Maritime Content

From my limited documentary sources, the Admiralty seem to have been experimenting with submarine camouflage from 1938. According to Confidential Book 03016/39 'Progress in Tactics' 1939 ed., trials in 1938 had confirmed that blue paint produced the best result in the Mediterranean and that International Black produced the least 'aura'. As part of an exercise, some submarines were painted olive green with a matt finish and although olive green had been proved to be the most suitable colour for operations off Singapore during January and February, it was thought that this may not be the best for later in the year. This was being investigated. After this, the next document I have that mentions green being used for the camouflage of submarines is Confidential Admiralty Fleet Order 2269/44 'Camouflage of H.M. Ships and Vessels - Standardisation' dated 12 October 1944. Under the heading 'Scheme J' Submarines on Foreign Stations could be painted as follows. "Paint black or very dark blue, grey or green at the discretion of Captain (S)." This can be found in subsequent Orders untill the end of the war. I have not seen a Standard of the shade(s) of green used for this purpose. Given that the green finish appears in CAFOs, it would seem that it was an official Admiralty scheme, but there seems to be no indication of its hue. Presumably there would have been a formula published for it somewhere at some time, possibly only locally on China Station and or later within the Eastern Fleet that has not yet come to light. The Navy had a disposition to mix its own paints as can be seen by various AFO and CAFOs, so the formula for PB.10 included in CAFO 2269/44 might hold good for the olive green colour but using different pigments. The RAF colour Dark Green that was an olive green hue was originally made using Yellow Ochre, Ultramarine Blue, Lithopone, a white pigment and Black.These pigments, or something like them can be found in the 1938 Rate Book of Naval Stores under the heading 'Pastes for Paints' where Admiralty Pattern 52P, Ochre AP 8P Blue, ultramarine, AP 110c Black and AP 104 Zinc Oxide, White are listed, the latter two materials being quoted as constituents of PB.10 in CAFO 2269/44 while the Black was used in a number of camouflage colours in use during 1944 such as A1.G5 also quoted in CAFO 2269/44. To make an olive green, it would presumably have been a case of working out the proportions of the Ochre, Ultramarine Blue, Black and White that gave the desired colour. If we go down the SCC avenue with regard to the hue of the olive green colour, a better suggestion might be SCC No.13. This was included in the original 1939 SCC range and is said to have been used in India by the British Army as an overall finish on various types of vehicle. It has been claimed to have been referred to colloquially as either 'jungle green' or 'dark green'. It was retained in BS 987C of 1942 and the Standard for this colour I have seen looked to my eye to be something like FS 34086, but was a bit darker. This might possibly be described as 'olive green', 'dark olive colour', 'slime green' or 'dark green'. It also has the virtue of having existed from at least 1939 when RN Submarines in the Far East are first described as being a shade of green. At the risk of initiating thread drift, the only mention I have come across of the Royal Navy using SCC colours to paint warships is related to a number of MTBs that were used along the Norwegian coast during what are described as 'lurking operations' from 1943 until the end of the war. Here the intention was to help conceal the vessels from aerial and surface observation whilst lying against the rocky shore of the fiords in wait for passing targets. The colours used originally were SCC 1A (a dark brown), 7 (a green) and 14 (black); but this was subsequently modified by dispensing with the black and introducing SCC 4 (a light brown) and 5 (described as being "Stone Colour", a lighter shade of brown). This scheme was introduced at the request of the Admiral commanding Orkneys & Shetlands during 1943 and to the best of my knowledge, never appeared in AFOs or CAFOs. I have no idea what the technical specification of the paint used for this purpose was.

Your Rodney is looking great. Stick with it and the effort will pay off in the end. I hear you as regards the paint scheme slowing down progress. I did a 1:500 H.M.S. Revenge in her 1918 dazzle scheme. Eight colours... Paint touch ups took an eternity!

The bridge (or part of it) painted and lightly weathered with my own interpretation of how the dazzle scheme looked like front and rear: and glued to the shelter deck: The dazzle scheme continues to frustrate me; it makes the build all so much harder and longer (partly due to my own incompetence 🤔). Anyway, it may not show in the photos but the scuttles have had a drop of Kristal Klear added to represent the glass ports (some of which were still drying as I took the pictures) and the bridge windows have very thin microscope slides glued behind for the same reason. I still need to paint the red and green patches on the bridge running light (?) housings and add the lights themselves......for another time. As always, one of the biggest issues is the constant displacement of pe parts once painted and fixed to the kit part. I lost count of the many times elements of the blast shield fell off during my repeated application of masking tape when applying the dazzle scheme! But.....another piece added. 276 hours completed.

This is an update after changing my image hosting thingy as Imgur seems to be broken, using Flickr and just about seem to have got it working….. I’ve been using silica crystals to dry out the and remove all moisture from the gels with some success. Now I have a new image hosting thingy I can update you all about my new project - the flower class corvette and German sub Dio, more to come!

Looking superb, i love the way you used casts for the main guns then supplemented it with all the etched details. The handrails look quite dark to me, not too far off the colour of the gun shield but it might just be caused by the direction of the light. Think if it was me i'd use the same colour as the hull for the main gun rails and keep the white or light grey for the turtle deck rails. It will look great whatever you decide !

Finishing work on the guns. First, I completed the ready use racks for the wing 6 pdrs. These sit inside the breakwater wings forward of the capstan bars Than I completed the assembly of the 12 pdr cradle and barrel. This turned out harder than I expected as the gun shield support bars clashed with the sight support, so a new solution had to be found and made, worked ok in the end. Apart from that and the double curvature of the breach shield (added from the etch sheet), it was very straightforward, love those castings Here is the completed gun on its mount with 10 solid shot shells in the ready use rack And sitting on its platform, now painted but not yet fixed in place. Note the canvas awning hooks added to the wing shield and from above, anchor bed cranes also fitted and that weird steering platform the small wheel. This picture includes two of the 6 open hatches, each with its own short ladder into the dark (which you can't see in that shot, sorry) I'm really debating in my mind the colour of the handrails and stanchions. The off-white I've used doesn't look right compared to the pictures. Take a look at these guys in their duffel coats on a 36-knotter TBD (HMS Sturgeon 1897. This ship is not Spithead Review, looks in use trim That's not white, but it's also not black, compare to the hatch. So, I'm thinking it may be the pale grey I've applied to the turtleback (and the back of the gun shields), thoughts anyone? Meanwhile, here are the full crew of Sturgeon credits to the Dreadnaught project, deck pictures are so rare Cheers Steve

The book on Tally-Ho was first published in 1974. Human memory is fallible and the recollections of those interviewed for the book some three decades or so after the events described should not be taken as gospel. In this case they can be compared with photographic and documentary evidence. Here is an early March 1944 photo showing Tally-Ho and the damage to her caused by the Japanese propeller. She is in bright sunlight. There is a clear demarcation line on the top of the ballast tank with what is below clearly darker than what is above. Her bottom appears to have been dark rather than light: This is confirmed by her docking reports D.495 which record that her bottom was BLACK at the time, both the protective and (outermost) anti-fouling coats, not "light green". To my eye her casing and conning tower do not look likely to have been "light green" either: The terms 'light' and 'dark' are subjective. The (genuine/contemporary) colour images and contemporary artwork I have seen of submarines in that theatre at that time (1944-45) show an olive green in use, often with a black pattern superimposed: For what it's worth I would describe the tone of the green as 'medium'. My guess is that it was one of the British Standard 987C camouflage colours, perhaps No.15 which would presumably have been readily available (but others may know more about that range and be better judges. @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies?).

The beam of a WW2 Battleship would be a problem due to average bottle neck size, so I think this idea of a bottle with a cut off bottom to insert it might be fraught with problems, plus it would always be noticeable even if you managed to do it. A normal display case might be a better option to protect your model and possibly a lot more suited to the subject in order to view it better anyway.

Jeff, you got me thinking. We never know for sure. It’s crazy, but why do we care? We could just pick a color. I mean what the hell? No one (or very few alive in this case) could really gainsay our choice. Yet we modelers want to get it right. Why? It just seems important and fitting—almost an homage. Good Lord. Who cares whether the Hood’s anti-fouling paint was red or black? We do. Now., about Arizona’s topside color at Pearl Harbor . . . Best, Jeff

Thank you for all the positive comments, appreciate your opinion on the figures choice! I ordered a while ago the signal flags, Eduard PE, hope to get them soon and add that final detail! marco

Hi nice model I must get around to making the ones i have in the stash but being an ex SRC devonport dockie .... i will get around to it one day cheers jerry

G'day Jeff, I wouldn't know either, and at 1/600 is unlikely to be a concern for me. 🙂 But I'm inclined to lean towards Jon's view - a wood handle and either a red head or red bracket, something along those lines, maybe red on the handle at the operator's end. Regards, Jeff (the other Jeff 🙂)

The model of HMS Storm in the Submarine Museum looks like it is painted in a colour similar to RAF sky and a mid green.

Nice preshades on the Mikasa. ⚓👍

Worth a mint those kits

Fantastic build

Truly a masterpiece. ⚓🙌

I can only echo what others have said...fantastic work on those guns, works of art. Stuart

Stunning work with great detail. Love the addition of the figures. Stuart

Tidy work there. The replacement funnel tops look rather nice. Stuart

It's not really surprising that the existing colour in 1944(?) differs from that described in 1939.

Thanks for the reply, Jamie. The book states this "slime green" was the standard camouflage color for that theater. Later in the book one officer who observed the damage to Tally Ho by a Japanese ship's propeller stated the light green color made it look like shredded lettuce. That doesn't sound like a "dark olive colour". I guess there is no official record of this color since it was mixed to fit the operational needs of the theater. I will try to improvise accordingly. Doug

What do I know Rob

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Foremast. I've replaced the bottom yard with brass. Just a coat of paint to go.