-related missions.

A very interesting question here. AFAIK, application of 'nose art' depended on where the Tornado in question was based. Detachments at Muharraq and Tabuk were 'in theatre' since longer than that based at Dhahran (formed only in early January 1991), and should have had 'sharkmouth' insignia applied before the start of hostilities. But, while some had it in 'full' colour (red and white, outlinned in black or light grey, for example, but sometimes in blue and purple, outlinned in black or without outline), others had it applied only in form of lighter variant of camouflage colour (related photos remain true rarities). One Tornado GR.Mk.1 that certainly flew JP.233-sorties with sharkmouth 'already applied' was famous 'MIG Eater' (there are photos of her with JP.233 loaded and at least showing the sharkmouth). Since this example was Tabuk-based, I dare guessing most of the other Tonkas there had similar markings by the time. Mission markings appeared 'gradually', of course, while 'nose art' was present on nearly all aircraft by the end of the war, but I'm quite sure it was rather rare as of 17 January 1991. No clue if you might need this Safko, but 'complete data' on the few Tonkas you've mentioned should be something like this: - Nikki: also Snoopy Airways, ZA491/N, Muharraq-based - Alarm Belle: ZD746/AB, Tabuk-based - Foxy Killer: ZA465/FK, Tabuk-based - Anola Kay: ZD748/AK, Tabuk-based

As Luft 46 & Giorgio observed, leading-edge extensions were added on F-4Es starting with mid-1972. By December that year, most of in-theatre F-4Es should've got them. EDIT: and yes, except for occassional painting of the 'first few 10-30 centimetres', insides of intakes were always white. Note: early F-4Es operated by 388th TFW have worn a number of personal insignia, and some had their radomes painted in tan. Zotz has a beautiful - and really well-researched - set of decals:

Any news on progress of this project, Mike?