JackG

Took another look SAR UK and Holland film It seems the Rams and Shermans driving by are all in the same location. Since it is known Rams were not taken to mainland Europe, this means the location is still in the UK. As such there is no reason to think the tactical marking is anything other than red as witnessed in the colour film.

Have tried reversing the tones on the period photo but it did not really help. WD serials were suppose to be 3.5 inches tall while nick names were to be 3 inches, so that near matches except for what looks like a lower case j but that could be just some other pixilation that joined the letter. Otherwise it generally looks too neat to be loading a code chalked in that area.

So which jeopardy round is this, I'll take “The plot thickens” for 300 . . . Below have created three colour swatches to compare. If these are all olive drab then can easily see why a vehicle painted overall in this shade could be interpreted as a brown colour. Though sample 2 and 3 could be faded SCC2.

Hi @Sergeant welcome to the conversation. @thebig-bear the Sherman at St Lambert sur Dives also has a rear view and have included that as it appears to have a section of dark camou on the left fender

Going by the two colour photos of SAR parked on the side of the road in Caen, there is definitely disruptive painting but I don't see a hint of brown in those two. The b/w photo from IMW also displays a two tone, and here it is cropped and contrast adjusted. As for full repaints of Shermans in SCC2, that does seem to be the case for some like Cougar while other Shermans from the film could be categorized as patchy.

Interesting that Mike is open to the idea of overall repaint of some Shermans in the NWE theatre. This makes sense with regards to the film as it explains how there can be more than one colour of Sherman in the same frame. Thanks for helping to bring him into this conversation. I have also tried to determine what type of Sherman Cougar was by way of its serial. No other serial from the 1507xx range exists in the pdf of known tank names and numbers. It seems it would sit either at the beginning of M4A2 list or at the end of the M4A4 one. M4A4, Sherman Mk V 150112 150120 150255 150279 150313 150433 150470 150477 150503 150557 150569 150613 150666 COUGAR 150718 M4A2, Sherman Mk II 150814 150842 150843 150993 Sort of a part two of the diary search. Going back to SAR and looking at the months leading to the film to find any mention of painting. It is not until the 2 to 3 days prior to the inspection that on May 9th 1944 that B and HQ Sqn are doing maint paying particular attention to painting https://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oocihm.lac_reel_t12767/1110

Have you tried comparing the instructions and the respective parts list to see what is common to each kit? Here is a screen shot from Scalemates for the Churchill IV kit no 35154

After skimming through a number of diaries, have given up on finding a possible paper trail for COUGAR as there is no listing of actual WD serials. Though have found through the Tank Delivery Regiment diaries, the first 3 Shermans sent to SAR (29th Cdn Armd Recce Regt) occurred on the 16th of December 1943, with another 6 delivered on the 19th. https://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oocihm.lac_reel_t12735/381 https://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oocihm.lac_reel_t12735/382 The SAR diary does not mention these two deliveries, but the entry on the 20 of Dec. does state that each squadron now had three Shermans apiece. https://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oocihm.lac_reel_t12767/739 January and February of 1944 had no Shermans delivered to SAR but March brought them another 11. https://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oocihm.lac_reel_t12735/580 April was busier with 20 Shermans being delivered https://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oocihm.lac_reel_t12735/708 https://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oocihm.lac_reel_t12735/709 The month of May saw another 15 Shermans delivered before the demonstration parade, after which another nine were received to close out the month. https://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oocihm.lac_reel_t12735/797 https://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oocihm.lac_reel_t12735/798 https://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oocihm.lac_reel_t12735/799

For a 1/48 Stuart there is the French brand GASOLINE which are resin products. There is also from China SSMODEL which do 3D printed subjects. If I recall correctly they are created from files based on computer games. They seem to sell only through evilbay. Looks like a lot of cleanup . . . There is one more in the resin category Ken Swenson aka Kengi based out of California. All ll I can find is a price list and email address https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/track48/kengi-kits-from-ken-swenson-t10589-s30.html

Zoomed in on the Normandy photo with netting over the Sherman. Note the difference in colour of the fender and the hull glacis above it. Were sand shields normally part of the kit of delivered Shermans or were some fabricated at unit workshops and painted, in this case SSC15 and disruptive black? I agree determining paint shades from a period film is not accurate. There is also no denying that the vehicles formed up for parade from the movie clip are not all the same colour either . . . or is this being blamed on poor film quality as well? Am assuming when SAR shipped to England their Rams came with them and that could explain why some do look green in the video, likely Khaki Green no3. For the Shermans, agreed again there would be no reason to repaint them. In fact when new base colours were introduced, there was was always the added note to use up the previous stock first. This infers that a uniform look from vehicle to vehicle was not crucial. Theatre location is a different matter and repaints were necessary. That was why I considered that some SCC4 Shermans had been handed to SAR. To be clear this would be a few vehicles that were repainted but never operated in Italy and had remained in the UK. Of course just speculation until I can find time to look through the diaries.

Searching over at Scalemates there are a couple sets of civilian passengers by Arma Models https://www.scalemates.com/search.php?fkSECTION[]=All&q=civilians*&fkSCALENORMALISED[]="1:00144"

Another test, an olive drab background created from Kingmans Sherman photo with SAR markings layed over top to consider what the eye perceives . . .

Here you go, colour samples are taken from the areas circled in light blue. Top row swatches are from the crew while directly underneath are from the vehicles.

Here is the added swatch of that darker patch below the serial, which appears to have a purple tint. The other greyer square above it has been altered percentage wise all at 33 percent increments, with the magenta decreased, while blue and yellow were increased by the same amount.

Sure I can post the attempt at reverse engineering the film image. Could not do much in the way of saturating the colours as just a 5 per cent increase would start showing harsh pixelation Bit more manipulation decreasing red and increasing the yellow which may be too extreme with the resulting orange tactical marking A good example here using film emulation software Taking the sample image from Kingsman of the olive drab Sherman, and the resulting colour shift to red via Kodak Ektachrome 100 VS

The only way to match the colour or colours in the period film would be to replicate the type of film used, incorporate the lighting conditions and then further alter that to represent aged film. I could take a scan or digital photo of Mike's painted swatches but it would be very sterile representation and therefore would not match the period film.

It certainly does seem to be the same Sherman crew relaxing in front of their vehicle, right down to the house behind them having the chimney with 3 spouts protruding from the top. SAR diary does not mention Vaucelles on August 7 but were already further forward in Caen ruins on the 5th. It uncannily describes how they had to park right next to the houses to leave the roadway clear. In addition there is mention that they were to have six churchill AVRE under their command for the upcoming push in support of 10th Infantry Bde. https://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oocihm.lac_reel_t12767/1355 I have tried playing with the colours but did not arrive at anything successful without gaining a bizarre background. The Cougar with liquid spillage has some other peculiarity in that the storage box does appear darker in this instance, but could jut be a later addition with fresh paint. The location of the spill is odd too because am not aware of there being a filler point there. The darker colour does look very close to the SCC4 swatch in the Mike Starmer pamphlet. If the variety of schemes is from vehicles being acquired from a number of sources then perhaps COUGAR is an example of a 5th CAD repainted partially with SCC2 because SCC15 was not yet available at that time or is it really olive drab of the brown variety?

Yes I know exactly the two colour photos mentioned above. M4A2(75) Sherman 10th Canadian Armoured Regiment Vaucelles, France June, 1944 Kodachrome LAC A rare colorchrome of a Sherman V of the Canadian 29th Reconnaissance regiment (The South Alberta Regiment). The Tank was commanded by Major David Currie (VC), and the tank was named ‘Clanky’. This photo was taken in Normandy around Arromanches in July of 1944. Photo via TheShermanTank.com The bottom photo can see the lower portion of the AoS 45 below the track thus clearly identifying SAR. For the first photo to be of SAR as well it would mean the date is incorrect as well since this unit only arrived in France the following month of July. In either case both appear to be greenish base with black disruption painted over top. Tying in with the diary note about painted camouflage varying from squadron to squadron, it could just be the shapes of the black disruptive being applied.

For screenshots it depends on the browser type being used, but most have the capability to do so. For firefox I just right click the mouse and the option pops up as a menu. Just google your browser type and there should be an explanation on how to initiate it. Yes I see now the red tactical markings on some Shermans with 45 AoS. I had not paid attention to that as it seemed an odd place to have them right on the front of the turret cheek, but is very obvious now. It is probably just film quality, but when viewing the red on the HQ tank named COUGAR and isolating the colour to create a swatch, it looks more like a brick shade or terra cotta that is desaturated by a good fifty per cent. So it does seem SAR was using a shade of red for tac markings during training. At some point before embarking for Normandy, switched to white but this in turn necessitated another change as pointed out in the diary as per June 15 entry below . . . https://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oocihm.lac_reel_t12767/1206

It may have just been a training exercise for tanks in supporting role of infantry. Structure wise. though both SAR and 10th Inf Bde were part of 4th CAD. they would not change seniority ranking in relation to one another as they are two completely different types of units. I would take the cue from all four films that the entirety are not all strictly SAR images but also includes the other armoured regiments of the division. So the jeep with the red square is most likely from 21st Armoured Regiment (The Governor General's Foot Guards).

The other bonus about the build date is that it does not straddle the summer months. Yes, roger that about the extra goodies, got some already plus a few more on order and still to choose a set of aftermarket tracks. Will be printing my own decals, and still in the middle of designing some PE to replace or add corrected details.

Yes the Z prefix with digits 1, 2, 3, and 4 on the turret would make it a regimental HQ vehicle https://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oocihm.lac_reel_t10545/222 The earlier videos from The South Alberta Regiment - CASF has some interest too. In part 2 when SAR was the Junior regiment of 3rd CAB, note how light a blue is used for the tactical marking. The amount of Rams received in not mentioned, but was filmed around April 1942 while still training in Canada, or more specifically Debert, Nova Scotia. Back to part 4 of the video series, am still not sure what units are present in the colour portion with all those tanks. The upper arm flashes when visible on the crews should be green to reflect the 4th CAD. The AoS 45 for certain must be SAR and for tactical colour the markings should be white. Another tidbit, SAR diary notes from June 15 1944 have the large white tactical signs made smaller to 16 inches and over painted in green.

Forgot to include the link where a pdf can be downloaded of vehicle names, so here it is http://ww2talk.com/index.php?resources/wwii-tank-and-vehicle-names-v8.179/

May have found the identity of the Sherman nicknamed COUGAR with WD number T150718. It is not from the 1st Canadian Army Tank, and should have realized it earlier as they utilized the three digit AoS series. COUGAR is listed as being used on a couple other Shermans belonging to LdSH, (Lord Strathcona's Horse), the senior armoured regiment of 5th CAD, which was sent to Italy. This ties in with the red tactical markings and a separate spotting of the AoS 51. What doesn't fit is the noted time frame of the video being the early months of 1944. 5th CAD deployed to Italy in late October of 1943, but interestingly they left their vehicles behind and were to inherit those of the British 7th Armoured Division. I had taken a quick look at LdSH war diary for August 1943 and they still had a mixture of Rams and Shermans in the UK. So this may have been the source of some of SARS vehicles, possibly some painted for Mediterranean use but never sent there.

I think it is a possibility the brown seen in the film is of the Canadian scheme intended for Mediterranean operations. For SAR to have some of these same brown vehicles, it would have been delivered to them already in that colour. The decision for Canada to participate in this theatre came late April 1943, with the requirement being one infantry division and one armoured brigade. Within days the brigade chosen was 1st Canadian Army Tank. The junior regiment Three Rivers was chosen to lead the landing while Ontario and Calgary Regiments were held in reserve. I wonder if part of the Husky training included repainting some Rams in the S.C.C.4 scheme. Once the full compliment of Shermans were on hand the Rams may have been passed on to other Canadians still training like SAR was during this period. Online diaries are available for many Canadian units, and looking into SAR is obvious, but the tank delivery unit might have something too. Stlll though that is a lot of pages to look through and no guarantees. . . https://wartimes.ca/canadiana-heritage-war-diary-reels/