Tom Cooper

I know. That's why I'm stating where RF-serials remain unconfirmed - which is contrary to some other people, who guess specific RF-serials based on their borts back in Russia.

Six were originally expected, but only four clearly identified so far, and it seems you've got all four. 21/RF-serial unknown, 22/RF-95818 (could be RF-95005, though), 25/RF-95811, and 27/RF-serial unknown. Yesterday, Moscow announced it's going to send eight additional Su-34s (plus 4 Su-27Ms) to Syria. That plus today's strike with cruise missiles are an indication of two issues: aircraft already in Syria are too few, but meanwhile also in need of overhauls.

Gorgeous. Don't know which one I like more.... and then: so many, so many...

Beautiful work here (in construction and painting). One question regarding painting: last year I drew artworks for a book on IDF/AF's ops during the Suez War, and thus drew the Meteor NF.Mk. 13 serial number '52' too, in same camo pattern as applied here - because that was the aircraft that fired the first shots of that war. Now, contemporary reference photos were obviously taken from a significant distance, and anything but 'clear'. Yet, one thing that was quite obvious was that the border of the dark grey camo that's covering all the bottom surfaces was going quite high up the front fuselage. That is: even higher than on the artwork here: ...and rather in this direction (ignore the camo on the rear fuselage though, it's definitely wrong - and no red chevron was in place, yet): Furthermore, photos in question made that border appear quite 'soft', and slightly 'inclined': i.e. it was starting at a lower point at the front, and going slightly upwards (as shown above). That's what's making me curious, Rich: have you got any contemporary reference photos showing application as on your modell (i.e. quite low down the fuselage)? (Note: hope you'll not mind my question, Rich; I don't want to spoil your build or hair-split; it's just so that I don't have that much clue about Meteors as about specific other types in service in the Middle East and I'm curious to learn.)

...after 40 years without fresh paint, my face would look as bad too

Even Hunter is bigger than MiG-21... but then: everything's bigger than MiG-21... only F-5 is of approx the same size. Looking forward for your 'PA' F-5B.

Yup, such configuration sounds very good for TFB.4. Especially for the times of Battle for Khuzestan, in October 1980, when TFB.4 was launching 60-100 sorties a day - and stopped Iraqi invasion of south-western Iran. Re. pictures of IRQ7A: I've got nothing better but what can be found here: https://ixquick-proxy.com/do/show_picture.pl?l=deutsch&rais=1&oiu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myaviation.ir%2Fimages%2F42tlatofk.145.jpg&sp=85d6adfabf2da6c05567a1e19b338b86 To me it looks like the head-rest was made similar to US-origin (perhaps for reasons of space?), these rails added at the top of it. Everything below the head-rest looks quite like 'vanilla' Mk.7 ejection seat. (BTW, if building an F-5F from the times of the Iran-Iraq War, please DON'T add the GPS-antenna behind he rear cockpit.)

...ah yes, regarding armament options.... To a certain degree, this depends on what markings do you want to apply. An aid in finding this out is that black number in black circle usually applied between the fin flash and FY-serial. This number can only be 2 - denoting TFB.2/Tabriz - or 4 - denoting TFB.4/Vahdati (Dezful). This is so because no other bases ('wings' if you like) have operated F-5E/Fs (at least not during the Iran-Iraq War). TFB.2 flew air-to-ground and air-to-air sorties, TFB.4/Vahdati (Dezful) flew almost exclusively air-to-ground sorties. Then you might want to decide if you want to show one of aircraft involved in so-called 'special missions' (strikes deep into Iraq), or 'usual CAS' on the frontlines. TFB.2 flew plenty of special missions, but very little CAS. Once again, TFB.4 flew almost exclusively CAS. For special missions, armament almost exclusively consisted of four Mk.82 GP-bombs with Mk.15 Snakeye retarding fins ('Mk.82SE'). Plus 'obligatory' pair of AIM-9Js on wingtips (for self-defence purposes). Otherwise, for CAS purposes almost everything available was loaded. Better said, usually it was 'four of almost anything available' (one on each of underwing pylons), including: - BLU-1/B and BLU-27 napalm tanks (usually without fins) - LAU-3/A or LAU-7 launchers for unguided rockets (usually with plastic aerodynamic caps, but often without any) - Mk.82s or Mk.82SEs - M117s Heavier weapons were carried too, though then only in pairs (i.e. one on each of outboard underwing plyons), including: - Mk.83s - Hunting-Engineering BL.755 CBUs (UK-made) - CBU-57/B and CBU-75/B (US-made). Plus centreline drop tank, of course: this was something like 'obligatory', no matter what sort of mission. Curiously, and contrary to Ethiopian practices, it seems Iranians have never deployed any Mk.84s from their F-5E/Fs (whenever Ethiopians did so, they would load them under the centreline, instead of the drop tank).

...ah yes: and many of IRIAF Simourqhs (which is a locally-manufactured variant created through conversion of single-seat F-5As into two-seat T-38A-likes) have the Martin Baker Mk.10 seat (with exception of two that have those Soviet/Russian made 36s). ...but don't ask me where have they got them..

You're welcome, Craig (actually: I'm simply glad to help create authentic modells). Talking about ejection seats: it seems this is either unknown or at least 'little known' in the public, but ALL of Iranian F-5E/Fs have got Martin Baker IRQ7A seats right from the start, i.e. right since their roll-out, in 1976 etc. That means: it was not only the front seat of their F-5Fs that was made by Martin Baker. But, it was only that seat that had such a big rails. Now, don't ask me why 'IRQ': that was the official designation and it's mentioned as such in all of IIAF/IRIAF documentation. Whatever... it seems that Iranians didn't have very good exepriences with original, US-designed ejection seats installed in their earlier F-5A/Bs.

The 'wildest' options for an Iranian F-5F would be either one from IIAF times.... say: ALQ-171 pod 'around' the centreline hardpoint (this was really attached on the bottom fuselage around the hardpoint), two GBU-10s on outboards, and Zot Box in the rear cockpit... or the latest 'Kowsar-88', which is F-5F fuselage with two fins and few 'extra' antennas on the spin (and then perhaps in that Iranian variant of 'Blue Angels' scheme, originally applied on '3-7410'...sadly, meanwhile they repainted in more standard fashion, as visible here: http://www.janes.com/article/49727/analysis-iranian-fighter-programmes-bona-fide-or-bluff) (An F-5B/Simourgh-related alternative would be either 3-7023 or 3-7025 with Zvezda 36M ejection seats, as seen here: http://www.airliners.net/photo/Iran---Air/Northrop-%28HESA%29-F-5B/1937749/L) But, of course, I'm happy to see any other exotic example and therefore looking forward for results of your work, Craig. BTW, does this F-5F kit come with 'proper' front ejection seats (i.e. with Martin-Baker Mk... can't recall the modell, with those 'punch-through rails' over the head-rest)...?

Hehe... one thing I'm trying to recall but I'm too lazy to search for right now: weren't there 'only' three prototypes (of which two crashed, AFAIK)? ...and how similar we two are thinking: back in the late 1980s I did a 1:72 Tigershark as 'MiG-28'.

1.) Yup. LERXes but no shark-noses. 2.) Yup. Though... well, you can still weather her, that shouldn't really be a problem.

Thanks for a reminder... must admit, I'm surprised this one is not having more appeal...

Oh, cool... Many thanks, JP! To complete the list (and thus help VP, plus for everbody's records): F-5Es, 1st batch (deliveries between 30 November 1984 and 5 February 1985): 82-0634/Y-92501/IE 82-0635/Y-92503/IF 82-0636/Y-92515/IL 82-0637/Y-92505/iG 82-0638/Y-92507/IH 82-0639/Y-92509/II F-5Fs (deliveries on 30 November and 1 December 1984): 82-0640/Y-92502/IA 82-0641/Y-92504/IB 82-0642/Y-92506/IC 82-0643/Y-92508/ID F-5Es, 2nd batch (delivered on 5 February 1985): 82-0644/Y-92511/IJ 82-0645/Y-92513/IK F-5Es, 3rd batch (delivered in 1989) 74-1532/Y-92517/IM 74-1535/Y-92519/IN 74-1559/Y-92521/IO 74-1566/Y-92523/IP All 'mysteries' solved, I would say, aren't they...?

Now to the issue of Tunisian numbers... This issue is slightly more complicated than this - also because (and that's next to never reported) Tunisian F-5E/Fs are not only having genuine registrations (Y-92..... etc), but wearing two-letter codes on their forward fuselage, too. The latter are in range IA to IP. The reason why are the latter so seldom reported is that most of photos were taken prior to delivery, or during overflights for overhauls in the USA - when these codes were either not yet applied, or removed. Anyay, original Tunisian order was for six F-5Es and four F-5Fs, followed by two additional F-5Es. Think that if there is any kind of uncertainity, then because F-5Fs arrived as first, although manufactured after F-5Fs. Plus, that early 'follow-up' order for two additional F-5Es is little known. Anyway, FY-numbers were as follows: F-5Es, 1st batch (deliveries between 30 November 1984 and 5 February 1985): 82-0634/Y-92501/IE 82-0635/Y-92503/IF 82-0636/Y-92515/IL 82-0637/Y-92505 82-0638/Y-92507/IH 82-0639/Y-92509/II F-5Fs (deliveries on 30 November and 1 December 1984): 82-0640/Y-92502/IA 82-0641/Y-92504/IB 82-0642/Y-92506/IC 82-0643/Y-92508/ID F-5Es, 2nd batch (delivered on 5 February 1985): 82-0644/Y-92511 82-0645/Y-92513/I? So, that was the original complement of 12 aircraft (8 F-5Es and 4 F-5Fs) for the 15e Escadrille de Chasse. In 1989, four ex-USAF F-5Es were delivered. I can't find their complete serials and other details, so can only say that the only available photo is documenting serial number Y-92521/IO. Contrary to the original fleet, these had no big UHF-antennas nor VHF-fillets on the base of the fin, and were painted in two shades of grey (prior to delivery).

Oh, that's the enthusiasm I like! Finally found two photos of the scheme I was talking about, - here as 'originals': - and here in form of a modell (so, it seems somebody is making such decals too): Blue Diamonds seem to have changed their overall scheme quite often. The one you picked is 'quite late' one. Here a slightly earlier variant of the same topic: ...and here another 'late' one (after all aircraft were painted in light grey overall, sometimes in 1980s): Finally, here one of earliest form of quite attractive 'special markings' applied on one of PhAF F-5As (quite shortly after delivery) - though I don't know what was the reason: (Note for admins: this artwork is mine, and yes, I do own copyrights for most of the other photos here; where not, they're from Wikimedia commons. Reason for all of this is my involvement in preparation of the book Counterinsurgency in Paradise.)

Most colourful A-37Bs ever. Great topic-choice here, and lovely realisation!

Gorgeous artworks. Thanks for bringing up that topic.... ...talking about Moroccans: they've got F-5A/Bs in late 1960s. In 1972, three pilots flying F-5As have intercepted the B727 carrying Moroccan king and nearly shot it down... Because of that coup attempt, Morroccan F-5-squadron was late to deploy to Egypt during the October 1973 Arab-Israeli War, as originally planned. Instead, they arrived few weeks later. Nevertheless, they were scrambled repeatedly during various incidents over the Red Sea through autumn of that year, and once almost had an air combat with Israelis... Morocco then bought F-5E/Fs in late 1970s, and got them in the early 1980s. Almost immediately upon arrival the type was rushed into action against against Soviet- and Algerian-supported APLS-insurgents fighting for independence of West Sahara. At least two Moroccan 'Tiger IIs' were shot down by SAMs, in mid-1980s.

As everybody knows, I'm into 'was in combat' and 'obscure' stuff. So, for the start, here two 'possibly-motivating' links: - Greek F-5A that claimed a Turkish F-102A as shot down in 1974 (true 'dream-comes-truth' for any fanatic weatherer out there) - Ethiopian F-5Es scored a clear-cut 12:0 victory over Somali MiG-17s and MiG-21MFs during Ogaden War (a much better- but printed - source, with complete story, even photos of involved pilots, not to talk about photos of ex-Iranian F-5As in Ethiopian colours [all were re-sold back to Iran, a few years later] and artwork of an EtAF F-5E with six blue stars as kill markings, can be found in recently published book Wings Over Ogaden)

Very nice. BTW, should you desire 'at least a lil bit of colour' on any of your F-20s: one was actually marked with full Egyptian national insignia (Egyptians opted for F-16s though, like so many others).

Oh, cool...

You've got a 'like' for your decision. Looking forward for your PhAF F-5A! BTW, which of Blue Diamond's schemes have you decided to do? Namely, that team had several times re-painted their Freedom Fighters. AFAIK, their 'most gorgeous' (which is a matter of taste, of course), had the entire fin painted in dark blue, and then a big blue cobra on a white disc. Also quite 'spectacular' was the camo pattern applied on No. 6 Squadron's F-5A starting in... I think it was around 1973 or so: noses and fin-tips were in white, each aircraft had a nick-name applied in red on the forward fuselage (and repeated on fin-tip), and has got a big black cobra and big white 6 on the fin too. Now keep in mind: these colours were applied on original, silver-grey finish, with all the maintenance stencils etc. being just covered over with cardboard during application of camo colours (which consisted of tan, dark green and dark brown on top surfaces). So, result of all of this were some of most colourful F-5As ever..

Yup, and they were added at a latter date (quite a few years AFTER delivery). And regarding total numbers of TuAF F-5s: I'll check around. Might take a day, but I'm quite sure to have the answer... somewhere in 2-3 places of my library... EDIT: Tunisian F-5s (together with their L-39/59 or whatever) have seen quite a lots of action recently. Although this is entirely unreported outside the country, they've flown hundreds of CAPs and even ground strikes against extremist gangs active in southern Tunisia (primarily along the border to Libya).

Yup, that was the reason for differences re. noses and LERXes.