Tom Cooper

Well, outwardly, differences between early MiG-25Ps and the MiG-25PD/PDS shown on that illustration, are actually minimal. For example, if you want to make Belenko's MiG-25P 'Red 31', simply leave out the IRST housing and the IFF-antenna under the chin, and don't add any R-60s.

One 'correction' here, if you don't mind: Namely, all the Nesher/Daggers were manufactured in France, by Aérospatiale. Indeed, they also have Aérospatiale's manufacturer plates. Therefore, using ESCI's or Heller's Mirage 5F usually results in excellent reconstructions of Argentinean Daggers too.

In many cases where MiG-23MFs were exported outside of Europe, the Soviets outright refused to sell the R-23T with them. So, 'even if', only R-23Rs were available.

It's been long since I posted for the last time, and hope nobody will mind if I'll 'undust' this thread. Regarding colours of 'Arab' MiG-21MFs: early on, there were two variants of colours as applied on aircraft before their delivery, i.e. in the USSR. - Early camo pattern, lets call this 'original sand and spinach', used on aircraft delivered to their customers up to 1973, consisted of yellow-sand (or 'beige'), BS381C/388 (a good mix would be 1x H103, 1xH94, 1xH121) and green BS381C/283 (H78) on top surfaces, and light admirality grey BS381C/697 (mix H65 and H147 to get this one) on bottom surfaces. Antennas and dielectric pannels were painted in green very similar to H116. - The late camo pattern, for example Syrian MiG-21MFs delivered starting in early 1974 (but also Somali, consisted of same yellow-sand and light admirality grey, but the green BS381C/283 was replaced by blue-green colour, which I wasn't able to precisely identify by now. If you wonder: yes, the Soviets used the British Standard 381C for their colours. If one starts discussing camo patterns of locally-overalued MiG-21MFs though, the things are rapidly getting really complex. Not only Egyptians, but also Syrians have used their own colours. For example, the Egyptians would use BS381C/388 and olive drab BS381C/437 in some instances, or grey BS381C/631 and black green BS381C/298 on top surfaces, and medium grey BS381C/627 on bottom surfaces in other cases - and quite a few other, entirely different colours too... And Syrians are an entirely different pair of shoes.

The dark grey colour on the top side appears slightly too dark to me, but - generally - yes, Egyptian F-16C Block 32s are all painted that way.

The two sheets you linked appear to be at least 'partially' based on books - African MiGs Vol.1, and - African MiGs Vol.2 (or on Yefim Gordon's latest MiG-21-book, which for its coverage of African air forces is completely relying on the older, 1st edition of the 'African MiGs', published back in 2004). At the first look, they appear to be largely correct, but there are exceptions: - Ugandan MiG-21MFs haven't had any kind of a black 'anti-glare' pannel in front of their cockpit and their serials were applied in red, not in black (see African MiGs Vol.2 for reference) - The supposed Angolan MiG-21 with serial 'C314' is a fake: no Angolan MiG-21s were ever painted that way (regardless if flown by Cuban-manned units of Angolan AF or not). Actually, this was a Cuban MiG-21bis painted in Angolan colours for the purpose of 'acting' in a semi-documentary about the Angolan War shot by the Cuban TV, 2-3 years back (see African MiGs Vol.1 for reference). You might also want to refer to photos in Chapter 23 of the book African MiGs Vol.2 for precise position of roundels applied on top and bottom wing surfaces of Zimbabwean F-7s. These are quite unusual, yet appear not explained precisely enough in instructions that accompany these decal sheets. Less important for a modeller: - The Angolan MiG-21MF C48 was not written off in 1976. I interviewed the pilot that flew the plane when it suffered a collapse of the undercarriage due to the failure of the hydraulics system. He said the plane was subsequently repaired and he flew a number of combat sorties with it again. - The Sudanese MiG-21M 345 is shown as in markings from the early 1980s, not from 1971, and the markings as on that sheet are those it received during its overhaul in former Yugoslavia, 1979-1981. Interestingly, this plane was flown also by USAF pilots of the 'Red Eagles' Squadron during the Exercise Bright Star '81. The look of Sudanese MiG-21s as of 1971 actually remains unknown: they were delivered during the second half of that year but no photos are available. BTW, that plane is still existant and presently on display at the SAFAT Aviation Industries complex in Wadi Sayyidna, north of Khartoum (together with the example wearing the serial 344 and some other 'African MiGs'). - The choice of the Zimbabwean F-7IIN with serial '708' is really not the best. That plane was last seen in the mid-1990s and probably lost in a subsequent accident. It never got the new camo pattern in white and mid-grey, applied on AFZ's F-7s since the early 2000s. Much more interesting would be examples like 702 (the sole remaining F-7IN), 706, or 711 (particularly the latter, since it has got 'personalized insignia' for the then CO No.5 Sqn AFZ, Sqn Ldr Michael Enslin). Note also that the Zimbabwean F-7s are compatible with a wide range of weapons of not only the Chinese (like PL-7) but also Soviet/Russian (R-60MK), British (BL.755) and French (Matra F4 rocket pods) origin.

Yup, they shold be from the AMC. And yes, Yofe & Nyveen book are a recommended read in that case. If you don't mind an observation here: despite sternous efforts of their present regime to change this, and 'despite' the presence of a significant Arab minority in the Khuzestan Province (SE Iran), majority of 'Iranians' are Persians - people with their own language (quite similar to Indo-European languages spoken in the West), their own alphabet (much of which was taken over by the Arabs), a very old culture and history (older than that of the Arabs), and as such no Arabs. Actually, most of the Arabs I happen to know consider Persians for 'enemies'. Except for their (major) ethnic-related differences, one of major reasons for this situation is that the Iranians are predominantly the Shi'a Moslems, while most of the Arabs are Suni-Moslems (exceptions are nearly 60% of the Iraqis, nearly half the Lebanese population, and majority of Bahrainis, who are Shi'a too). Additionally, there are also various Arab Christian sects, like Copts in Egypt (nearly 7 Million of people), Orthodox Syrian Christians in Syria and Lebanon (actually, I haven't seen as many newly-built churches anywhere else but in Syria), Armenian Christians, etc., etc., etc. - most of them 'dislike' Persians as well. Nevertheless, the topic you mentioned might be interesting for many of modellers that like to get inspired by trully 'obscure' topics. Namely, there was a large number of 'internal' Arab conflicts that saw the use of air power. Here only a few that come to my mind right now: - the Hejaz-Nejd War in what subsequently became Saudi Arabia, back in the first half of the 1920s (saw involvement of British, German, Italian and French aircraft and mercenaries) - the near US-British conflict over the borders of Oman and Saudi Arabia, in the 1950s (this conflict saw the USA deliver B-26 Invaders to Saudi Arabia, and actually establish the Saudi AF) - the Algerian-Moroccan war of 1963 (when both air forces used transport planes to shift their troops, and Algerians almost deployed their ex-Moroccan MiG-17s to fight the Moroccans) - 'Civil' War in Yemen, in the 1960s (Egyptian MiG-15s, MiG-17s, MiG-19s and Il-28s, Saudi - through British-flown - Hunters, and this in addition to RAF Hunters based in Aden etc.) - Syrian invasion of Jordan in 1970 (a very short affair, ended with clandestine help of the Israeli air force) - various wars in Yemen ever since (including at least two wars between the then Northern and Southern Yemen, but also a major coup in 1986, etc.) - Egyptian-Libyan War of 1977 (with plenty of use of such hardware like MiG-21s, Su-20s, Mirage 5s, Galebs and Jastrebs) - the war in West Sahara, between the Moroccans and Saharouis, that raged for most of the 1980s, and saw also the Algerian involvement (see: Moroccan Mirage F.1s and F-5Es vs Saharoui-operated SA-6s and SA-8s...) - 1990-1991 Persian Gulf War (which first saw clashes of the Iraqi and Kuwaiti air forces during its initial stage and then the deployment of the 'Free Kuwait' AF, plus Saudis and Qataris in addition to air forces of Western allies) - the war against Islamic terrorists raging in Algeria from 1986 through most of the 1990s, and actually until today (recently even the newly-delivered Algerian Su-30s flew some combat sorties there) - finally, the civil war in Libya that destroyed large parts of that country, earlier this year (which saw the deployment of Libyan Arab Air Force MiG-21s, MiG-23s and Su-22s, plus helicopters, vs. Free Libya Air Force's MiG-21s and MiG-23s, plus Mi-24s, just for example). Additionally, there were plenty of coups that saw the deployment of air power. For example, the famous Hawker Hunter fighter saw its first combat during a coup in Iraq in 1958, and fought its first air combat during another coup in Iraq, in 1963 (when an Iraqi Hunter was shot down by two Iraqi MiG-17Fs). Other similar instances saw the deployment of Fouga CM.170 Magisters and MiG-17s during the coup in Algeria, in 1967; F-104 Starfighters during the coup in Jordan in 1970 (one of these nearly shot down the Alouette III helicopter carrying King Hussein, but was subsequently shot down by other Starfighters); the coup in Morcocco in 1971 (when three F-5As nearly shot down a Boeing 727 flown by a Yugoslav pilot and carrying the Moroccan King) and many, many other cases...

Hi Ian, we're readying several additional books about Iran-Iraq War, including one about the ground warfare (though with associated air warfare as well), one about the so-called 'Tanker War', and a new book on F-4 Phantoms in Iranian service. After all these years of research, plenty of new info came together and there is obviously something likea 'need to update' earlier publications. It might be interesting to add here that back in 2007-2008, Brig Gen Sadik joined Farzad and me to publish something like an 'update' of our original book 'Iran-Iraq War in the Air' as a special volume of the French magazine Avions. These were - Hors Series No.22, and - and No.23: The same magazine meanwhile published also a special volume on the June 1967 War, as their Hors Series No.30. BTW, the Syrian MiG-17F shown on the photo above was built by an Israeli modeller in 1:72. He's presently working on a camouflaged Egyptian MiG-17F from 1973. Here also the title-page of the IPMS-Austria magazine, showing two MiG-17Fs (one Iraqi and one Egyptian) built by a very good friend of mine in 1:32: *********** Hi Steve, that's indeed a 'though' question. I don't have it with me right now (I borrowed it to somebody working on on similar topic like you), but Alex Yofe's and Lawrence Nyveen's book is providing excellent reference for this camo pattern. As far as I recall, this was the same as applied on IDF/AF's Mustangs in the early 1950s (i.e. brown RAL8000 and blue RAL5008 on upper surfaces and light grey RAL 7044 on undersides). The illustration bellow is the best I found on the internet right now. If you can wait for a few days longer (I'm about to travell to the IPMS(UK) Nationals in Telford), I'll try to get some better references. Cheers, Tom

Thanks Giorgio. One of the reasons I began researching, writing and publishing was that I used to modell, but always lacked references for planes I wanted to build. Thus, I'm still trying to help various modellers, whenever my time permits it. If there are any questions, simply let me know. Here one example for models built using reference published in books like Iraqi Fighters and Arab MiGs Vol.1 (some of these have already won prices at different shows): an ex-Egyptian MiG-17F, as in Syrian service in June 1967. (I'll post more - should I find a way to upload photos here...)

I'm new here so hope, nobody is going to mind me pulling this thread out of the dustbin and adding few details... Generally, there are plenty of books - and even more magazine articles - about the Israeli Air Force (formerly IDF/AF, now IASF) that provide good reference for modellers. The best are provided by IsraDecal, which is also manufacturing decals, resin kits, armament and ordnance in all scales (from 1:72 to 1:32) to this topic. In total, there is very little any modeller interested in the IDF/AF might not find in the catalogue of that company. If there is something like a 'problem zone' in regards of the Arab-Israeli air wars, then that's the topic of Arab air forces. For example, until 2009, there were only a few (three, at best) books, and something like half a dozen of articles providing authoritative references. Similarly, most of decal sheets were a way off, and accessory remains practically unheard of. This is mirrored in some of the posts in this thread (no pun intended) where it becomes obvious that there are still many details about Arab air forces that remain unknown. If some self-advertising is not wrong in place...back in 2009, Harpia Publishing launched the title "Iraqi Fighters, Camouflage & Markings: 1953-2003", by Brig Gen Ahmad Sadik (IrAF ret.) and myself. That's is quite a richly illustrated book covering 13 fighter jet types in service with the Royal Iraqi and Iraqi Air Force in the given period, including Vampire, Venom, Hunter, MiG-17, MiG-19, MiG-21, MiG-23, MiG-25, MiG-29, Mirage F.1EQ, Su-7, Su-20/22, Su-24 and Su-25. Many of Iraqi aircraft used to wear unit insignia and kill markings, and these are described in this book as well. Linden Hill in the USA is offering very well-stuffed decal sheets in major scales that can help you build many of the planes described in that book. Some of markings from the Linden Hill's decal sheet have been released by various other manufacturers. However, just today I saw a wonderfully built Iraqi MiG-23MF in 1:32 scale where many things in regards of markings went wrong. IMHO, this made it obvious that this book remains unknown within the circles of interested modellers - which is pitty, to put it mildly. Fans of 1956 'Suez Crisis' (or the 'Suez War' as it is known between the Arabs) might find the next related title released by the same publisher, namely "Arab MiGs, Volume 1: Mikoyan i Gurevich MiG-15 and MiG-17 in Service with Air Forces of Algeria, Egypt, Iraq, Morocco and Syria" - interesting. This book is covering the period 1955-1967, and offers a unique insight into MiG-15- and MiG-17-ops with these air forces. It's illustrated by plenty of previously unknown photos and corresponding artworks. Similarly, one of Harpia's newest releases, "Arab MiGs, Volume 2: Supersonic Fighters", by Dr. David Nicolle and me, is covering the service history of not only MiG-19 and MiG-21 in Algeria, Egypt, Iraq and Syria during the period 1960-1967, but also the service history of the Hunter in Iraqi, Lebanese and Jordanian air forces during the same time-frame. On the top of this, and because their stories were influential for the service history of 'Arab MiGs', it provides also plenty of unique reference about Iraqi and Egyptian Ilyushin Il-28 and Tupolev Tu-16 bombers, as well as Egyptian Su-7s. Finally, it's so far the only book providing an authoritative insight into the stillborn Egyptian Mach-2-capable fighter jet project (thanks to cooperation of the former Indian AF test pilot who flew it), named Helwan HA-300: this was actually the final fighter ever designed by the famous German aircraft designer Prof Willy Messerschmitt.... I guess the 'only' thing missing now would be some good decals based on all the reference that can be found in these books. Hannanets is offering a decal sheet - mentioned in this thread before - that is partially based on reference provided in Arab MiGs Vol.1. Sadly, that sheet is also containing some mistakes... Additionally, provided there is interest, somebody should finally manufacture launch-rails for Sakr unguided rockets as installed not only on Egyptian (but also Algerian and Syrian) MiG-17Fs, but also on quite a few Vampires, Yaks, and MiG-15s of the Egyptian AF - and that already as of 1956. From our standpoint, the Arab MiGs saga is to be continued: Volume 3 is scheduled for next year in September... So, hope somebody is still with me after reading him-/herself through this 'novel' of a post. If yes, here few general tips for modellers interested in such topics like Arab MiGs: - Do not trust reference materials describing any Egyptian, Syrian or Iraqi MiG-21s as painted in 'sand and brown'. There were only few aircraft painted that way (mostly Egyptian MiG-17s used as decoys), and these are actually unknown in the public as of yet. - Do not trust reference materials describing any Syrian MiG-21s, MiG-23s, etc. as having roundels applied anywhere on their fuselage. Although doing this on MiG-17s, the Syrians subsequently discontinued this practice. - Similarly, avoid 'roundels for Syrian MiG-21 etc." that are in green-white-and-black: such roundels were never applied on any Syrian aircraft after February 1958 - Do not use R-3S (AA-2-2 Atoll) missiles on any of Arab MiGs - And always take great care to get yourself some photo-references before placing national insignia on any of Arab MiGs (and Sukhois): there were many 'unusual' things to see there (for example, Iraqi triangles pointing 'invards' on IrAF MiG-29s...). Hope, this was of some help...